Navicular Disease, barefoot triming and other options left

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Cassidy66

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Hi

My 10 year old WB was diagnosed with Navicular Disease 3 years ago and has since been treated with Tildren which worked twice, then he had a neurectomy on both feet. He has basically been on and off lame since then, sound for a couple of months and then unsound (usually only mildly lame) for 3 or 4 months. I have kind of lost track since it has been going on so long. Lets put it this way he has defintely been off work more than he has been rideable. When he is back in work he is only hacked out, nothing major.

He has now been lame for 2 months by varying degrees. Sometimes hardly noticeable other times much more so but never drastically lame where he is hobbling about.

I am having the vet out this week to find out if there is anything more that can be done and I have been looking into other peoples experiences. Things that seem to come up a lot is barefoot trimming (seems quite a controversial issue) and also the use of magnetic therapy.

Are these both worth a try (not sure if vet would be able to recommend these options)? We are at the last chance saloon here and I really dread having to make a decision to have him PTS (primarily because he is a lovely chap and even when he is on box rest he is an absolute doll and he is very happy in himself), but its a really expensive business owning a horse and theres only so much money you can throw at trying get him sound.

So is it worth trying barefoot? I just worry that he has quite flat feet. How much of a problem would this be? I am based in Yorkshire and the only DEAP that I can locate is Sophie Beale. Has anyone tried her? Also is it worth putting magnetics overreach boots on him when he is stabled? I would love to hear anyones views on this issue. I have never come across a horse that has gone barefoot, so I dont know too much about it and the sucess rates.

Apologies for the long post, but this issue has been swirling about it my head for the last few weeks and I just want to make sure that I have done everything that I can for him.

Cassidy
 
My horse was diagnosed as having navicular disease this year (holes in navicular bone).

My vet has basically written him off. I have gone down the barefoot route, and what i have found very interesting is how his heels are spreading and opening up more, he is actually sound now, but obviously only time will tell.

One of the best articles of have read, and i would recommend you read it, its facinating is by Pete Ramey www.hoofrehab.com and its called 'Digging for the truth about Navicular Syndrome'.

I honestly believe that going barefoot is the only way to eventually get navicular horses sound.
 
If you've tried all those other options what do you have to lose?

I have 2 horses with navicular and both are now sound without their shoes, one of them is a TB and I have another Tb who works barefoot too. His feet are the shape they are now because he's worn shoes for (i'm guessing here that he's had a pretty normal upbringing) the last 5 or 6 years, once the shoes come off they will change dramatically. There are some people on here that are in your area.
http://www.uknhcp.org/ukpractitioners.html

Some good rehab stories here too
http://www.rockleyfarm.co.uk/
 
if lyou ook in recent posts on stable yard i asked for peoples opinions and bare foot and most were good experiences all though with his feet being quite flat could be a problem?
 
Cassidy, in answer to your question, is it worth trying barefoot? Yes.
And regarding Sophie Beale, I don't know her but she is trained by KC LaPierre in the same method as my trimmer and has a DAEP qualification, so I would have every confidence that if your horse can be helped in this way she would be the right person to contact.

My horse is a success story having been rehabilitated from navicular at the point of being put to sleep. She is ridden most days, competes and wins. Her feet are rock solid and we dispensed with hoof boots a long time ago. However boots will be your first stage if you go down this route with a horse that has remedial issues.

I wouldn't like to say it would definitely work for your horse. If he has been de-nerved and is still lame, that's not promising, but before you give up, it would certainly be worth trying a structured barefoot programme under a DAEP because there are so many success stories and if it doesn't work out then at least you know you did everything you could and won't be left wondering if things could have been different.
 
Huge sympathies for you.

Flat feet huge can of worms. In my experience with a change in management (diet, exercise etc) these can be greatly improved. Not many vets have experience of this so when they see it happen they are usually gob smacked.

Denerving is very controversial. Not suitable for all horses - it will never work for a percentage and for others it will only work partially.

Get in contact with Rockley Farm as others have suggested. You have nothing to lose and a life to save.
 
Hi - firstly I am so sorry about your lad - I am in a similar position and know how heartbreaking it can be.

I tried barefoot with my lad and it didn't work for him. He had xrays and the vet and farrier devised a shoeing plan for him that is currently suiting him just fine and he is better than he has ever been.

Barefoot does work for a lot of horses, especially those with navicular, so I am not saying don't try it, but I would suggest speaking to a farrier as well. A farrier will be able to trim the same way as a barefoot trimmer and IMO will maybe able to suggest more treatment options than a barefoot trimmer.

If you decide to go down the barefoot route then you might want to invest in some boots for him so he is comfortable in the transition period.

Good luck and let us know how you get on.
 
Barefoot isn't a "trimming" issue, especially with navicular. You need to focus heavily on the diet, the work levels and the environment your horse lives in if he is going to come sound through working without shoes. People above have pointed to the right places for information. Flat feet are no barrier, they will change very quickly if you get the rest right. If you want to see photos of how flat my horses feet were and how quickly they developed concavity, PM me.

Done right, it has a very high success rate, so good luck!
 
QR - barefoot is simply balancing the hoof by trimming it.

The horses diet, workload and enviroment are issues that would be taken into consideration by the owner and a farrier, not just a barefoot trimmer.
 
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QR - barefoot is simply balancing the hoof by trimming it.

The horses diet, workload and enviroment are issues that would be taken into consideration by the owner and a farrier, not just a barefoot trimmer.

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Not quite
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Barefoot might actually mean deliberately allowing the horse to grow an "unbalanced" foot because that's what it needs in order to cope with a skeletal or muscular problem higher up in its body. I know of three horses who were unsound in shoes who have grown fairly extreme imbalances barefoot and are now sound as long as no-one tries to make their feet "look" balanced.

Unfortunately for barefoot owners (and a major benefit of shoes) barefoot horses are generally more obviously affected, (measured by sensitivity of the feet to rough surfaces) by imbalanced diet, environment and workload than shod horses. An advisor to the owner of a barefoot horse might need to know in more depth about these aspects of keeping the horse than they do for a shod one, if they are to keep the horse sound. This is especially the case for a rehab, which by definition has already proved that it has problem feet.

There are, of course, always exceptions to any generalisation such as those I have made here.

Good luck QR, I do hope that you are able to resolve your horse's issues.
 
Thanks for all you very interesting posts. I will be speaking to my vet and farrier in the next week and will definitely take the barefoot option further. I have read all the articles posted and it has provided much food for thought. I should add that my horse has had issues with laminitis this year (too much weight due to not working). Solved by moving to a paddock with a lot less grass, therefore he is being fed blue chip lami light to make sure he gets a balanced diet without the weight gain.

Can anyone give me a rough idea of the cost of going the barefoot route?

Many thanks fort all your replies

Cassidy
 
A typical UKNHCP trimmer will charge you £40-50 a visit but this is NOT for just "a trim" it is to give you help and guidance through the entire process of taking your horse barefoot. You might have some trouble sourcing one in your area with time to take you on though - there simply aren't enough of them yet.

You may need to consider that since your horse has already shown some grass sugar sensitivity, it is fairly likely that you will need to remove him from grass during daylight hours in the spring and summer and autumn if you are to be successful taking him barefoot. You may not have to, but it would be better to be prepared early in case he goes well during the winter but becomes footie in the spring. People mistake it for not coping with harder ground or being sore due to an increase in work when there is more light, but it's usually the grass sugars.

The crucial thing with your rehab is to get him landing heel first. You may need some help achieving that, and I do hope that you can find the help you need from your farrier/vet or someone who has done this before. You will also find uknhcp.myfastforum.org very supportive with several people who can share their experience with you.

Good luck, I do hope that you can get your horse back on four good feet again.
 
I don't know whereabouts in Yorkshire you are but my trimmers Ross and Mel Barker are in Barnsley but do cover a wide area and might be able to come out to you. They're very experienced and I'd highly recommend them. This is their website:

http://www.progressivehorse.co.uk/

They charge £35 for one horse, or £30 each for three or more. Give them a ring. I haven't regretted taking any of my horses barefoot - they are all happier, healthier and sounder than they've ever been.
 
Thanks for your suggestions. My horse has been moved into the starvation paddock and just fed hay for most of this year after he started with lami. He spent a brief period in another field where the grass was slightly better, but not by much and it set him off again, so he will remain in the starvation paddock from now on to restrict his grass intake. Honestly I was so naive about laminitus before all this as I thought it only affected really overweight ponies. I have totally learnt my lesson on that one this year.

Thanks for all your help.
 
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A typical UKNHCP trimmer will charge you £40-50 a visit

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Perhaps I should add that there are not enough UKNHCP trimmers in the country and that they are all in demand with as much work as they can handle. This fee is therefore very often to deal with the difficult cases of horses who are lame before the shoes are taken off, or still lame after the owner has tried having the horse with no shoes on. And worth every penny to the owner to see a horse come sound if their trimmers,farriers and vets have failed to achieve that.
 
Sorry to butt in and ask BUT on this subject of barefoot have any of you had problems with judges when showing your horses??
I have a heavyweight hunter although he is a warmblood and when I bought him he was never shod as they found he went unlevel with metal shoes, my farrier shod him with balance shoes and all was fine and I never had a problem, my farrier was off with a sore back and a stand in farrier convinced me to try Epona rubber shoes which where brilliant on him but didn't last more than 3 to 4 weeks a set and as he has slow growing hooves despite trying various remedies proved no use so we put him back on balance shoes and I couldn't get him sound!!
Shoes off sound, rubber shoes on sound BUT SHB GB do frown on them and its even in there handbook which I found understandable but most unfair, I contacted them and they said that I could do sport horse classes with his rubber wellies on but not Heavy Weight Hunter classes or that I could do them but when it came to final placings and they had to choose between my horse and a "normal" shod horse it would be placed above mine, this has happened and is annoying!
As he goes better with out shoes what do you think would happen in classes there???
Sorry to bleat on but can't seem to get an answer from anyone and would happily leave him barefoot so i could show him as he does seem to prefer it and goes just aswell if he was in his rubbers! HELP
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I think that whether the rule book says it or not, some judges will mark you down. Some will do it deliberately, assuming that he has a foot problem. Some will not even know that they have been subconsciously affected. If you are deadly serious about showing, you'd want shoes on :-((

I have personally been marked down by a dressage judge at an affiliated horse trials for not having shoes, she wrote it on the top of the form.
 
That's the most perverse bit of inverse logic I have heard for a long time!

Shoes mask lameness. A horse with no shoes that is moving freely is obviously sound!
 
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Sorry to butt in and ask BUT on this subject of barefoot have any of you had problems with judges when showing your horses??
I have a heavyweight hunter although he is a warmblood and when I bought him he was never shod as they found he went unlevel with metal shoes, my farrier shod him with balance shoes and all was fine and I never had a problem, my farrier was off with a sore back and a stand in farrier convinced me to try Epona rubber shoes which where brilliant on him but didn't last more than 3 to 4 weeks a set and as he has slow growing hooves despite trying various remedies proved no use so we put him back on balance shoes and I couldn't get him sound!!
Shoes off sound, rubber shoes on sound BUT SHB GB do frown on them and its even in there handbook which I found understandable but most unfair, I contacted them and they said that I could do sport horse classes with his rubber wellies on but not Heavy Weight Hunter classes or that I could do them but when it came to final placings and they had to choose between my horse and a "normal" shod horse it would be placed above mine, this has happened and is annoying!
As he goes better with out shoes what do you think would happen in classes there???
Sorry to bleat on but can't seem to get an answer from anyone and would happily leave him barefoot so i could show him as he does seem to prefer it and goes just aswell if he was in his rubbers! HELP
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I think that's a disgrace quite frankly. Why should you be marked down for simply not having shoes? The mind boggles. Well done you for trying to stand your ground - if your horse is happy and sounder without shoes then dig in your heels and keep the shoes off. If you get moved down the line in a class because of being barefoot demand the judge explains their reasoning. If you stick to your guns and have a happy, healthy sound horse then you might have a chance of changing peoples stuck in a rut views.
 

Back to the original post... I got a rescue horse, who was hopping lame, with all sorts of serious foot problems. Originally I thought the kindest thing to do would be PTS.. However, shoes removed and regularly trimmed by farrier and 10 months on he has made a remarkable recovery.

It will prob take a year - 18 months for the feet to fully adjust, my boys feet are still changing. I didnt use hoof boots as he wasn't in work and his feet are rock hard naturally.

but just removing the shoes is not enough... you need to get him moving around, if he doesnt live out i would really recommend turning him out for a few months this keeps them moving and gets the circulation going and was definitely the turning point in my boys recovery.
I found stable wraps to be just as effective as magnetic wraps after trying both.. avoid bandaging though as you don't want to mess with the lower leg circulation even more. Try no bute or devils claw to keep him comfortable and encourage movement. Agree with the other posts, diet is crucial, if you can get him feeling perky then he will be more willing to run around and get the blood moving.

wish you luck, whatever you decide
 
If my horse was perfectly sound and with not a trip or stumble and had that remark on a Dressage Test I would make a fuss. The judge is there to judge the test as she sees it and as long as you are keeping to the rules of the class what business is it of the judge as to what tack or shoes, or lack of shoes the competitior has. Cripes, some horses have all sorts of pads, remedial shooeing, etc. Would that judge make the same comment for that?

As far as the OP is concerned, it really depends upon what the rule book says, and ultimately up tot he individual judge too. Mine was shown without shoes, and I thought the judge was a little startled, when he noticed but it didn't affect the placing. My horse's feet were so hard that on concrete he sounded as though he had shoes on, and very often people just didn't notice whether he had shoes on or not. I had, however, looked through the society rule book which stated "horses may be shown shod or unshod." Which I think was really to allow youngstock older than yearlings to have shoes, but in my case it worked in the opposite way.
 
Hi, just came across your post in the search. There appears to be quite a lot of positive feed back regarding barefoot on here which has suprised me to be honest.

I have two horses barefoot and have been for 3+ yrs. They are neither of them field ornaments but easily cover 50 miles a week each hacking on roads, as a minimum as well as school work.

Neither had any real problem before going barefoot, apart from misshapen and brittle hoves which were always filed and trimmed by the farrier into a nice shape when they were shod. So it was only just before the farrier came that you noticed things were not right before they were shod again.


Anyway, since going barefoot thier feet are stronger and practically self maintaining. I struggle to give them enough roadwork to ware the feet down. I initially thought that thier feet would wear out but this is far from the case.

One thing we don't do is ever trim anything off the hoof wall as this weakens the hoof and causes flares etc. We balance the foot, and put in a mustang roll and thats about it. Basically we only trim where a hoof would naturaly wear.

The is apparently a much improved blood supply and circulation when the frog is in contact with the ground which is why chronically lame horses improve so much.

The thing about barefoot is give it time. Its hard seeing a horse stumble and look foot sore when the shoes initially come off but just when you think it will never work the hoves start to harden and thing improve rapidly. Don't weaken and put shoes back on, even though it looks cruel, things improve and the feet become much healthier and stronger. Good Luck.
 
I've just brought this thread up on a search too. My mare has been diagnosed today as having 'pre-navicular' changes. She's been barefoot for the last 5 years, in work and loving being 'free in the feet' - much better than in shoes. Vet suggests that problems are because she is barefoot ... I'm inclined to disagree, and I haven't yet spoken to my farrier but I know he will disagree with vet.

I'm utterly desolate - she's also lame in both hind legs, but not enough to work up and find anything. Anyone any ideas?
 
Well if its anything to go by i was told to have my horse pts last year with navicular, saying he would never be sound enough to work.

I did my own research and with my farrier, he is now barefoot and SOUND!!

He is back in work, we did a 2half hour hack the other day, with lots of canters etc and he was great!

I was told to operate, various expensive drugs etc.

Let nature work, it can sometimes, just people always want to interfere.
 
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I've just brought this thread up on a search too. My mare has been diagnosed today as having 'pre-navicular' changes. She's been barefoot for the last 5 years, in work and loving being 'free in the feet' - much better than in shoes. Vet suggests that problems are because she is barefoot ... I'm inclined to disagree, and I haven't yet spoken to my farrier but I know he will disagree with vet.

I'm utterly desolate - she's also lame in both hind legs, but not enough to work up and find anything. Anyone any ideas?

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So sorry to hear this
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One thing is absolutely certain - putting shoes back on will not help in any way... the fact that your vet is blaming her being barefoot would make me distrust anything this vet said.

How has he diagnosed 'pre-navicular' changes - x-rays or just nerve blocks? Could the lameness behind be causing the lameness in front? Anything that alters the natural gait can cause associated foot pain. Has anything changed recently in her diet or management?
 
my horse has been diagnosed with navicular, she is now sound in eggbars and wedges. she was barefoot a couple years ago but it didnt work she has thin soles and couldnt cope without boots even after 9 months. we couldnt get boots to stay on her as she toes in and they all twisted - we tried 3 different types and all twisted -so went into shoes and was more comfortable immediatley. Then diagnosed with navicular and was immediatley sound in eggbars with wedges. She has low heels (even when barefoot) so the wedges obviously relieve pressure.
If she ever goes unsound and i cant leep her sound i may consider barefoot as a last option. but only then as we already tried it and wasnt really great for mine
 
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