Neurological issues/ wobblers/ possible neck Arthritis experiences

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Horsekaren

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I'm sure a lot of you will have seen my post and it is looking like my beautiful boy has a neurological issue. He was tested and xrayd and the write up states they can see abnormalities in the neck but also said they see these abnormalities in horses with no neurological issues also. The write up states mild Neuro issues and mild abnormalities in neck. Also has mentioned that he has a very very slight lameness on one of the front legs (again said thats not abnormal as very very slight)

We are trailing Predislone steroids for 4 weeks and Vit E and no work to see if he improves when they retest.

Everything i read about Neuro issues is all doom and gloom which i can understand. I see it mainly effects youngers horses not usually 10 Year olds. He is happy in the field but was going stiff and intermittently uncoordinated in walk when ridden only when asked to come into a higher frame.

I am looking at everything single thing he does and over analyzing, this morning i turned him in small circles, 3 times seemed fine, 4th time knocked a back leg and pivoted on his front inside leg rather than stepping on it (i think he might think im asking him to turn is quarters when he does this, so possibly adding confusion to the mix) backed up fine, walked down the lane fine ect, cleared the 4ft fence yesterday fine lol

Has anyone had experience with these sorts of conditions, particularly good experiences, how did you manage it, was the horse in any work or just retired, what did the horse do that was neurological? was it mild? any treatments or ways to help manage it?

I know advanced wobblers the kindest thing is to PTS as just being a horse is to hard but particularly interested in milder cases.
 
Mine was diagnosed earlier this year, she was 10. I had been struggling with her training because I was finding that she was clever and genuine, wanting to learn, but her behaviour was really erratic so she would be doing some really great work one minute, and rodeoing round the school the next. She would also occasionally spook so hard that she would lose her balance and knuckle over in front.

At a routine physio visit we lunged her and agreed that she wasn't right behind, and then physio did the classic neuro tests (back up, leg placement etc ) and she definitely seemed to have some worrying signs. Booked into top lameness/neuro vet at my horspital the next week where the diagnosis was made. She is mildly affected, she is in no danger to herself or handlers but she presents as bilaterally unlevel behind and also slightly on one front leg when really pressed to work and on circles. it's not a lameness relating to pain, it's a proprioception problem. She is clever and really looks where she is going, so she doesn't stumble or trip. she passes the tail pull tests etc. but she will stand pretty oddly when she is not concentrating. x Rays confirmed the injury to her neck that was causing the problem.

My vet suggested the steroids etc and said I could carry on riding her, but that she would be limited in what she could do. Personally I decided that I didn't want to ride a compromised horse (not wanting to put emotional effort into something i knew would eventually go wrong, and also not wanting to impact on her welfare) but I am pretty sure she would be perfectly happy to go hacking a few times a week. Her temperament is not really that of a horse that can be picked up and left though, she is quite hot and silly.

Mine is retired to the field where she is doing very well, she is the most happy-go-lucky horse I have ever had, and I am absolutely certain that she is comfortable and content and that it was the right decision for her. She charges round the field and leaps and bucks without ever looking iffy. She has a proper canter, no bunny hopping etc. I was told that based on her x rays they expected her to deteriorate slowly, so I am hoping she has many years ahead of her gadding around at liberty. if she starts to look odd when she's moving around then I will be calling time though.
 
Long term oral steroid use is not really an option (fine short term as a diagnostic) but over time will cause more problems than it solves.

So what you are most likely to be doing, if anything, is managing this with steroid injections and maybe bute. Plus appropriate work.

I’m sorry, but from what you are saying it sounds like school work might not be the most appropriate type of work. If he were mine he would be a happy hacker and allowed to have his neck wherever is most comfortable for him, or retired.

Back to steroid injections. There is only so much you can give in one go (and bearing in mind you are also managing hocks) you need to know exactly where to give them to maximise their chance of efficacy.

In your original post you said the X-ray showed multiple sites and wasn’t clear, hence my strong opinion you need further imaging if you intend to treat and/or ride. But I’m now interpreting your posts as xrays are sufficiently clear to determine the site of arthritis/compression?

In short, if I intended to ride, I’d have the horse on bute and would be injecting the neck, provided the vet was supportive. Any advancement on symptoms and it would be retirement or PTS. The horse would also never see an arena again and wouldn’t be expected to go in an outline.
 
What a shame. So difficult to deal with cases like this. Only limited experience of one livery's horse with neck/wither arthritis. Steriods didn't work and he was turned away but I think he was PTS not long after that. Sorry that won't be helpful.
 
Mine was years ago, 7 year old. I don't think there were any treatments available then, certainly none were offered. I was told that she was not safe to ride and I had stopped anyway as she was very obviously wrong and unhappy. She was fine in the field just in at night in winter and used to throw some impressive shapes, but I lost her to other causes at 12 so don't know how long that would have lasted otherwise.
 
Have you had bone scan (scintigraphy)? My mare was suspected of wobblers and went to the local vets to have her neck xrayed. It was inconclusive so we ended up at Rossdales where she had x rays, ultrasound scands and a bone scan where they inject a radioactive agent to trace the bones. My mare was showing a lot of the signs of wobblers, weakness walking down hill, on the tail pull & on tight circles. The scans thankfully showed she was fine, official diagnosis was big, young and weak. They did actually find a partially healed fracture to the third trochanter (top of femur) but apparently this was completely unrelated. If the xrays are unclear and your insurance will cover it, it might be worth talking to your vet about further investigations to confirm the diagnosis.
 
We've got a retired one at our yard. Not safe to ride but happy being a horse in a field for now. He was throwing some impressive shapes yesterday morning.

I hope you get a definite answer. I have a "not quite right but we don't know what's wrong" one and its exhausting to deal with xx
 
As I have posted before I had a 7yo who had hock, stifle and neck issues with early wobbler symptoms. It had gone on since 2 so I had him pts as he could not really manage light hacking, which is all he had ever done. I did not want or need a 17.3 field ornament so as much as I loved him (owned him since 6 months old) I called it a day as the outlook was only things getting worse. It's not what you want to hear though.

In your shoes I would definitely not keep working in the school, and either lightly hack or retire.
 
ihatework said:
Long term oral steroid use is not really an option (fine short term as a diagnostic) but over time will cause more problems than it solves.

So what you are most likely to be doing, if anything, is managing this with steroid injections and maybe bute. Plus appropriate work.

I’m sorry, but from what you are saying it sounds like school work might not be the most appropriate type of work. If he were mine he would be a happy hacker and allowed to have his neck wherever is most comfortable for him, or retired.

Back to steroid injections. There is only so much you can give in one go (and bearing in mind you are also managing hocks) you need to know exactly where to give them to maximise their chance of efficacy.

In your original post you said the X-ray showed multiple sites and wasn’t clear, hence my strong opinion you need further imaging if you intend to treat and/or ride. But I’m now interpreting your posts as xrays are sufficiently clear to determine the site of arthritis/compression?

In short, if I intended to ride, I’d have the horse on bute and would be injecting the neck, provided the vet was supportive. Any advancement on symptoms and it would be retirement or PTS. The horse would also never see an arena again and wouldn’t be expected to go in an outline.
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agree with all of this xxx
 
This might be a controversial post, but if I was in the position of being a single horse owner without my own facilities and a horse with issues that may well make it unsuitable for a ridden career, I would, personally speaking, consider PTS, though this would definitely take into account my financial situation, both in the short term and in the long term, how strongly I want a horse to ride and if there was a suitable retirement option or not. My reasoning is,...
1. A horse lives day-by-day and only cares about how it is today
2. Keeping a horse, whether ridden or not, is a costly choice
3. Losing control over a horse's future by selling or passing it on is always a risk, especially for an unsound horse
4. If I could not afford a second horse, I would miss not being able to ride
 
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The main one I know but was early days as regular very experienced rider as unaware of the issue, only picked up during specific vetting circumstances did better moving from a fairly intensive dressage production situation to living out and hacking on a long rein.

Realistically your boy has been effected this way before he was 10 so not really such early days. I think the current situ is tricky because if he improves you will not know if it was the rest or the steroids, and if he does improve with rest that might be more indicative for retirement.
 
Tarragon said:
This might be a controversial post, but if I was in the position of being a single horse owner without my own facilities and a horse with issues that may well make it unsuitable for a ridden career, I would, personally speaking, consider PTS, though this would definitely take into account my financial situation, both in the short term and in the long term and how strongly I want a horse to ride and if there was a suitable retirement option or not. My reasoning is,...
1. A horse lives day-by-day and only cares about how it is today
2. Keeping a horses, whether ridden or not, is a costly choice
3. Losing control over a horse's future by selling or passing it on is always a risk, especially for an unsound horse
4. If I could not afford a second horse, I would miss not being able to ride
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I would have been having the same thoughts if I only had the option of keeping mine at livery. Fortunately she is out with my other retirees at no additional cost to me in terms of time or money. A friend had a 4yo diagnosed and she was dependent on livery so did decide to PTS. It's a terribly hard decision but it's also not the wrong one, if that is what is best for you personally.
 
First, there are a great many undiagnosed or diagnosed but low grade wobblers in work right now. You aren't reading about them because they haven't got any problem with it.

Mine was born with narrowing of C3 and out of step C4, but it wasn't until C4 cracked when he was ten that anyone realised that he had any serious issues. In retrospect, he had been showing signs at nine, but nobody recognised it. He passed a five stage vetting at four even though he was carrying the deformity at the time.

A friend has one with nerve impingement at C6 which was causing her to explode when ridden and her neck was brought from lower to higher. She has had tildren, shockwave and steroids into the joint earlier this year and is currently looking 100% normal competing at dressage and schooling jumping.

At the time of her diagnosis a major vet practice with a hospital told her that they are seeing changes in the neck vertebrae of at least 50% of the horses that they xray.

In your shoes I would wait out the steroids and rest and see how he goes on with a permanent dose of either bute or devils claw (my preference, better on the stomach and cheaper too) and MSM. Both are proven anti inflammatories and one a pain reliever as well.

I would make my judgement then on whether he shows any signs of pain, and whether his wobbling is sufficiently reduced for him to be safe to ride. I wouldn't need him to be perfect, just pain free and safe enough.

.
 
Horsekaren said:
Has anyone had experience with these sorts of conditions, particularly good experiences, how did you manage it, was the horse in any work or just retired, what did the horse do that was neurological? was it mild? any treatments or ways to help manage it?
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I'll try and keep this short. My gelding was diagnosed in December last year, he was 9 then. He started to feel odd to ride, his stride felt odd and canter almost 5 beat but like he wasn't moving properly behind. He hated any contact (never use to) and would either want to stop or rush, like lack of performance. A friend watched his canter and said he looks fine, whats the issue. She got on him and couldn't believe how odd he felt. 2 vets said there was nothing wrong and he was taking the mick. Last vet gave a full work up, found nothing but he questioned it to be his hocks. Next day he called to say he suddenly thought of his neck, something we did not consider.

Vet came back out and x-rayed his neck and entire body. Found bad arthritis at C6/C7, refereed to specialist. More x-rays, confirmed the issue and specialist was certain it was infringing on his spinal cord but thought the pain of the arthritis was more of the issue rather than neurological. Specialist recommended steriods, he said we could CT to confirm spinal cord was effected which would cost me £2000 but the treatment would be the same. He gave steriods into both sides of the neck into the effected area (Note, he was not insured

The first say 3 months he felt good. Our homework was long and low and hill work. I have some videos of him working long and low, he looks amazing. He felt lovely and a few rides felt best he ever has in 5 years of ownership. I cried a few times on his back because he just felt so happy to work. I kept in touch with the specialist (Dickie Hepburn is a specialist in this area, so please do contact him if you need a second opinion) but we were unsure how long the steriods would work for.

After 3 months, going into 4 months I started to notice he would hide in the stable if he saw his saddle. To ride the weird feeling canter came back slightly, but more noticeable was he was completely unable to bend his neck while cantering. He would try and avoid cantering and became so behind the leg.

I spoke to Dickie who spoke about re steroid injecting him, but on a hole this was bad the symptoms were coming back so fast as the steroid should last a year. I gave him a few weeks off and within that time noticed he had developed an awful shoulder clunk downhill. I sent the video to Dickie who showed another specialist, they agreed this was related to the neck and really wasn’t good.

Dickie then decided it wasn’t a good idea to re steroid now this had happened, and there was nothing else they could do. He was so sorry. We could bute him up, but even on 4 bute a day he was not happy to be ridden and felt uncomfortable. He said he’d be in some degree of pain even in the field and it would only get worse. He seemed happy at grass, so I retired him for 6 months in the field on bute occasionally when he looked uncomfortable but he became depressed and not himself. He’d stand in the field gazing into space, yet had friends and grass. It was awful to see. I made the decision 2 weeks ago to put him to sleep. A hour before he was put to sleep walking up hill I noticed his shoulder clunk was worse than ever even on the flat you could now see it. I could tell by his eyes he was in pain.

He wasn’t a good case although I do have a friend who has a 5yr old mare with the same issue in C6/C7 but hers was more neurological (spinal cord compression) than pain. She was a high grade wobbler. She had steroids 11 months ago and is better than ever. Dickie doesn’t think she’ll ever need steroids again because shes done so so well, muscle has built up and no signs of neurological issues.

I really do wish you the best of luck, I really really hope he can be fixed. Well done for listening and knowing he wasn’t right. Dickie always use to tell me how so many dressage horses and eventers have spinal issues but continue with work without a issue. Some just aren’t successful. x
 
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ycbm said:
In your shoes I would wait out the steroids and rest and see how he goes on with a permanent dose of either bute or devils claw (my preference, better on the stomach and cheaper too) and MSM. Both are proven anti inflammatories and one a pain reliever as well.

I would make my judgement then on whether he shows any signs of pain, and whether his wobbling is sufficiently reduced for him to be safe to ride. I wouldn't need him to be perfect, just pain free and safe enough.
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I agree with ycbm, a good way to go about it.
 
I totally understand where you are right now. You just want some good news, and to hear that some horses come back from this. They do, and some dont. Its such an individual issue that the only people you need to listen to are your vets.
Here is our story :
My lad was PTS last year. His symptoms where :
He had started to show short in his front, so had him xrayed and nothing found ( legs/hooves etc) .
Performance had dipped , and was having the odd pole ( jumping newcomers, i had put it down to change of rider ).
One shoulder bigger than other ( muscle)
Saddle slipping
Neck tight when physio came

So I decided to chuck him out for a few months, then he started to get his neck stuck. He would trot over to the gate as if he was grazing. His neck was then xrayed and found he had a bone spur C6/C7 touching his spinal cord. Within a week of finding this out, he didn't want to leave his stable. His neck started to get stuck while inside. Prognosis was poor. Vets advised that he would soon start to fall over in the field. I couldnt let that happen to him, so he was PTS straight away.

Its such an awful thing to go through, listen to your vets and do as they suggest. I hope yours is one of the lucky ones.
 
I have pretty much come to terms with schooling pretty much going out the window which is fine. If he is a hack that's fine, if he is a pet that's fine i'm just keen to hear about others that had similar issues.
I love the bones of this horse, he has put me through hell and taught me so much that we are now such a partnership and every day is a joy to be around him. I will never pass him on. I couldn't PTS as long as he is happy in a field, i couldn't say bye to my friend because he cant carry me around if he is otherwise happy... lord knows he has put up with me like a champ!
His field and hay would range between £40 and £100.00 a month, insurance i would probably stop as exclusions are becoming a bit vast. I would keep his stable on and then i would down the line have the option of another but it sounds silly i cant imagine another horse, its just him!
I'd love to keep riding but i'll tackle that bridge when i come to it, whether it be a loan or lessons ect, i do feel a bit cheated that it was all really starting to come together :(
i guess i just want to hear stories of those that had these issues but still went on and on for years, as pets or otherwise.
 
Horsekaren said:
I have pretty much come to terms with schooling pretty much going out the window which is fine. If he is a hack that's fine, if he is a pet that's fine i'm just keen to hear about others that had similar issues.
I love the bones of this horse, he has put me through hell and taught me so much that we are now such a partnership and every day is a joy to be around him. I will never pass him on. I couldn't PTS as long as he is happy in a field, i couldn't say bye to my friend because he cant carry me around if he is otherwise happy... lord knows he has put up with me like a champ!
His field and hay would range between £40 and £100.00 a month, insurance i would probably stop as exclusions are becoming a bit vast. I would keep his stable on and then i would down the line have the option of another but it sounds silly i cant imagine another horse, its just him!
I'd love to keep riding but i'll tackle that bridge when i come to it, whether it be a loan or lessons ect, i do feel a bit cheated that it was all really starting to come together :(
i guess i just want to hear stories of those that had these issues but still went on and on for years, as pets or otherwise.
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Completely understand your feelings. I had the same with my mare (she had different issues to your boy), I kept her retired from April until one day in June she was walking slightly off in the field. I called the vet and took her in at their first appointment. It wasn't good news BUT I would have kept her in a field as long as she was happy and comfortable.

I did start to look for another when she was retired but a mixture of unsuitable (lame) horses and my lack of confidence didn't help, plus they weren't her. J still isn't her but he isn't meant to replace her, he is my new friend.

Anyway, I am waffling, I hope you do get to hear people's experiences but you know your horse.
 
HK I completely understand where you are coming from. I retired my Horse of a life time as I couldn't keep her sound enough to be ridden. Like you there was no way I'd pass her on and I loved her so so much. She had over a year of happy retirement before I could no longer keep her field sound and she was PTS (in 2 days it will be 1 whole year!) I could not afford 2 Horses, so for the year she was retired I began to share, I still currently share rather then own as I am not sure I could deal with the heartbreak and risk of getting another for he/she to go lame.

My current share Horse has mild arthritis in his spine and neck. His owner no longer rides him apart from the odd hack so he is semi retired. I ride 2 to 3 times a week, but I am happy to plod around the lanes and do minimal school work so it works. He is sound enough for the work load he is in so it can be done. He does not have any bute currently, but does get stiff when very cold. We make sure he is plenty warm enough and I always do a long warm up (after the first canter he is super!) at the moment is he more then happy to work.
 
Mine was put to sleep 3 1\2 months after been told not to ride her. She was unsteady initially and i was asked by my vet to take her to Oakham. However, due to her age (24) and the fact i didnt think it fair to walk her up and down the lorry ramp and travel 2 hours each way with lord only knows what at the other end, she didnt go. Fortunately Oakham agreed with me that it wasnt the right thing to do (vet not impressed). She has steroid and anti-flam injections and although she wasnt ridden again, she had good days and bad. Good days, it was like i had a normal Holly in the field. Bad days, she was slow to move her legs round when turning and i could hear her bumping into the side of the stable. She couldnt be turned out in anything other than a small paddock to stop her getting up some speed and falling over. In the end i made the decision to have her pts based on her quality of life. She wasnt in any pain, but i didnt want to see her get worse or suffer, so whilst she wasnt in pain and happy i let her go. It broke my heart but i know it was the right thing for Holly.

I never did get a firm diagnosis because of not going to Oakham but ataxia and wobblers was mentioned.

Sorry i cant give you a good resolution story, but hope you find a way to keep your horse happy and pain free.
 
Jay had similar. The strong oral steroids for 6 weeks did settle it somewhat, we had the summer hacking round the village. Then another 6 months fully retired.

Jay could have lived here forever in retirement, but after the above time, he started to find it difficult to turn round in the stable. He was still sound to trot a circle, looked in prime show condition in fact, but stumbled and a strong wind caused him issues.

I had him PTS at home. He was my pal. I still miss him and have not really felt comfortable on a horse in the same way since.
 
HK have you been able to have a chat like this with your vet? When mine got her diagnosis I asked him directly whether she would be suffering as a field ornament or not, and he was really clear with me that unless she deteriorated at an unexpected rate, what they had seen on x ray was not likely to cause her any pain or difficulty at liberty because she won't choose to put herself in a position that makes it hurt.
That gave me some peace of mind and made it pretty easy for me to live with my decision to keep her on as a pet.

Some of them go downhill really fast as you will have read in this thread. But I have had my mare for 2 years now, and she obviously had this injury for some time before I got her, so she's lived several years without it becoming something that will compromise her welfare, now that we know about it and can manage her appropriately. I'm not medicating her until/if it becomes more of an issue so we are probably at a bit of a different point there, but I am not expecting to *need* to PTS for a long time yet, though obviously I could have chosen to way back in the spring.

I think my situation is possibly different because we know it was caused by injury rather than standard arthritic changes but I would try and be frank with them, although they will not be able to give a firm prognosis at this stage, it might help you to have their view on it now?
 
He literally turned my world on its head, i was happily loaning a pony that was moving so after a lot of thinking i started to look for my own, went to see a few and they just weren't at all right and then the sweetest video went on horsemart of a pink cob 10 miles away, he was popping over small jumps and coming back to trot like a really sweetheart. The next day i went to see him with a friend and there he was! at the time he seemed like the biggest horse id ever seen, thin but incredibly sweet. I rode him 3 times and every time i left the dealers i felt sick knowing id found the one (i honestly didn't expect to find anything)
At the time i was due to be married in 3 months and had been planning everything, as soon as he arrived i couldn't give a stuff about the wedding he just took over. Id had him home for all but 20 minutes and i was face down in a puddle of mud trying to keep hold of the bugger as he bolted off to see his new friends, i couldn't eat for a week after that thinking what have i done, he is beast!!! I went through about 6 months of just being so so nervous of him as he was mine and it was all on me (i was a bit out of my depth) but as time went on everything started to fall into place. I used to be scared to sit on him but now i feel i know him so well, if he is going to have me off i know the spooky move that will come and i know he will just stand next to me as i compose my self on the floor lol
Every time i go and see him (sometimes 3 times a day) he will always neigh and grumble at me as i lead him. He is the biggest trier and a utter beast when he wants to be. He has taught me more than i could ever of hoped (to be honest i think most other horses would be easier than him lol) but we are on the biggest adventure. Im totally heartbroken at the prospect of just watching him get worse and eventually knowing i will have the worst decision ever to make, i had hoped he would be around for at least 10 more years.

Sorry don't mean to sound like a pity party, just reflecting on everything and really appreciated the fact i struck gold when i found him (maybe not in soundness and health ways) but in terms of a girl dreaming of a owning a horse he has been a chaotic but amazing adventure that's looking to be taking a change of direction all to early.
 
Horsekaren said:
Im totally heartbroken at the prospect of just watching him get worse and eventually knowing i will have the worst decision ever to make, i had hoped he would be around for at least 10 more years.
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Really do feel for you HK, its a awful thought and I know exactly how you are feeling :( As MP said it might not be as bad as you are thinking. Have a real long chat with your vet and speak about all your worries. My little cob would of been with me forever, bought from the gypsies unbacked and a nervous wreck nearly 6 years ago. He was my absolute world, but he would of been in gradually more pain retired any longer so it was the right decision as couldn't leave him in pain.

I really do hope he has a positive outcome, don't feel to down until you've spoken to the vet properly x
 
HK - it's not wobblers but the 4 legged love of my life is retired and one day I know I'll have to make the call because of his arthritis. Until then he gets to be a pet and I'm fine with paying for that. Talk to your vet - but right now if yours can happily jump out of his field then you've got plenty of time left to enjoy him I suspect, even if it isn't doing everything you hoped xx
 
milliepops said:
I would have been having the same thoughts if I only had the option of keeping mine at livery. Fortunately she is out with my other retirees at no additional cost to me in terms of time or money. A friend had a 4yo diagnosed and she was dependent on livery so did decide to PTS. It's a terribly hard decision but it's also not the wrong one, if that is what is best for you personally.
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I think it also depends (rightly or wrongly) on how much the horse has "given" you. I have had horses put down that were unrideable (well, one horse) because as much as I loved him I'd barely ridden him, hadn't "done" things with him etc. I felt he'd had a lovely retirement from racing in the short time he was with me, but that I wasn't prepared to pay for him for potentially another 15 years.

My current horse (and my last would have if the universe hadn't cruelly taken him) will have a home for life, even though it would have to be on suitable livery (ridden or unridden, doesn't matter). I can't imagine after the hours in the saddle out hunting with my best mate, putting him down if he couldn't carry me anymore (so long as he could be a happy field ornament) just so I could afford to have one that I could ride. I'd miss riding terribly, but not as much as I'd miss the horse himself.

It's a very personal decision.

Op, in yours, I think you have to weigh up what you want from a horse. What you can afford and what you can live with. If riding is the most important thing for you then PTS would be the kindest thing for this chap I think -unless you are happy light hacking.
 
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