NEED HELP - Horse turned dangerous travelling

[Eventing97]

Hi all,

Posting on here as I need help with my horse regarding travelling. He has left me pretty shaken up and I'm looking for recommendations for a professional who deals with these issues to come out and help me, I am in Lincolnshire.

Horse has had usually mot done and vet checked, box has been checked, same driver and horsebox since he started going out (he's now rising 7) never had a bad experience, usually outings are nice hacks with friends, the odd lesson etc!! Always been 100%. I believe it's impatience and anxiety as he started been like it tied up on the yard to groom/tack up and also in the stable, apart from in the box he's turned dangerous and explosive when standing, when he's decided he wants to get off. No loading issues, travels fine (sometimes paws for a minute or so) so the issue it tying him up and not able to get the ramp up quick enough before he's decided he wants to get off, snapping ropes and throwing himself about. He is a big strong horse and I am a small female. He is great to ride when we get the the other end.

Thank you !!

 

[Burnerbee]

So is he kicking off in the stable / being groomed too? Just seeking clarification because your description is a bit ambiguous.

Steve Young (see him / his methods on YouTube). He does talk ‘quite a lot’ but I’d trust him and seemingly horses do.

 

[Birker2020]

Grant Bazin

 

[WestCoast]

I would get an expert in to help you with loading/standing problems. It’s easy to get anxious around them when they behave like this and it sometimes just takes someone confident and experienced to work with them and you to stop the behaviour.

 

[FieldOrnaments]

what vet checks has he had done and when/why did the behaviour start (appreciate you might not know why)? It sounds as if his objection is just to being tied up not just travelling?

ETA your description is a bit unclear, you might find people ask lots of questions moreso than they give you answers but it's only because it's easier to give a useful response when you have the full picture

 

[Birker2020]

I would get an expert in to help you with loading/standing problems. It’s easy to get anxious around them when they behave like this and it sometimes just takes someone confident and experienced to work with them and you to stop the behaviour.

I used to visibly shake and my legs would turn to jelly at the thought of Bailey refusing to go on the trailer when I'd been looking forward to having some fun at the weekend after a week of slogging away at work.

Looking back I think I caused her anxiety with my own.

 

[Cortez]

Does he do this when tied up not on the box too?

 

[Belmont]

Grant Bazin

Agree, Grant is the guy to call.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Did the vet examine the poll? It is possible that having a headcollar tied to something that doesn't move easily is causing him some pain.

 

[WestCoast]

I used to visibly shake and my legs would turn to jelly at the thought of Bailey refusing to go on the trailer when I'd been looking forward to having some fun at the weekend after a week of slogging away at work.

Looking back I think I caused her anxiety with my own.

I think a lot of us have been there. I was lucky that I had access to a really good horseman to work with me and my last mare with loading. I’m still getting benefits if the work he did with us as my current mare has really good ground manners because of what he taught me.

 

[FieldOrnaments]

Did the vet examine the poll? It is possible that having a headcollar tied to something that doesn't move easily is causing him some pain.

or tmj/neck pain I was thinking.

 

[Eventing97]

So is he kicking off in the stable / being groomed too? Just seeking clarification because your description is a bit ambiguous.

Steve Young (see him / his methods on YouTube). He does talk ‘quite a lot’ but I’d trust him and seemingly horses do.

Hi, yes after he has been in the horsebox, this behaviour goes to the stable / tying up on yard - I've not had him in the horsebox since (3/4 weeks) he has stopped behaving like this on the yard now, however can randomly start again been stressy

 

[Eventing97]

I would get an expert in to help you with loading/standing problems. It’s easy to get anxious around them when they behave like this and it sometimes just takes someone confident and experienced to work with them and you to stop the behaviour.

Yes I'm searching for recommendations for a professional to help me, he has shaken me up from last outing

 

[Eventing97]

I used to visibly shake and my legs would turn to jelly at the thought of Bailey refusing to go on the trailer when I'd been looking forward to having some fun at the weekend after a week of slogging away at work.

Looking back I think I caused her anxiety with my own.

Oh no sorry to hear that, he loads fine, I take him every where on my own (well did) fun hacks with my friends etc, never had a worry before then one random day he reared and got up on the anti-jump thing, thought weird but must be a one off - took him out the next time and he fully lost it, which has left me really nervous of putting him back on the box so I've not since that happened

 

[Eventing97]

what vet checks has he had done and when/why did the behaviour start (appreciate you might not know why)? It sounds as if his objection is just to being tied up not just travelling?

ETA your description is a bit unclear, you might find people ask lots of questions moreso than they give you answers but it's only because it's easier to give a useful response when you have the full picture

Behaviour started end of may- beginning of June (so around the time the grass changed) He was getting fidgety on the yard to groom tack up etc, I had him out to a lesson on the friday (on my own as usual - totally fine) then a pleasure ride on monday with some friends - on the way back I had just loaded him, as i was walking down ramp to put it up he reared and got onto the anti-jump wall, got down, never done anything like this, thought maybe a horse going by spooked him - although he is so used to that! Tried not to think much of it, then took him out a week later - same thing, loaded, partition across, walked out to leave him to get the ramp up and he went absolutely mad so i've not had him in since - after this journey he was a nightmare on the yard for tacking up, grooming etc, pulling back and snapping ropes, rearing, (has thankfully stopped this -it's been about 4 weeks no outings) will stand now on the yard again - so I'm about ready to try standing on the box but pretty nervous about doing it on my own after last time, so looking for a professional incase it goes wrong, hope that's more detail? no idea why this started - prior to this i had him out a few times a month for hacks and lessons etc so totally random

Vet checks he had vet come and look over him for assessment feel for pain etc, had him scopes for ulcers, had phsyio out, teeth, saddle, he is happy in himself, looks fantastic, shiny, not lame or showing any signs of injury, so i think maybe impatience temper tantrum, or anxiety / worry causing these behaviour outbursts, seemed to loose confidence been left on his own (without me in there etc, or walking away when he's in the stable etc) great to exercise

thank you

 

[Eventing97]

Does he do this when tied up not on the box too?

As I travel him on my own I tend to do most things in the box (tack up etc) before getting him out, the odd time I tie him up to the box he is usually ok and will eat the haynet - sometimes fidgety

 

[Tiddlypom]

What vet checks has he had? How in depth were they?

Sudden onset travelling problems can often stem from an ouch which is exacerbated by travelling.

Have you had someone travelling in the horsebox without the horse to check for weird things happening while it’s moving?

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Did the vet examine the poll? It is possible that having a headcollar tied to something that doesn't move easily is causing him some pain.

Was going to suggest this I had a mare that didn't like being tied up or bridled and she had an old poll injury.

When Arabi started to lean on the lorry walls when travelling he had a suspensory injury he went lame about 3 weeks after he started doing it.

I would rule out pain before getting help as travelling often makes slight pain feel worse.

 

[Eventing97]

What vet checks has he had? How in depth were they?

Sudden onset travelling problems can often stem from an ouch which is exacerbated by travelling.

Have you had someone travelling in the horsebox without the horse to check for weird things happening while it’s moving?

Vet checks he had vet come and look over him for assessment feel for pain etc, had him scopes for ulcers, had phsyio out, teeth, saddle, he is happy in himself, looks fantastic, shiny, not lame or showing any signs of injury, so i think maybe impatience temper tantrum, or anxiety / worry causing these behaviour outbursts, seemed to loose confidence been left on his own (without me in there etc, or walking away when he's in the stable etc) great to exercise

Did the vet examine the poll? It is possible that having a headcollar tied to something that doesn't move easily is causing him some pain.

Was going to suggest this I had a mare that didn't like being tied up or bridled and she had an old poll injury.

How did you find this out - was it through x rays? He hasn't had any x rays - Physio has done a session on him but didn't bring up any poll pain/ soreness, same with vet she had a good feel of him, he also had a bridle fitter not long ago

 

[Eventing97]

abit more info - fine to tack up, bridle, head coller, lead etc, doesn't show discomfort when doing this, great to ride, has saddle and bridle fitters out and checked, he lives out 24/7 all year round with a field shelter, so only comes up to the yard to be groomed, tacked up, dentist, farrier etc or loaded for an outing. He's in work 4/5 days a week. Between the months of september - march is when he's quietest, not sure if the grass in the summer is upsetting something, and causing worry/ anxious behaviour?

 

[Birker2020]

Whilst I agree with Tiddlypom re: an ouch caused by vibrations from the trailer it can also be psychological too.

Bailey used to practically run on the trailer, I never had a single ocassion where she hesitated much less refuse and for the first seven and a half years I owned her she would practically run you over trying to get up the ramp to liad excited to go out.

But I went to a showground the one day and in between classes thought it would be a good idea to give her a leg stretch and walked her up to the two pet pigs they had in a little pen. The one lifted its head and snorted at her and that was it, she practically shook like jelly and from that moment on we had a loading issue. She wouldn't load to come home, it took 20 mins that day.

I think she thought the pigs were going to be in the trailer or something, it was the shock of seeing the pigs and she somehow associated that with the trailer. She hated pigs anyway having had piglets run across a lane in front of her feet, out hacking months before and from an enclosure. It had upset her and I think that and the pigs at the show centre had reinforced her issues.

She was a demo horse at a Monty Roberts for problem horses and they felt she was claustrophobic but at the age 14 it wasn't as if she'd grown 2 " or something, it was the same trailer she'd gone on all those years before.

Anyway I got a behaviourist in to see her and he loaded her within minutes and with the technique he'd shown me on her very bad days it may have taken three minutes to load her, on her good days a few seconds and sometimes she'd go on coming back without a second look which rather made me think it was in her head.

But it was always a worry that she wouldn't go on at all.

Are you certain nothing happened to your horse? It might be something you dismissed readily not thinking it was that, but it might have been a total different matter for your horse.

 

[Eventing97]

What vet checks has he had? How in depth were they?

Sudden onset travelling problems can often stem from an ouch which is exacerbated by travelling.

Have you had someone travelling in the horsebox without the horse to check for weird things happening while it’s moving?

Sorry replied above and missed that - no I havn't had a person travel in it, that is a good check, forgot to add I'm travelling him in a rear facing coach built 3.5 box. It's very airy - had 6 windows and roof vent and fan. I've had him since he was 3 so he began travelling with me (prior to breeder dropping him off in trailer but that was years ago now, he was only 30mins down the road from me) and he's been out loads last year, he always has a couple of months off turned away each year and a good break, it's literally been the last two times, he did seem like he was worried about something in his eye , started pawing etc - but walks himself on?

 

[Eventing97]

Whilst I agree with Tiddlypom re: an ouch caused by vibrations from the trailer it can also be psychological too.

Bailey used to practically run on the trailer, I never had a single ocassion where she hesitated much less refuse and for the first seven and a half years I owned her she would practically run you over trying to get up the ramp to liad excited to go out.

But I went to a showground the one day and in between classes thought it would be a good idea to give her a leg stretch and walked her up to the two pet pigs they had in a little pen. The one lifted its head and snorted at her and that was it, she practically shook like jelly and from that moment on we had a loading issue. She wouldn't load to come home, it took 20 mins that day.

I think she thought the pigs were going to be in the trailer or something, it was the shock of seeing the pigs and she somehow associated that with the trailer. She hated pigs anyway having had piglets run across a lane in front of her feet, out hacking months before and from an enclosure. It had upset her and I think that and the pigs at the show centre had reinforced her issues.

She was a demo horse at a Monty Roberts for problem horses and they felt she was claustrophobic but at the age 14 it wasn't as if she'd grown 2 " or something, it was the same trailer she'd gone on all those years before.

Anyway I got a behaviourist in to see her and he loaded her within minutes and with the technique he'd shown me on her very bad days it may have taken three minutes to load her, on her good days a few seconds and sometimes she'd go on coming back without a second look which rather made me think it was in her head.

But it was always a worry that she wouldn't go on at all.

Are you certain nothing happened to your horse? It might be something you dismissed readily not thinking it was that, but it might have been a total different matter for your horse.

Oh gosh that's very interesting! Bless her, well the first time he did this (reared in box) was after his first pleasure ride - it was probably the busiest place he had been - he behaved fantastic on the ride, but first event like this as such - he'd done hacks with 2/3 friends, clinics with 3/4 horses, and two unaff shows dressage and jumping (maybe 15 ish) then 1-1 lesson outings before this but there were loads here.. then after this i took him to unaff show, he travelled great on the way there, then lost it afterwards and standing to go home, but it wasn't that busy- maybe 20 there?

 

[ester]

So your last post makes me wonder if he's trigger stacking and you're seeing the end result of that once on the box (and having generated a bad experience in it that's continued for him). Sorry no pro recommendations other than the obvious but I'd definitely go down that route (I know you are anyway)

 

[Eventing97]

So your last post makes me wonder if he's trigger stacking and you're seeing the end result of that once on the box (and having generated a bad experience in it that's continued for him). Sorry no pro recommendations other than the obvious but I'd definitely go down that route (I know you are anyway)

Thank you - do you have any recommendations please? I've emailed Grant so far. This is totally new area for me, in the 15 years of having horses I've never had a bad traveller!

 

[Eventing97]

Grant Bazin

thank you have contacted him

 

[dougpeg]

Joe Midgley is Lincolnshire based. Worth contacting. It doesn't sound like travelling is the root cause, just an escalation trigger to whatever is going on with him.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

Second the recommendation for Joe Midgley. He’s amazingly skilled, local to you, doesn’t charge ‘Big Name’ prices (yet!) and a really lovely person.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Vet checks he had vet come and look over him for assessment feel for pain etc, had him scopes for ulcers, had phsyio out, teeth, saddle, he is happy in himself, looks fantastic, shiny, not lame or showing any signs of injury, so i think maybe impatience temper tantrum, or anxiety / worry causing these behaviour outbursts, seemed to loose confidence been left on his own (without me in there etc, or walking away when he's in the stable etc) great to exercise


How did you find this out - was it through x rays? He hasn't had any x rays - Physio has done a session on him but didn't bring up any poll pain/ soreness, same with vet she had a good feel of him, he also had a bridle fitter not long ago

A physio found it she had scar tissue in the poll area and when she touched it there was a strong reaction, may have been caused by hitting it or being ridden in hyperflexion as a young horse.

She showed me how to massage it gently and I had a few exercises to do and was on bute for a while.

She did improve but took a while.

 

[ycbm]

If you've had him four years, since he was 3, and this is new behaviour, then I think it's unlikely that this is going to turn out to be behavioural.

Did the vet do flexion tests when he checked him over?
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