Neue Schule Poll Pressure Guide

LJR said:
Saw this - still can't believe that some people still think a hanging cheek exerts poll pressure.
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People just don't believe you when you tell them there's no point the bit pivots about. Have had many discussions about it where people would insist there's poll pressure.
 
I had exactly the same thoughts as you when I saw it, OP. I have never used the turtle top mouthpiece and had no idea it exerted poll pressure. Very interesting indeed.
 
Casey76 said:
I'm still wondering how an eggbutt snaffle (no hooks) exerts any poll pressure *confuzzled*
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the start of the booklet makes some mention about drag from the rings sliding through the holes in the mouthpiece. Surprising isn't it!

JGC said:
I think I am being a bit slow, but I can't see what it says about the turtle top?
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on page 7, the footnotes mention that the result for the loose ring snaffle that creates +2 poll pressure is for bits with the turtle top mouthpiece. so it suggests this mouthpiece increases the poll pressure compared to other snaffle mouthpieces.
 
JGC said:
I think I am being a bit slow, but I can't see what it says about the turtle top?
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Some of the cheeks are in there more than once, with superscripts. A superscript of 2 means the bit had a Turtle Top or Turtle Tactio mouthpiece, a 3 means it had a Turtle Tilt. It's on the bottom of page 7 in the footnote.
 
milliepops said:
on page 7, the footnotes mention that the result for the loose ring snaffle that creates +2 poll pressure is for bits with the turtle top mouthpiece. so it suggests this mouthpiece increases the poll pressure compared to other snaffle mouthpieces.
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ailbheg said:
Some of the cheeks are in there more than once, with superscripts. A superscript of 2 means the bit had a Turtle Top or Turtle Tactio mouthpiece, a 3 means it had a Turtle Tilt. It's on the bottom of page 7 in the footnote.
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Thanks!
 
Apology: I am Dr. Graham Cross, (g.cross@nsbits.com) Director of Studies of the NS Academy. Teaching staff members of the Academy brought to my notice during our regular Teaching and Research meeting this week that they had concerns over the data presented in the Poll Pressure guide published recently. Close reading of it shows that the data presented was taken from an early draft of research results that contained only preliminary data. I have asked for an explanation of how this could have occurred and will put the matter right as soon as possible. I hope to provide a full explanation in a full letter to Horse and Hound but please accept from me my most sincere apology for what is exactly not what the Academy aims to achieve. Too much misinformation on bits and bitting exists as you know and to be part of that, if only briefly, is deeply embarrassing for us. I am offering the email and web links and the services of our Academy team to help you resolve the issues you raise in this thread.
 
Casey76 said:
I'm still wondering how an eggbutt snaffle (no hooks) exerts any poll pressure *confuzzled*
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Its to do with the shape of the ring and the movement of the rein around the ring when the reins are used.
I too found this interesting - the whole article is excellent.

As a Pony Club examiner I get so frustrated when kids tell me that the Hanging Cheek has poll pressure.

Its amazing how word gets around - to the other side of the world - that the Hanging Cheek has poll pressure!
 
Please note my comment above. There is some measure of uncertainty over these published results. In fact we do not expect poll pressure in the Eggbutt snaffle and more detailed research may well prove this. Please wait for the revised version of our research before drawing conclusions.
 
dph0ghc said:
Please note my comment above. There is some measure of uncertainty over these published results. In fact we do not expect poll pressure in the Eggbutt snaffle and more detailed research may well prove this. Please wait for the revised version of our research before drawing conclusions.
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Thank you for coming on and explaining the situation.

I look forward to reading the finalized results.
 
From the results at the moment, i find it surprising that the full cheek snaffle has no poll pressure (with or without fulmer loops) and actually very interesting. Billy has always preferred the full cheek and although will accept a loose ring (which I think is 55mm) isn't as happy in the mouth. If the results show an increase in poll pressure of a loose ring then that could very well be the reason why! Both are the same bog standard French link mouthpiece as well.

Must try a Boucher on him to see how he goes in that, very interested now!

Ets. interesting to read about the turtle top - if the results are the same when published I can see BD banning the bit!
 
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dph0ghc said:
Apology: I am Dr. Graham Cross, (g.cross@nsbits.com) Director of Studies of the NS Academy. Teaching staff members of the Academy brought to my notice during our regular Teaching and Research meeting this week that they had concerns over the data presented in the Poll Pressure guide published recently. Close reading of it shows that the data presented was taken from an early draft of research results that contained only preliminary data. I have asked for an explanation of how this could have occurred and will put the matter right as soon as possible. I hope to provide a full explanation in a full letter to Horse and Hound but please accept from me my most sincere apology for what is exactly not what the Academy aims to achieve. Too much misinformation on bits and bitting exists as you know and to be part of that, if only briefly, is deeply embarrassing for us. I am offering the email and web links and the services of our Academy team to help you resolve the issues you raise in this thread.
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Thank you so much for posting here, I look forward to reading the finalised data.
 
only_me said:
From the results at the moment, i find it surprising that the full cheek snaffle has no poll pressure (with or without fulmer loops) and actually very interesting. Billy has always preferred the full cheek and although will accept a loose ring (which I think is 55mm) isn't as happy in the mouth. If the results show an increase in poll pressure of a loose ring then that could very well be the reason why! Both are the same bog standard French link mouthpiece as well.

Must try a Boucher on him to see how he goes in that, very interested now!

Ets. interesting to read about the turtle top - if the results are the same when published I can see BD banning the bit!
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Next time you are riding in a full cheek or Fulmer, watch the cheek pieces of your bridle when you use the reins, they go slack, therefore there can be no poll pressure.
 
From someone who has their Pony Club lorinery badge and their B test I can tell you I've always been told that a hanging cheek gives poll pressure! My mind has been blown.

Hanging cheeks were a staple when I was younger with kids whose ponies went in pelhams and gags until they were 'forced' into the dressage arena for eventing ;)
 
Tnavas said:
Next time you are riding in a full cheek or Fulmer, watch the cheek pieces of your bridle when you use the reins, they go slack, therefore there can be no poll pressure.
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I meant that there is no difference between using the loops on the full cheek or not using them; I had thought that because the top of full cheek is fixed there would have been an increase in pressure whereas without the loops the action is purely via the ring of bit. I always assumed that snaffles in general (especially fixed rings) had no poll pressure, apologies if that wasn't clear in my original post.

But other side of story is that the measurement is most likely rounded up/down; a +1 could be a 1.49 or a 0.51 so could both measure as a +1 poll pressure but there would actually be a +1 difference of poll pressure between those 2 bits!
 
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