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KatieandJJ

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My horse has been very ill with liver problems recently. He had lots of blood tests, and about a month ago he had a biopsy, and is still on lots of drugs. He seems a lot better, but he is one of three horses at my yard who have now had to have liver biopsies in recent months, and many have had problems with their liver, although not as serious. The vet assures me it is not ragwort poisoning, although St Johns Wort is suspected. The vet has been quite reluctant to give a specific diagnosis, and I feel that the yard ( who are a very big customer of this vet) and the vets are potentially witholding information about what has caused this illness.
Basically, I just want to know whose responsibility it is to ensure the fields/hay is safe and has nothing poisonous in it. The yard has not acknowledged they could be at fault at all, and are completely ignoring that anything has happened. However, they have been sure to charge for all the extras for when my boy had to be on box rest etc! I'm probably leaving now anyway, but I am just interested in everyone's opinion on this issue. Sorry it's so long! Thank you very much, your views would be MASSIVELY appreciated!
 
KatieandJJ said:
My horse has been very ill with liver problems recently. He had lots of blood tests, and about a month ago he had a biopsy, and is still on lots of drugs. He seems a lot better, but he is one of three horses at my yard who have now had to have liver biopsies in recent months, and many have had problems with their liver, although not as serious. The vet assures me it is not ragwort poisoning, although St Johns Wort is suspected. The vet has been quite reluctant to give a specific diagnosis, and I feel that the yard ( who are a very big customer of this vet) and the vets are potentially witholding information about what has caused this illness.
Basically, I just want to know whose responsibility it is to ensure the fields/hay is safe and has nothing poisonous in it. The yard has not acknowledged they could be at fault at all, and are completely ignoring that anything has happened. However, they have been sure to charge for all the extras for when my boy had to be on box rest etc! I'm probably leaving now anyway, but I am just interested in everyone's opinion on this issue. Sorry it's so long! Thank you very much, your views would be MASSIVELY appreciated!
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Ask for full written report on liver biopsy as they are normally sent away and a written report is sent back. Does the field have ragwart and St Johns Wort in it?
 
Hello,

So sorry to hear that your boy has been ill. Hope he makes a full and speedy recovery.

Unfortunately I couldn't give any advice on who's responsible as I'm not sure, but could you get another vet (as in different clinic) to give a 2nd opinion? I don't know if your vet would be willing/able to show your horses notes but if they can then it might be worth it for your peace of mind?

Nobody deserves to be messed around with things like this, so I really hope you get some answers soon.
 
KatieandJJ said:
The vet assures me it is not ragwort poisoning, although St Johns Wort is suspected.
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St John's Wort can cause photosensitisation in horses but I can find no evidence to suggest it causes liver damage. However, there is also a certain amount of scientific evidence that suggests ragwort is not quite the 'big bad wolf' it is painted to be (it IS toxic - but there is no evidence that it accumulates in the body - and a rather large quantity is needed to do damage.)

There is currently NO test that could determine if liver damage was caused by ragwort (or St John's Wort) so I would be asking the vet on what evidence he has come to this conclusion! I would guess that avoiding upsetting yard owner MIGHT have some influence.
 
i've pm'd you but my horse had liver fluke a few years ago, it's left his liver damaged and after alot of speculation about why his liver was failing they found out it was caused by fluke which is more common in cattle.
 
Im not sure on ins and outs of st johns and liver problems but if only to put your mind at rest demand to see the biopsy report - it is your right to be able to see this - it may not tell you it is st johns thsts caused it but will give you peace of mind regarding the field and yaard fingers crosses all goes well and your horse gets on raod to speedy recovery big hugs xx
 
riding_high said:
i've pm'd you but my horse had liver fluke a few years ago, it's left his liver damaged and after alot of speculation about why his liver was failing they found out it was caused by fluke which is more common in cattle.
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There is a LOT of liver fluke around this year for some reason..... Its hard to diagnose till its gotten really bad so if its a possibility itsbetter to treat for it anyway.
 
A horse at my last yard had liver problems (acute liver damage...?) a couple of years ago, we all thought the worst but in fact he had many tests and a course of injections, specific food and has made a full recovery.

The vets stated they could not identify the cause of the problem, could be ragwort, could be something else, it was impossible to tell. There is no ragwort at this yard and the girl had owned him since he was 2.

I wuold say it is the person who is feeding the hay, their responsibility to check for ragwort. So, I was on DIY livery so I checked my own hay and fields. I don;t know who would have the responsibility if it was not DIY.

Get well soon to horse.
 
i would use a different vet practice and as another poster suggested get a full written report from both practices.

i would also move off the yard. as i understand it, unless a contract has been signed the control and removal of ragwort is landowners responsibility.

hope he gets well soon xxx
 
JanetGeorge said:
St John's Wort can cause photosensitisation in horses but I can find no evidence to suggest it causes liver damage. However, there is also a certain amount of scientific evidence that suggests ragwort is not quite the 'big bad wolf' it is painted to be (it IS toxic - but there is no evidence that it accumulates in the body - and a rather large quantity is needed to do damage.)

There is currently NO test that could determine if liver damage was caused by ragwort (or St John's Wort) so I would be asking the vet on what evidence he has come to this conclusion! I would guess that avoiding upsetting yard owner MIGHT have some influence.
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My horse was photosensitive and had heightened liver enzymes in her blood, therefore either the liver damage causes the photosensitivity or the st johns wort I guess... I understood it was a combination of the both? At my yard there were also horses who tested fine on their liver, but had had a 'burnt' nose from photosensitivity which indicated st johns wort...
 
My pony died from liver failure in June- he had been biopsied and my vet told me that he had had hepatitis. According to my vet an ultrasound coupled with the biopsy showed that the pattern of damage to my pony's liver was different to that caused by ragwort poisoning and that, in his opinion, my pony had not been poisoned. He was not able to say what had caused the hepatitis, as my pony was long recovered from it without showing any signs of illness, he only showed signs of being ill when his liver was severely damaged.

As far as I'm aware, the landowner has the responsibilty of keeping ragwort down on his/her land, but I'm in Scotland and a lot of our laws are different from English law.

I hope your horse recovers, good luck with him.
 
I have to say I have never heard of liver fluke or come across it. But after reading some of the articles when your google it, it could cover a lot of the descriptions people have put on here over the last few months re: whats wrong with my horse.:confused:
 
I will have to google equine liver fluke, as its not something I have seen, however it is really prevalent in sheep and cattle.
There is a specific wormer for sheep to kill off the fluke worm, generally rotated into the worming cycle.
Liver fluke is caused by a tiny worm that lives and thrives in damp conditions, that then uses a snail as a host, we have never had a problem with fluke until last year when our hill fields flooded badly at the bottom, creating a marshy patch where our hill breed sheep love to graze (nice sweet new grass) the sheep then nibble the grass, taking in the tiny snails and therefore the worm.
In sheep a classic sign of fluke is a swelling like a goitre round the jowls of the sheep, and a turkey neck type thickening under the lower jaw, that combined with general unthriftiness and lacklustre coat point strongly to fluke, Im not sure if the same signs would show in horses :?
Good luck with your boy OP, definately demand to see all test results, its your right as a customer, just like seeing your own doctors notes!
 
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