Needing some thoughts on youngster

I would honestly send him away for a bit let him go get an education away from “mum”, if they can have him in a small herd with a range of ages, perfect! Older horses will teach him about space/respect, younger ones will play with him and help he learn to explore. The pro will be able to extend those lessons to humans and real life. If they can get him going consistently, then you can start going for lessons with them, or hack him out there and make a decision from there what to do.

Be honest with yourself though because you’ll have to take him as he is when he returns and try not to “come back” to now in your head now and give him a fresh chance if he does become a reformed pony!

Youngsters are often knobs for a few months at a time, they’re exploring their world, everyone’s boundaries and the rules at large. Nothing is a permanent habit I’d say at this point but it needs nipping in the bud! These early stages are hard as it can feel like a completely different horse day to day!
 
GrassChop said:
The trainer may have availability for him to go to their yard instead but I can't currently see how that will change things with me when he's back home.
Click to expand...

Take it. I have a little gelding who I adore, but who reacts to my most gentle chastisement with dramatic horror (My MUMMY doesn’t LOVE me! Waaaaa!) and ignored everyone else’s attempts to get him to cooperate because he wanted his mum. I sent him away for 5 weeks to a pro friend because he just needed to grow up and learn out of my shadow. He came back a much more mature pony, who now can be handled by anyone - even the people he wouldn’t tolerate before.
 
Definitley send him away if it's affordable for you. He needs a period of consistent work now.

As for whether you'll ever be a good match no one can say at this stage.

However, just to add my experience of owning one NF pony was that, like many native breeds, they are opinionated.

Ours belonged to my eldest daughter, when she tried him he tried to whip round with her, but she managed him and we really liked him. Hed been a boy's hunting and Tetrathlon pony, he was game as you like and had the most amazing jump. My daughter won all sorts with him and he was an amazing hack too.

When she outgrew him we couldn't bear to part with him and we loaned him from our yard and guess what? He took the absolute Mickey (his stable name funnily enough 😂) out of his first and second loaners. Both lovely girls and not novice riders. He would nap and spin and just generally make life difficult for them.

I was glad I didn't sell him or I would have been done under the Trade Descriptions Act as I would have advertised him as an out and out schoolmaster!
Loaning him just proved that even into his teens he hasn't lost his will to exploit any rider weakness he picked up on.

My daughter and I both loved riding him, but he was a bit of a monkey under the surface.
 
Last edited:
GrassChop said:
he tanked off properly which seems to be his go-to tactic.
Click to expand...

Barklands said:
This is not a dominance thing, but a safety thing.
Click to expand...
I disagree. I think it can be a dominance thing. Generalising, every horse we handle or ride is bigger and stronger and heavier than we are and at some point the question needs to be settled that the human is in charge. If the horse is using tanking off as a weapon, then I have watched Mark Rashid deal with this by taking the horse to an outdoor arena (small one) and then waving his arms to force the horse (unridden) to continue running.
The stop and go were reclaimed by the human being in the school.

I did this in a technical sense when hacking solo, my horse ran away with me. She was possibly spooked but we were hurtling along. When she slowed, I used some leg and forced her to contiinue. It is very ordinary, for a hacking horse to be spooked and to run and unless the situation is dangerous, I always ask for a little more than the horse has forced upon me. And be cross.
 
Last edited:
Youngsters are not knobs. There are gaps in their training and a lack of understanding. Too many are rushed into work without time for them to process all that they are being asked. How many years does it take to produce a top class horse properly? Training is not a quick fix. It is far better for the horse/pony to build their trust slowly than a quick 6/8 weeks send away.

Sometimes you don't click with each other. OP, if you don't have the confidence nor feel that it will come, it maybe best to ask for him to go on sales livery.
 
Thanks again everyone.
The trainer came yesterday and took him for a hack. He was foot perfect, cantering across open forest.

The problem is obviously me. I don't know if he's napping or spooking but I think we have established that it's not about him technically because I feel at this point, any confident rider could get on him and hack him out without issues.

I'm not a brave rider at certain times and I worry that if he always relies on me for confidence and I can't always provide it, then we will never get through this sticky patch.
 
FieldOrnaments said:
If it's a clash of personality (happens!) maybe consider sending him to somewhere he can be on schooling then sales livery? It's not much fun for either of you if you're in a constant cycle of feeding each others anxiety
Click to expand...
That's what I'm worried about. Will we ever be able to work together?
 
A wise lady said to me ‘I promised my horse I would get off if ever I could be more use to him on the ground’.

These really helped me - getting off wasn’t a failure, it was the right thing to do.

If you decide to follow this, the next thing you have to do is teach your horse when you say ‘off’ it stops so you can get off safely. It is a game changer.

Third thing you should do is set up challenges in your home school and accept it might take a while session to deal with it calmly, a radio in the sand school, an umbrella, a flag, a water sprinkler etc etc.

Allow the horse to look accept from a distance, walk around it from a distance before approaching. Take the time it needs!
 
💯 send him away, get him established. You obviously don’t want to ride him right now which is fine.

And then you can see if he’s the pony for you. If he isn’t you can sell him from the pro’s. And someone will want a professionally produced pony ready for the summer. And you will have had a bit of break from having him around to know if you really miss him.

Not all horses suit all riders.
 
He’s a New Forest. They take their time to grow up but I haven’t met a bad adult yet. Any young horse or pony will need their confidence to come from you for years yet - until well established. My little NF has only just decided she can look after a child and she’s 10 this year! She has now switched from ‘Get if off me! I don’t DO children! Off!’ To: ‘Wobbly scared beginner? Bring it on, I can help!’ Our first NF spent her youth bucking people off when she got bored and tanking down fields if they wouldn’t canter when she wanted to. She grew up into a first pony - 13.2hh of her looking after tiny children in open spaces, teaching them to jump etc.

If the intervening years are not for you - sell and buy something older that does what you want (or don’t if you don’t need a companion).
 
Realistically though, sending him away or getting a trainer doing X amount of days a week, what is the likelihood any of that will change how he is with me?
 
GrassChop said:
Realistically though, sending him away or getting a trainer doing X amount of days a week, what is the likelihood any of that will change how he is with me?
Click to expand...
You won't know until you try it. That's the point. They can literally go away and have changed completely. And if that does happen he's now got a solid foundation to be sold from which at the moment he doesn't, everything is shaky. He doesn't hack out, hasn't schooled, long reins but inconsistently, I haven't seen you mentioned lunging so I'm presuming doesn't? So not very saleable anyway but if you decide to sell it's good if they have as many bells to their tail (metaphorically) as possible because a financially valuable animal is safer than a bin end cheap one.
 
Things, once again, went really badly today.
The trainer advised that I lunge and long rein between visits.

So I decided today I'll lunge him first and he went well in walk and trot on each rein with some standing. Only a few minutes on each rein. Then I popped the long reins on and headed up the track. The minute I got off the yard and onto the track, he span twice and tried bogging off but I managed to turn him. I got at him and made him get on. We then approached the bit he span at with me on him last time, he hesitated but I made him get on. We walked down to our main gate, did a big loop and headed back.

When we approached that section again, he took off without warning. Somehow, I managed to hold on doing a slight one rein stop and made him stand. So I walked him on and turned him to go back up to do it again but ideally without issues. He hesitated but I made him get on and literally within seconds, he span and was gone full speed all the way back to the yard.

I went back down and got him and sent him back up there. As soon as we got to the same section again, I felt him hesitating and urged him on. Again, in a split second, he was gone and I just couldn't hold him. He locks in and the bit does nothing.

He isn't scared and he isn't spooking. I wasn't nervous. I was firm, I growled when I needed to. Talked to him loads, reassured him.

I'm not getting him back out, I'm only making it worse. I genuinely don't think sending him off is going to make a blind bit of difference with how he is for me.
 
FieldOrnaments said:
You won't know until you try it. That's the point. They can literally go away and have changed completely. And if that does happen he's now got a solid foundation to be sold from which at the moment he doesn't, everything is shaky. He doesn't hack out, hasn't schooled, long reins but inconsistently, I haven't seen you mentioned lunging so I'm presuming doesn't? So not very saleable anyway but if you decide to sell it's good if they have as many bells to their tail (metaphorically) as possible because a financially valuable animal is safer than a bin end cheap one.
Click to expand...
He has schooled, he hacks alone and has only hacked alone. He lunges and he long reins. He's good as gold for everyone but me now it seems even though I taught him everything he knows.
 
ihatework said:
It’s ok to say he’s not the horse for you and move him on.

But you can’t really sell him as he is from yours, so irrespective he is likely to need to go away, get a little established/consistent then be sold away from you.
Click to expand...
I think that's going to have to be the plan because there's no way I can do anything with him being like this where he is at the moment. :(

Saying that, a confident person/someone he doesn't know will likely have him going foot perfect. It's just me he's like it with it seems.

It breaks my heart but I genuinely don't see a way forward now.
 
GrassChop said:
I think that's going to have to be the plan because there's no way I can do anything with him being like this where he is at the moment. :(

Saying that, a confident person/someone he doesn't know will likely have him going foot perfect. It's just me he's like it with it seems.

It breaks my heart but I genuinely don't see a way forward now.
Click to expand...
I think you have had a mutual breakdown in trust. It happens. No one has been hurt. He’ll make a grand horse in the right home. You’ve done right by him.
 
I don't think anyone lives thinking they will get along splendidly with every one of the 8.3billion humans on the planet and there is no reason every person should be able to get on just great with every one of the 58 or so million horses on Earth either. It doesn't mean anything has been done wrong, it's just how it is.
 
FieldOrnaments said:
I don't think anyone lives thinking they will get along splendidly with every one of the 8.3billion humans on the planet and there is no reason every person should be able to get on just great with every one of the 58 or so million horses on Earth either. It doesn't mean anything has been done wrong, it's just how it is.
Click to expand...
No, you're right. It's just bloody sh!t.
 
Mine isn't a youngster but he's the type to very much feed off my anxiety. His party trick when he arrived was also to spin and tank off down the road if something spooked him - he always stopped but we sometimes got quite far before he did! He’d then be a fire breathing dragon for the rest of the ride passaging everywhere and snorting like a stallion. He doesn't do it anymore, I actually couldn't tell you the last time he did it, I think the big issue was just that for the first few months he lacked confidence in me. Even though I FELT like I was riding him effectively I was obviously subconsciously anxious and he picked up on that. Now we get along he’s fine and actually pretty chilled to hack most of the time.

But he also is who he is, I have to ride him very relaxed and confidently as he 100% feeds off me, he’ll never be ‘easy’ in that sense.
 
maya2008 said:
He’s a New Forest. They take their time to grow up but I haven’t met a bad adult yet. Any young horse or pony will need their confidence to come from you for years yet - until well established. My little NF has only just decided she can look after a child and she’s 10 this year! She has now switched from ‘Get if off me! I don’t DO children! Off!’ To: ‘Wobbly scared beginner? Bring it on, I can help!’ Our first NF spent her youth bucking people off when she got bored and tanking down fields if they wouldn’t canter when she wanted to. She grew up into a first pony - 13.2hh of her looking after tiny children in open spaces, teaching them to jump etc.

If the intervening years are not for you - sell and buy something older that does what you want (or don’t if you don’t need a companion).
Click to expand...

All of this and more.

Natives also learn really quickly. The good, the bad and the ugly. He's learnt he can get away from you and he's taking advantage of that. He can also probably feel you start to get a little anxious when you approach 'that' part of the track. He won't feel that with the pro as they will be consistently firm and wont let his mind slip for a second. It's OK to not be that person. I'm not. And I get pro help in when needed with my babies and I've needed it more with one than the other.

My now 6 year old is not a kids pony (which is unfortunate at 12.2hh) he ditched a competent 14year old at the weekend and was incredible smug about it too. He just about tolerates my grandchildren being held on for a walk round the yard. But the swishing tail and facial expressions tells us its not his happy place. Hopefully he decides he likes kids at some point.

I think I'd send him away for a good few weeks if he was mine. In that time I'd want to be hacking from their yard and doing all the things you want to do with a young horse from home.

While your waiting for the space at the pro yard can you just walk in hand (in a bridle) up and down that track and make it the most boring place in the world? even take his feed up there, graze in hand. groom if its safe to do so. Just do everything you can think of in 'that' space until you are both comfortable up there. Use a lunge line so you have a bit of length if you need it in the beginning. Have him stepping over, back, round, just giving him lots to think about before you feel him thinking about buggering off.

If after the stint at the pro yard you don't feel he's going to be the horse for you, you have a horse set up ready to sell.
 
Peregrine Falcon said:
Sometimes the relationship just doesn't work. It's fine to accept that and find a suitable match. I have done in the past.
Click to expand...
Exactly this - I have had one NF 4 yo who I really thought was going to be fantastic, and he was until we got to the canter stage. The 4th time I picked myself up from the floor spitting out bits of gorse and heather - said "too sharp for me", went home and wrote out the advert. 12 years on and he is still in the home I sold him to, has made a fabulous eventing pony and I couldn't be happier about my decision!!
 
dorsetladette said:
I think I'd send him away for a good few weeks if he was mine. In that time I'd want to be hacking from their yard and doing all the things you want to do with a young horse from home.



If after the stint at the pro yard you don't feel he's going to be the horse for you, you have a horse set up ready to sell.
Click to expand...
I think something along these lines may be the best idea. Doesn't have to be a selling yard just somewhere with a reasonable rider for him and a horse you can ride and outside your riding area.. Get them to ride him and you ride along on their horse on hacks. After a few times it will get through to your brain that he behaves perfectly and swap over horses even if only for short periods. Then start riding him out from that new place. That is what he will eventually by like. Do you like him, love him and are happy with him riding? if not then it is not going to work and sell him. If you are happy away from home then, after a few rides to drum into your brain what a nice quiet loveable horse he is, start thinking about bringing him home.

I think if you have got into a pattern at home of thinking without even realising it he is going to stop at that gate, spook at that tree etc then it is going to be difficult to get out of your past rides with him and you need some better memories of some good rides on him to replace it,
 
It could also be that the management just doesn’t suit him right now, some horses do much better in herds, with more space and more going on. Others seem to prefer a quieter life with perhaps one or two other settled horses.

I find the younger they are, the more they benefit from herd turnout. Their energy is taken up by playing, exploring and interacting with others and they are consistently being reminded of expectations when they step out of line with the older ones. They get used to comings and goings.
 
Just so I know for my own peace of mind, would there be any other way I could stop him when he spins and tanks off? One rein does nothing and it's so quick, the bit doesn't really kick in. It's just a full cheek snaffle.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top