Natural weaning

[JBM]

Has anyone done this?
Pros cons? Experiences?

 

[Cortez]

Not personally, but friend does this. Or rather doesn't do anything at all, and has some seriously disordered horses. Now, I wouldn't let that dismiss the idea out of hand as I'm sure there are better ways to go about it. I always used to do a gradual weaning which caused minimal distress and worked for my situation.

Can you outline the process as you see it, there are various interpretations.

 

[JBM]

Not personally, but friend does this. Or rather doesn't do anything at all, and has some seriously disordered horses. Now, I wouldn't let that dismiss the idea out of hand as I'm sure there are better ways to go about it. I always used to do a gradual weaning which caused minimal distress and worked for my situation.

Can you outline the process as you see it, there are various interpretations.

I was just stumbled on it as never actually heard it before. But they just turn the mare and foal out with a herd and apparently at around 9-11 months they wean off
I have seen Cosmo a few times on the opposite side of the field from his mother with the other mare but he’s only 3 months and I did joke he was weaning himself! Was interesting to read that they will just wean themselves

 

[tda]

I think they will only be weaned naturally if the mare is expecting again

 

[dottylottie]

i personally wouldn’t, purely because i know of 2 sets of mare and (now grown up) foals with severe separation anxiety! i dare say it can be done properly, but i think in these cases the foals stayed with the owners too, so they never truly weaned in the separation sense.

 

[ycbm]

My friend did it but they still had to separate the mare and her yearling. I bought the yearling after a month of separation and he was absolutely fine. As TDA says, she didn't have a new foal so she had no reason to reject him.
.

 

[JBM]

Well see the mare penni is only 3 so no need to separate them unless I want to split my herd into pairs but they can get separation anxiety then anyway?
Just found it interesting! As Ive been reading that foals can get ulcers from weaning when done too early/fast

 

[JBM]

I think they will only be weaned naturally if the mare is expecting again

I’m not sure! I’ve been reading a few papers on it and said that when the mare wasn’t expecting the foal stayed with her longer but still weaned

 

[Gloi]

I bought a mare who was out with her 2yo. Though they said the filly was weaned when I got her home it was pretty obvious she had still been feeding the youngster. Apart from having an enormous udder when she came she didn't show any sign of missing her daughter

 

[ycbm]

Well see the mare penni is only 3 so no need to separate them unless I want to split my herd into pairs but they can get separation anxiety then anyway?
Just found it interesting! As Ive been reading that foals can get ulcers from weaning when done too early/fast

I think precipitate weaning is evil and totally unnecessary. Gradually extending time and distance apart is much kinder and works well from what I've seen.
.

 

[Cortez]

Well, SOME mares may wean their foals off, but many won't. My friend's "weanlings" are still suckling as three, five, six year olds, and their mothers have new foals at foot. In a natural herd situation it's actually usually the stallion that chases the 6 month olds/yearlings away from their mother, and they then form up into same-age groups loosely separate from the older breeding herd.

 

[Blanche]

I don’t know if you have seen this recent thread, it may be of interest to you.

Weaning webinar tonight

WBFSH are holding a webinar on foal weaning at 7pm tonight (Weds 26th July), if anyone is interested: https://www.wbfsh.com/news/webinar-on-weaning-of-foals

forums.horseandhound.co.uk

 

[Goldenstar]

I always did gradual weaning it’s easy if you have another horse it’s much kinder.

 

[twiggy2]

Not personally, but friend does this. Or rather doesn't do anything at all, and has some seriously disordered horses. Now, I wouldn't let that dismiss the idea out of hand as I'm sure there are better ways to go about it. I always used to do a gradual weaning which caused minimal distress and worked for my situation.

Can you outline the process as you see it, there are various interpretations.

Well see the mare penni is only 3 so no need to separate them unless I want to split my herd into pairs but they can get separation anxiety then anyway?
Just found it interesting! As Ive been reading that foals can get ulcers from weaning when done too early/fast

I will have to look for it but a recent study that I read stated that weaning under 7 months causes more stress as does prolonged weaning and have the mare and foal within earshot of each other makes it more stressful too.
The study also looked at weaning lambs and the same thibgs were found.
Years ago I helped out at a rising school and they had bred a few mares, they were all turned out together and noone had been properly weaned, the mares would be taken to work and the offspring would be visibly stressed whilst they were gone, the offspring were aged from 2 to 9 and 3 of the 7 would suckle from their dams qhen turned out.

 

[Caol Ila]

I did a fair bit of research on this when I had to wean my BOGOF.

The research says early and traumatic weanings are linked to adult separation anxiety and the development of stereotypies. My old horse was a fencewalker and could get separation anxiety, so I was keen to avoid inflicting those on my baby.

It says a mare will wean a foal herself once she's close to giving birth to the next one, but my mare was obviously not pregnant again. If she is dry that year, a youngster will comfort nurse for a long time. Didn't want that, either.

Some of the Best Practices I found were totally useless in my situation, such as having the mare and foal in adjacent pens and the foal with other youngsters of his own age.

The stuff I read suggested that 8/9 months is idea but any time after 6 months is alright. We ended up weaning at 7 months because he was running the mare down quite a lot.

My foal's owner got the idea that we should do practice separations when he was circa 5/6 months old. She would stay in the pen with the foal while I took the dam into the school, which was just around a corner and out of sight. She gave zero f*cks but the foal would lose his sh*t. I was increasingly unhappy about it because he seemed to get more stressed and upset the more we did it. I asked some experienced breeders on COTH if this was a good idea, and they said absolutely not. I told his owner we needed to stop, and we did.

Mum and son had been living in the livery mare herd since he was 6 weeks old. All those horses had become his aunties. Despite turning myself into knots with reading about best weaning practices, it turned out to be quite straightforward in our situation. We removed the dam from the livery mare herd and put her with the YO's horses, who happened to live on the other side of the farm, so out of sight and hearing. Foal was super chilled, called a couple times, but he was content. The mare wasn't very happy, and she was stressed and awkward to handle for about a month, but she eventually got over it. We gelded him a month later. Then he was slowly introduced to the livery gelding herd. Once he was integrated into the boys' herd and they were over one another (took about three months) she went back to the livery side of the yard and into the mare herd.

 

[Cortez]

We removed the dam from the livery mare herd and put her with the YO's horses, who happened to live on the other side of the farm, so out of sight and hearing. Foal was super chilled, called a couple times, but he was content. The mare wasn't very happy, and she was stressed and awkward to handle for about a month, but she eventually got over it. We gelded him a month later. Then he was slowly introduced to the livery gelding herd. Once he was integrated into the boys' herd and they were over one another (took about three months) she went back to the livery side of the yard and into the mare herd.

This is more or less the way I have always weaned my foals. The mares are usually more than happy to leave maternal duties behind, foals often don't even notice their mummy is absent. I had on average 12 - 20 foals per season, and had a retired broodmare who was a permanent "auntie" and stayed with younger foals year round.

 

[Caol Ila]

It was harrowing putting them into the livery herd but once the dust settled, it worked out very well. Caso got loads of aunties and an uncle, Hermosa got a break from parenting duties because he had other horses to annoy, and he learned how to horse. Made weaning super straightforward.

 

[Britestar]

I didn't wean my last foal as such.
They were out together during the day, and in different stables at night from about 8 months. Neither bothered at all, but he did suck until about 4 years old ( imagine, 16.2hh on his 15.2hh mother ).

Still best pals now at 31yrs and 15yrs respectively.

 

[HappyHackerK8]

I always did gradual weaning it’s easy if you have another horse it’s much kinder.

Could you briefly outline the process? What age did you start? Did you take mare away from the little herd? Do you have to make sure they can’t hear each other? How long for initially and over what time frame? Looking to do this come late November time as my mare and foal are spending longer and longer apart in the field as foal has two yearling play mates

 

[SEL]

I can tell you what a friend of mine does. She did have a stallion so bred a couple annually until two years ago

Mare & foal in their own paddock until about 6 months old (if bred more than one then they'd be in together)

Around the 6 month old mark or earlier she'd make sure they were sharing a fence line with her bigger herd so over fence sniffing and squealing could happen

Once that had all blown over mare and foal would go in with herd. Stiff drink in hand usually and only if she was there to supervise.

All the potential aunties would rock up and more sniffing and squealing but generally over pretty quickly

Aunties would take over babysitting and there were previous years babies to play with too

Give it a month or so and the dam would go over to her friend's place a few miles away. Baby had too many friends to notice. Dam back after a couple of months, in with herd and usually under saddle by then too. I never asked but I wonder if getting the mare back under saddle at her friends was giving them a job as a distraction.

It's the way I'd do it if I was ever mad enough to breed! @Caol Ila I think a herd is more natural for baby and dam just stressful for us.

I didn't own the microcob when her yearling filly was weaned but it was brutal for her. First lockdown and her owner's husband was dying so she needed to be sold urgently so mare & filly were immediately separated. Youngster settled fine with 2 grandfathers on the same property but the mum walked and walked and walked around her field. It broke my heart so stepped in and she came to me instead of heading off to a dealer

 

[HappyHackerK8]

I can tell you what a friend of mine does. She did have a stallion so bred a couple annually until two years ago

Mare & foal in their own paddock until about 6 months old (if bred more than one then they'd be in together)

Around the 6 month old mark or earlier she'd make sure they were sharing a fence line with her bigger herd so over fence sniffing and squealing could happen

Once that had all blown over mare and foal would go in with herd. Stiff drink in hand usually and only if she was there to supervise.

All the potential aunties would rock up and more sniffing and squealing but generally over pretty quickly

Aunties would take over babysitting and there were previous years babies to play with too

Give it a month or so and the dam would go over to her friend's place a few miles away. Baby had too many friends to notice. Dam back after a couple of months, in with herd and usually under saddle by then too. I never asked but I wonder if getting the mare back under saddle at her friends was giving them a job as a distraction.

It's the way I'd do it if I was ever mad enough to breed! @Caol Ila I think a herd is more natural for baby and dam just stressful for us.

I didn't own the microcob when her yearling filly was weaned but it was brutal for her. First lockdown and her owner's husband was dying so she needed to be sold urgently so mare & filly were immediately separated. Youngster settled fine with 2 grandfathers on the same property but the mum walked and walked and walked around her field. It broke my heart so stepped in and she came to me instead of heading off to a dealer

Thank you! This is really helpful! It’s what I’m doing so far really! We have two yearlings with mare and foal already so I can ramp up the next part once foal is 6m!

 

[seaofdreams]

I can tell you what a friend of mine does. She did have a stallion so bred a couple annually until two years ago

Mare & foal in their own paddock until about 6 months old (if bred more than one then they'd be in together)

Around the 6 month old mark or earlier she'd make sure they were sharing a fence line with her bigger herd so over fence sniffing and squealing could happen

Once that had all blown over mare and foal would go in with herd. Stiff drink in hand usually and only if she was there to supervise.

All the potential aunties would rock up and more sniffing and squealing but generally over pretty quickly

Aunties would take over babysitting and there were previous years babies to play with too

Give it a month or so and the dam would go over to her friend's place a few miles away. Baby had too many friends to notice. Dam back after a couple of months, in with herd and usually under saddle by then too. I never asked but I wonder if getting the mare back under saddle at her friends was giving them a job as a distraction.

It's the way I'd do it if I was ever mad enough to breed! @Caol Ila I think a herd is more natural for baby and dam just stressful for us.

I didn't own the microcob when her yearling filly was weaned but it was brutal for her. First lockdown and her owner's husband was dying so she needed to be sold urgently so mare & filly were immediately separated. Youngster settled fine with 2 grandfathers on the same property but the mum walked and walked and walked around her field. It broke my heart so stepped in and she came to me instead of heading off to a dealer

It was 16 years ago now but this was pretty much what we did and worked very well

 

[HappyHackerK8]

I’ll be keeping mare and foal, so at what point can they be near each other post weaning? We are only a small yard so completely separate isn’t a long term option

 

[Caol Ila]

I’ll be keeping mare and foal, so at what point can they be near each other post weaning? We are only a small yard so completely separate isn’t a long term option

Mine were able to share a fence line and go on hand walks together (her not being backed at the time) after circa 3 months. They’d whicker at one another, but we had no bother taking them their separate ways. My data is n = 1 so I have no idea what normal is.

 

[Cortez]

Minimum 8 weeks, but sometimes it'll need longer if the mare doesn't dry up quickly. She's more likely to stop milking if they can’t see or hear each other, but I often kept them next to each other with no problem. Many seasoned mares were quite glad to be rid of their little brats TBH

 

[HappyHackerK8]

Minimum 8 weeks, but sometimes it'll need longer if the mare doesn't dry up quickly. She's less likely to stop milking if they can't see or hear each other, but I often kept them next to each other with no problem. Many seasoned mares were quite glad to be rid of their little brats TBH

Great, any other hints or tips to help it go smoothly would be much appreciated

 

[HappyHackerK8]

Mine were able to share a fence line and go on hand walks together (her not being backed at the time) after circa 3 months. They’d whicker at one another, but we had no bother taking them their separate ways. My data is n = 1 so I have no idea what normal is.

What weaning process did you use? Cold turkey or soft weaning? I’m still very undecided on which is best but prepared for both lol…

 

[southerncomfort]

My mini shetland's last foal was taken off her just before she went through the sale ring (before i owned her).

I don't think she's ever forgiven humans for that particular trauma.

 

[Cortez]

Great, any other hints or tips to help it go smoothly would be much appreciated

Sorry, that should be “MORE likely to stop milking in they can’t see or hear each other”. Only other advice is that they are all different and some will be less (or more) distressed than others, some won’t be bothered at all; some foals will be fine whilst their mothers will be distraught, and vice versa, sometimes both will be unbothered.

 

[Caol Ila]

What weaning process did you use? Cold turkey or soft weaning? I’m still very undecided on which is best but prepared for both lol…

I did a fair bit of research on this when I had to wean my BOGOF.

The research says early and traumatic weanings are linked to adult separation anxiety and the development of stereotypies. My old horse was a fencewalker and could get separation anxiety, so I was keen to avoid inflicting those on my baby.

It says a mare will wean a foal herself once she's close to giving birth to the next one, but my mare was obviously not pregnant again. If she is dry that year, a youngster will comfort nurse for a long time. Didn't want that, either.

Some of the Best Practices I found were totally useless in my situation, such as having the mare and foal in adjacent pens and the foal with other youngsters of his own age.

The stuff I read suggested that 8/9 months is idea but any time after 6 months is alright. We ended up weaning at 7 months because he was running the mare down quite a lot.

My foal's owner got the idea that we should do practice separations when he was circa 5/6 months old. She would stay in the pen with the foal while I took the dam into the school, which was just around a corner and out of sight. She gave zero f*cks but the foal would lose his sh*t. I was increasingly unhappy about it because he seemed to get more stressed and upset the more we did it. I asked some experienced breeders on COTH if this was a good idea, and they said absolutely not. I told his owner we needed to stop, and we did.

Mum and son had been living in the livery mare herd since he was 6 weeks old. All those horses had become his aunties. Despite turning myself into knots with reading about best weaning practices, it turned out to be quite straightforward in our situation. We removed the dam from the livery mare herd and put her with the YO's horses, who happened to live on the other side of the farm, so out of sight and hearing. Foal was super chilled, called a couple times, but he was content. The mare wasn't very happy, and she was stressed and awkward to handle for about a month, but she eventually got over it. We gelded him a month later. Then he was slowly introduced to the livery gelding herd. Once he was integrated into the boys' herd and they were over one another (took about three months) she went back to the livery side of the yard and into the mare herd.

What weaning process did you use? Cold turkey or soft weaning? I’m still very undecided on which is best but prepared for both lol…

See my above post from earlier in this thread.