Navicular - shoeing, barefoot or magnets?

diamonddogs

diamonddogs

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I'm hoping to be getting a loan horse that's just being diagnosed with navicular syndrome. Owner's vet suggested bioflow boots or corrective shoeing.

I've been researching and my head's spinning! It looks like we can manage her condition but I'm interested in your experiences with:

a) heart or egg bar shoes?
b) barefoot trimming?
c) magnetic bell boots or tendon wraps?

From what I'm reading, each treatment has shown miraculous results!

JFTR she was only diagnosed a few weeks ago, isn't on any treatment or medication and is sound in walk and trot at the moment. She's a 10yo Connie X, living on grass and hay (stabled at night), with a handful each of Happy Hoof and Pasture Mix and is doing perhaps a little too well!
 
I had a loan horse around 10 yrs ago who was diagnosed with navicular - at the time she had heart bar shoes fitted. From memory she went quite lame when they were fitted and was put in foal by her owner. She threw a fab colt, came back into work and was sold on as a happy hack where she lived out the rest of her days.
 
I'm loaning her with a view to buy because I'm not as young as I was and the confidence is not good, and don't want a whizzy competition horse, just someone I can pootle around on, and if she's off the road now and again it's not an issue, as I'll be just as happy grooming her and painting her nails.

Obviously I have to watch the pennies, so the most cost effective, successful treatment what I need.

I'm just so confused now with everything I've been reading, and honest opinions are what I need just now.

And I know she'll make a lovely mum!
 
i have a dales with navicular. He is fitted with NBS and regular shoeing every 6 weeks. No trotting on roads, and watch the ground for being hard in summer. Apart from that, he manages fine and won 3 times ridden m and m last year!!!!
 
A good farrier can work wonders with navicular. Personally I would go with the shoes as Ive seen some very good results with those. Your farrier ought to request xrays before he starts to trim or fit any sort of corrective shoe. Barefoot trimming is unregulated and can cripple even the best horse in five minutes and there really is no valid science to suggest that magnetic boots do anything at all.

Bear in mind you will probably have insurance problems if you do go ahead and buy this horse.
 
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Barefoot trimming is unregulated and can cripple even the best horse in five minutes...

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To some extent this is true, but if you look for a DAEP qualified podiatrist you will be in the best possible hands. From experience, this is the route I would take if I were in your situation.

You will find the nearest DAEP to Badiddlyboing Odawidaho (!) here:

http://www.aepsupplies.co.uk/index.cfm?sid=21583&pid=330568
 
Thanks for that - bookmarked!

(Warwickshire actually!
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my mare has ringbone and changes to her fetlock joints. she went barefoot March 07 as my 2 farriers and vert could not keep her sound with any type of shoeing.
Shes 100% sound and can now be jumped. she trots on roads everything.
My trimmer has done numerous courses and has been trimming for a lot of years, she has done exams etc.

she took on a navicular case which was due to be put down. he came sound and was able to start riding, dressage and jumping.

dont write off barefoot, best thing is if this is what you are considering read up on it (i can recommend 2 books that i was recommended, they really help me put it all into perspective) also find a good trimmer.

whereabouts are you?
 
Oooh - simultaneous posts!

Warwickshire! What are the books please? I'd like to have a proper read-up as half the stuff on the net isn't detailed enough, and a lot of the writers have an agenda. I've heard about some spectacular results, but it's good to read about the results from people you "know" isn't it.

I like the idea of barefoot in principle, and not just for the navi, but I don't know enough about it to make an informed decision, as there seems to be no middle ground - people are for it or against it.

I'm also very open-minded about alternative therapies (more things in heaven and earth and all that), but obviously don't want to waste money on snake oil and hokum.

Which is why I'm asking on good ole HHO!

Thanks everybody for your input - keep the opinions rolling in please!
 
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Horse-Owners-Gui...3380&sr=8-5
http://www.jaimejackson.com/ Jaime's website
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Making-Natural-H...3428&sr=1-1
http://www.hoofrehab.com/ Pete's website
these books are great, not badly priced from amazon but i regularly go back to mine for reference - they helped me make the decision. my trimmer told me to look into it first as she didnt want me to think she was kind of forcing me into it.
it really is a lifestyle you have to adapt to make it work right not just a quick fix. i know people who havent thought it through and gone back to shoes within 3 weeks.

the barefoot is great - all mine are barefoot now (4). initially i went barefoot with my WB as she had a skin condition and it was annoying her and to relieve the stress she was stamping so much you couldnt see the shoe just the clench at the toe, she had the shoes of and never looked back.

now im not meaning this is a nasty way at all but there are some people on here that dislike barefoot. personally when it comes to problems with navicular i can see nothing worse than putting the natural balance shoes on - how can a square shoe be put on a foot that doesnt have sqaure bones in it?
 
we have a livery whos mare has navicular, she was fairly crippled when first diagnosed but it is well managed now and she has been sound for 3 years.

She has normal shoes, but her toes are taken back and the front of the shoe is rolled.

She has magnetic bell boots on in the summer and stable bandages in the winter to increase circulation to the lower part of her leg - poor circulation can make it worse.

She is kept reasonable slim so no extra weight is going down through her legs, and has a weight limit for her riders for the same reason.

Was she diagnosed with xrays/scans? My vet seems to think that the diagnosis of navicualr syndrome is often without any investigation being done, so could actually be a different problem associated in the lower limb...
 
Thanks for the links, daisy - very helpful!

Yes, she's had scans so I think we can accept navi rather than some random condition (from an insurance POV this is a double edged sword - on the one hand we have a pre-existing condition, but on the other hand all the expensive stuff's been done, so it's just management now, I hope). At least we know what we're dealing with.

Inchy, you mentioned the mare being kept slim - this is a slight concern I've got with Kelly. She's got a lovely tum on her, which is great given the time of year, but I'm slightly bothered about weight maintenance come spring, specially of she can only be ridden in walk. I've been out of the game a long time now, and had no experience of good grass in January! Will the grass get even better in spring, or just remain as it is now? Maybe this is a question I should ask the farmer where she's going to be kept...

Oh well, I've got 2-3 months to decide on what to do with her feet before I need to start worrying about her weight. Who knows? I might even get her sound by spring then I needn't worry about exercise!

I didn't say - Kelly's unshod at the moment. Will this help the transition period if I take the barefoot route? Her feet look very nice and strong...
 
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... I didn't say - Kelly's unshod at the moment. Will this help the transition period if I take the barefoot route? Her feet look very nice and strong...

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That's interesting, I was assuming she was shod as navicular syndrome, which is a bit of a blanket term, is so often a result of bad shoeing putting stresses where they shouldn't be within the foot. Are you sure it's not navicular disease, as this affects the navicular bone which creates friction on the DDFT? Either way, I'd still choose barefoot. The trim in itself is all about restoring correct foot balance, this is the difference between barefoot and unshod.

Re-reading your original post, you say she is currently sound in walk and trot, so I'm a bit confused at how the diagnosis was arrived at.
 
Sorry - she went lame, which led to the diagnosis. I'm a bit fuzzy as to how she became sound again, because her owner had bute but didn't say whether she used it or not. She tried to bring her back into work but cantering triggered the lameness again. AFAIK she's been off work for a month or so now, and trots up fine. Riding in trot and walk is fine, but faster work sets her off again.

Her shoes were removed because she was turned away - the fact she's unshod isn't to do with the navi.

I have to admit I'm leaning a bit towards magnets and barefoot at the moment, as I've always been a great believer in nature knows best, but being a barefoot dunce I need to do a lot more research before I decide, because from what I understand it's a big commitment and you have to be in for the long haul, even for a sound horse, there being a lot more to it than just taking the shoes off.

Her owner definitely said "syndrome", not "disease".
 
keep her shoes off D. the worst thing you can do is put shoes on her then decide you want to have her barefoot. read up on those books i mentioned then you will realise why i say kee the shoes off.
 

Either way, I'd still choose barefoot. The trim in itself is all about restoring correct foot balance, this is the difference between barefoot and unshod.


Sorry, I am a bit confused at this. Are you saying that a good farrier can't balance a hoof and only an EP can?

I am also slightly concerned that you are saying to def go barefoot without knowing the whole story about the horse in question.

I am all for going barefoot IF it is the right thing to do for the horse and the owner ( as it is the owner/carer who will have to put the work in to transition properly) but there are times when a horse needs to be shod correctly and for support as any good EP will admit.
 
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putting the natural balance shoes on - how can a square shoe be put on a foot that doesnt have sqaure bones in it?

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it speeds up break over and simply provides more area for breakover, (thus reducing pressure at the point of breakover!) plenty of proven science behind them, and lots of sounder horses with them on.
however, no, they dont suit all horses. mainly, i guess, as physiology isnt an exact science!

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*ducks and runs for cover, shouting some of my horses arent shod either!!*
 
have only knowen one horse with navi to go barefoot and it did nothing for him (it was a top dog trimmer which promised the owners everything) have knowen several horses to stay shod and have verygd results usually Nb shoes and poss pads. vets would be the best person to talk to as they know the facts of this horses condition, every horse is different and shgould be treated as such just because something works for one does not mean it will work for another and vice versa. as said before good farriers can do wounders after all they did train for near 5 years on it!!! also might be worth talking to owner as theymay have veiws one way or the other. gd luck
 
QR- I've not fully read all the replies so apologies if I'm repeating anything. My mum's QH mare was diagnosed with a cyst on the navicular bone of her off fore, "navicular" and arthritis by the vet and then he washed his hands of her with no advice, recommendations or follow up so I've been muddling through managing her the best I can. I can only tell you what I do and I hope it helps you a little.

She started on 1/3 of danolin a day and is now on 1 a day. I tried various joint supplements but settled on Cortaflex (currently on 30 days of Cortaflex HA) and mint (theory that it can increase blood flow to foot and good in laminitics?). She also get Equimmins Omega Diamond supplement. She's a very good doer too so only gets a handful of hi-fi to get her pills and potions.

I use the equilibrium magnetic back pad (more for arthritis than navic) and their magnetic stables chaps and I've found they make a big difference. I was looking into magnetic O/R boots but had been recommended and magnetic wrist band that you can fasten around the pastern and this has good reports for navic horses. I think it was mrussell on here that recommended it and posted the link; perhaps worth PM'ing her if she doesn't reply on this thread.

My mare was only shod in front when my mum bought her but due to my farrier moving areas I was left high and dry and unfortunately had to use the services of someone who turned out to be a not very good farrier to put it mildly. He insisted on shoeing all around saying that her heels were collapsing behind? Despite my leaning over his shoulder questioning every more he made and telling him what I wanted (paranoid, annoying owner - me??) he still left her toe long with no heel and the change to the HPA caused ligament damage (diagnosed and confirmed by vet). The next farrier we used shod her NB; I think this was too big a change in the other direction and she was lame for a while recovering from this. NB didn't suit her at all but that's not to say it wouldn't help another horse with navic, the theory tends to be to keep the toe shorter and roll it. You can roll the toe in unshod horses too ("mustang roll") but various schools of through on this.

(I really like this website:
http://www.farrier-giles.co.uk/farriery.htm)

Finally found current farrier who shod her wide webbed and rolled toes. She was still a bit "off" last Sep so after reading into "barefoot" I got an EP out. I have to say I think it was the biggest waste of money (and it was a lot of money for a trim). I'd read the "miracles" of navic horses coming sound by going "barefoot" so was clutching at straws. She was incredibly sore going barefoot and it's my opinion that the EP trimmed her far too short (she has feet typical of her breed ie tiny).

I now have her "unshod" and trimmed by the farrier, after all he spent at least 4yrs training and has a recognised and regulated qualifcation unlike EPs or "trimmers". I got the "head honcho" farrier out the last time to see if he would recommend remedial shoeing, heartbars etc or what and he said to stick with keeping her unshod but regular trims (she's done every 6wks) to keep her feet balanced. After the farrier was out (first time after EP - never been enough foot to rebalance until start of Dec from trim in Sep) she's been moving much better and is much happier, really striding out. I still have high hopes of her coming back into work as a light hack as she's happy in herself.

From the sounds of things you've been lucky that you know what you are entering into. Mum didn't get this mare vetted before she bought her and I'm paying the price now. It sounds like you have a supportive vet and I'd work with them as much as you can. I'd also speak to the farrier you intend to use. I have to say if she's unshod just now I'd leave her that way as long as she is happy and able to cope with the work load.

Good Luck and I hope it works out for you and your new horse
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Cytek shoes and magnetic-uk bands worked for my horse...he was diagnosed 5 years ago aged 11 and is still fit and well now. If I try to go back to rim shoes he goes lame in under 14 days.
 
I'd be taking the shoes off (though still trimming sympathetically and carefully), and there'd be no harm in using magnets as well I suppose.

There are numerous studies that show that long term, taking the shoes off is the most beneficial thing you can do for Navicular horses.
Using heart/egg bar shoes usually helps in the very short term, but you end up crushing the horn tubules in the heel and exacerbating the problem even more. It's a slippery slope from then on in, IMO.
 
Going back to the weight issue, any leg problem can be worsened by being a bit on the tubby side.

The mare at my yard is just used for hacking, so we have to control her weight through diet rather than exercise. In the winter when grass isn't so much of a problem she has a reasonable amount of grazing and at night in her stable she has a smallish hay net but we put three haynets inside each other so it takes her forever to eat it.

In the summer we have her on a fairly bare field with the other fatties and a few sheep. If for some reason she has to go out on lots of grass she wears a grazing mask.

Although she has little grass - she has 4 scoops of dengie healthy hoof and a vit/min supplement everyday to ensure she still gets everything she needs.
 
QR - haven't read any replies so I am probably duplicating.

This horse may well do what you want, equally it may turn out to be a VERY expensive pet.

Before you consider taking this horse on make sure you get a full vets report from the current owner with results from nerve blocks, xrays and mri if done. Then talk to both your vet and your farrier for advice.

Magnet boots - personally I think a load of tosh, but if you are going to use them you will need to combine with your farriery, not in lieu.

Keeping a horse with navicular in work is not cheap. you would be better to find a slightly older horse on ,loan for hacking that doesn't come with this problem. I certainly wouldn't buy a horse with navicular syndrome.
 
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