New Foal 7 months old NEED ADVICE ASAP!

[Englishcowgirl91]

Inca my 6 month foal arrived safely to me two days ago.

So originally I thought I would find a small yard stable and a field and go from there however no yard would take him without him being gelded but my own feeling was that it would be best to wait until at least the spring when he becomes a yearling.
I decided to go with a friend who owns a stud yard and he offered to turn him out with other youngsters. At first he said that he would be in with the other foals more near his age however he has been put in a field turned out with a small herd of 2 year olds. I suppose it could be a problem but on the other hand it could be ok? The guy who owns the stud said that his will be out now until 2/3. The foal has been doing the basics at the breeders before coming to me and has a lovelt calm temprement. I am worried that being turned out for that amount of time with nothing more will cause him to lose that personality or forget what he has learnt? I am in completly two minds about it. One side of me feels to be in a herd as a young horse will be good for a little while but the other part of me is worrying that I should be doing more. I suppose everyone has a different way of raising foals and doing things. I don't want to leave him for years and then do everything..

The guy who has offered the field and for my foal to join the herd means well and has been a great help! but I have to acknowledge that he has a different end goal and way of doing things.

The foal has come from his breeders and been used to cuddles, leading, feet being picked up/trimmed and loads really well on and off. His temperament is so calm and willing. He really is an unphased and kind foal.
I am worried that if I leave him in the herd for too long he will lose that personality and he will forget what he has already learnt and been so tolerable with..

Leaving him out in the field with no bonding from me and no human contact until the age of 2 just doesn't feel right for what I feel in my gut I want to achieve with him BUT it also feels right at the same time. I am conflicted!!

The guy has mentioned about him staying until he is 2/3 but my plan was to winter him in this field with the herd until he is a yearling which will be in another 5 months or so and then get him gelded and move to another yard?

He is out on grass with 5/6 2 year olds and unfortunately when I went to see him today one of them would not let him come to the gate to see me and my daughter. My foal tried to walk up to see us but one of the horses turned his back on him and he froze and backed off. He tired again but then another one chased him off Although I know that this is herd behaviour and know that he has only just joined them, where he is much younger It just felt sad to watch and I admittedly felt uncomfortable.

he has been in the foaling box and getting a fuss before he left to come to me and now he is out in the field and I just feel a bit emotional and I am wondering if he is confused and wanting to have that human contact that he has been getting. It is obviously quite a change. But he is a horse and he may not be thinking the way I am
Seeing that behaviour with him and the others made me worried that he isn't being accepted and will be bullied. I don't want him to lose that sweet and calm personality that he has.


Should I just keep him out there until he turns a year and geld then have him in the stable and turn out doing stuff with him?

I spoke to the guy tonight and he mentioned moving him in with the foals instead. That was what I originally thought was happening.

I would really appreciate anyone advice!

He is also just on the grass in the field. he will need the hay/haylage when it gets more winter and the grass is baron?

I just want to do the right thing and have a kind, lovely and most importantly happy little horse

 

[gallopingby]

All foals need consistent handling if they are going to grow into sensible adults, they also need friends of their own age and feeding appropriately. Some are gelded whilst still with their mothers, and many, even native hill bred foals are housed for the first winter. Your job will be much more difficult if he is allowed to be feral over the first winter and putting him in with 2 year olds when there are foals of a similar age for him to play with is frankly bonkers. Why did you buy a foal if you don’t have experience or facilities? It isn’t usual to keep a horse in a stable immediately after gelding, they need to be able to walk around outside. It sounds as if the breeder has put a lot of effort in and you need to make sure this isn’t wasted. You can’t just chuck a foal in a field with a load of other horses and expect it to fend for itself and be a lovely kind horse unless you’ve handled it properly. Find a yard with experienced people and get him gelded asap then you’re more likely to end up with the horse you want. l hope you find somewhere safe to keep him.

 

[Englishcowgirl91]

All foals need consistent handling if they are going to grow into sensible adults, they also need friends of their own age and feeding appropriately. Some are gelded whilst still with their mothers, and many, even native hill bred foals are housed for the first winter. Your job will be much more difficult if he is allowed to be feral over the first winter and putting him in with 2 year olds when there are foals of a similar age for him to play with is frankly bonkers. Why did you buy a foal if you don’t have experience or facilities? It isn’t usual to keep a horse in a stable immediately after gelding, they need to be able to walk around outside. It sounds as if the breeder has put a lot of effort in and you need to make sure this isn’t wasted. You can’t just chuck a foal in a field with a load of other horses and expect it to fend for itself and be a lovely kind horse unless you’ve handled it properly. Find a yard with experienced people and get him gelded asap then you’re more likely to end up with the horse you want. l hope you find somewhere safe to keep him.

Thank you for taking the time to reply
I agree with you on consistent handling and my original plan was to go to facilities that could accommodate that however I would have had a hard job finding a yard to take him unless he was gelded first which yes can be done but I felt I would wait until he was a year. He is an American Paint and I am in touch with the rancher who started all of this and she doesn't geld hers until 18 months. She has a wealth of experience that I wouldn't dare criticise.
I felt that it was best to take him to a stud to be around the foals his age however like I have explained he was put out with the 2 year olds which I am not comfortable with so I also agree with you on that one. I am sorting him being moved in with the foals who are his age. I would also say that gelding a horse in a stable and keeping them in there is not wise and it should be done in a field unless there are complications. Best time is spring or autumn, less flies and mud.

I am sorry that you felt that my post made me sound as if I didn't have experience and a dummy. I have worked with horses of all characters, foals ect and worked as a equine nurse for 5 years. Sometimes when it comes to your own you get a bit lost for thought and I thought these forums were a place to get friendly advice not criticism and to be somewhat belittled.
Although I do agree with some of what you said and I feel that the points you have made are what I was already expressing..

Like I said I know what I need to do but when it comes to your own you want to get it right and it is nice to get others thoughts to clarify.

If you have any more advice then Ill happily take it on board You can never stop learning!

 

[Sandstone1]

You would be better to geld in winter as if you wait until spring you will have flies to deal with.

 

[Barton Bounty]

Pretty much no yard will take him unless he is gelded so that would be first on the list.

Secondly I get that its all new with a young baby, but you really need to know what you are doing to handle youngsters.

Forage is 90% of a horses diet so he will need hay or haylage supplemented if there is no grass.

 

[Patterdale]

This is the best possible situation for your foal.

They do NOT need regular handling, this usually causes more problems than it solves.

A solid start (which he’s had) and healthy - mentally and physically - formative years, are far FAR more important. Regular positive interactions with humans, yes - going up to give him some treats, getting in for feet trimmed every 3-4 months. But they don’t need anything else.

I buy just-weaned foals every year so I do know what I’m talking about.

 

[Patterdale]

Ps - foal plus 2 year olds is fine. 2 year olds play too!

 

[JBM]

My foal is in a field with a 1yo, 3yo, 4yo, two 12yo and a 22yo
He’s having a blast
I see him once a day to check on the horses I did handle him when he was younger he can pick up his feet and loooves attention
He still comes up to me in the field for a scratch but the herd has taught him the manners a colt needs!
I know it can be hard seeing them bullied at the start but they settle down eventually!
Just being a horse is the best thing for them mentally
Foals do NOT need constant handling they need other horses to teach them manners and herd behaviour

 

[Glitterandrainbows]

Mines not gelded & we’ve not had any problems with the horses not accepting him I’d keep trying yards what’s area are you maybe someone has a suggestion ? Mine is also a weanling he’s in over night gets lead a short distance away to go out with his “surrogate mum” who’s half the size of him and slowly getting accustomed to life untill April then he will be turned out fully I honestly don’t think he’d cope out full time now as he sleeps in his stable but he has company over the door so feels safe it’s awful weather we’re we are in Yorkshire

 

[ycbm]

All foals need consistent handling if they are going to grow into sensible adults

They don't.

I have had two horses, one unhandled until three and three other until four. Their handling consisted of being trapped for gelding and released again.

They were both lovely horses to handle after a few days.

The really old horse trainers around here say they would far rather have a completely unhandled horse who is of an age to break in than one that's been handled all its life, especially by someone who wants to make a pet of it or bond with it.

ECG, your foal is in the right place and you should leave him there until he is nearly ready to be ridden.
.

 

[ihatework]

The only thing about that situation I would be a little edgy about is putting a newly weaned foal straight out with 2yo’s. I have no issue with mixed age Youngstock groups, but integrating a foal I would ideally want to do with the dam or a couple of quiet yearlings first.

That said, it’s done now. They will settle over time. Being in a herd and not over handled is perfect imo. You can still go and see them frequently for cuddles, pop a head collar on, lift feet etc. It’s the way all mine have been brought up and they are all very easy to handle - in fact it’s something often commented on

 

[gallopingby]

They don't.

I have had two horses, one unhandled until three and three other until four. Their handling consisted of being trapped for gelding and released again.

They were both lovely horses to handle after a few days.

The really old horse trainers around here say they would far rather have a completely unhandled horse who is of an age to break in than one that's been handled all its life, especially by someone who wants to make a pet of it or bond with it.

ECG, your foal is in the right place and you should leave him there until he is nearly ready to be ridden.
.

And l’ve bred rather more than two!! How they fare depends on a whole range of conditions and factors.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

This is the best possible situation for your foal.

They do NOT need regular handling, this usually causes more problems than it solves.

A solid start (which he’s had) and healthy - mentally and physically - formative years, are far FAR more important. Regular positive interactions with humans, yes - going up to give him some treats, getting in for feet trimmed every 3-4 months. But they don’t need anything else.

I buy just-weaned foals every year so I do know what I’m talking about.

This! Your foal is friendly and unafraid of people. This is useful for things like worming, feet, vets. He won't forget that he has no reason to fear you/anyone. Now he can go and be a horse. Over-pampered, cuddled pet foals are FAR more likely to have issues.

The easiest pony I have had was born on the fells and enrtirely unhandled till she was rounded up at 2.

 

[MissMay]

There is nothing worse than an over handled foal as they become a cocky teenager.

Leave him be ideally if you can get him in with the foals so he has a stable group until ready to break all the better

We have been breeding for 10 years and whilst with the dam we do all our handling and teaching pressure release. Get comfortable being touched all over and pick up feet. Once weaned we don't handle at all except for basic worms and feet as you don't need to

They get a short time to be a horse and learn more than you can ever teach him about respect and order of the herd.

He is also only finding his place and once established in the herd and the herd are used to you these problems will go away. Maybe the other horse thought you were bringing treats or feed and your horse is bottom of the pack so not allowed near

 

[TheMule]

Out in a field does not, and must not, mean no handling. But handling can be minimal- in for farrier, jabs, worming etc but otherwise out, being a horse. Of course they’re going to get human contact- they presumably get checked twice a day, that is enough.

 

[Gloi]

He's been handled as a foal and got used to being around people. He won't forget especially if you are still visiting him occasionally. So long as he doesn't get too bullied by any of his companions it will do him good to learn to socialise with the bigger boys.

 

[southerncomfort]

This! Your foal is friendly and unafraid of people. This is useful for things like worming, feet, vets. He won't forget that he has no reason to fear you/anyone. Now he can go and be a horse. Over-pampered, cuddled pet foals are FAR more likely to have issues.

The easiest pony I have had was born on the fells and enrtirely unhandled till she was rounded up at 2.

Same.

My Fell pony lived out on the hills with minimal handling in a herd until they brought him down as a 3 year old.

Always been a joy to handle and was the easiest pony I've ever backed.

OP I actually think your plan to leave him where he is until gelding is perfectly sound.

If he doesn't settle you can always think again.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

All foals need consistent handling if they are going to grow into sensible adults, they also need friends of their own age and feeding appropriately. Some are gelded whilst still with their mothers, and many, even native hill bred foals are housed for the first winter. Your job will be much more difficult if he is allowed to be feral over the first winter and putting him in with 2 year olds when there are foals of a similar age for him to play with is frankly bonkers. You can’t just chuck a foal in a field with a load of other horses and expect it to fend for itself and be a lovely kind horse unless you’ve handled it properly.

You may be an experienced breeder and instinctively know to handle the foals regularly but minimally. That is fine. And what you mean by 'housing' may be very different from what I saw at the youngstock livery yard Felix was at very briefly.

But I think your post can appear to be recommending that the OP overhandles the foals and that foals should live in and not be chucked out with a herd.

I would never house a foal for the first winter - or indeed any horse ever - but foals need exercise to strenghten limbs, bones, tendons and to learn proprioception, balance, sure footedness. Felix was weaned by going to a youngtock livery yard where they housed the foals. He was only there for the briefest period after being separated from his mum, and then he was turned out on a hill with another youngster and a nanny mare, but my heart breals for the poor sods in there for months on end. They could not play or run. They could barely break into a trot in the big barn they were in.

Plus friendly but feral is totally fine. If they are unafraid but curious and playful they will learn really fast.

OP the plans sound fine. Don't worry!

 

[ihatework]

AE I do agree with your sentiment but would also say that first winter after weaning does need a little extra consideration than just turfed out. So in weather extremes I personally would want available shelter/barn for temporary relief. It’s very difficult to get the right balance. But I’m anti barning for extended periods

 

[Ample Prosecco]

Yes Felix and Mylo have always had access to shelter. Hardly ever used it, mind. In that hideous storm last winter I had to walk through snow drifts to get to the field, terrifed I was going to find a field of frozen babies. Or find them huddled in the shelter, miserable and cold. They were out in the snow playing, warm as toast under the fluff, and very happy. Though they do escape the rain if it is prolonged and heavy.

 

[Xmasha]

i guess it depends, how big /what breed your foal is and the 2yos? If for example you have a just weaned 10h pony foal out with strapping 2 yo WB or ID then no thats not suitable for your weanling. If they are of similar size and hes not being bullied than no problem. But it does sound as though he is being bullied from what youve said. How long has he been there?
Also , with the current weather id rather a weanling had access to somewhere dry. I find the first winter is the hardest for them, they need a little extra help.
Im not one for dropping a weanling off and leaving them to it, so much can go wrong.

Youngstock livery is fantastic for those that dont have the right set up, but it needs to be GOOD youngstock livery and not just a field

 

[DabDab]

i guess it depends, how big /what breed your foal is and the 2yos? If for example you have a just weaned 10h pony foal out with strapping 2 yo WB or ID then no thats not suitable for your weanling. If they are of similar size and hes not being bullied than no problem. But it does sound as though he is being bullied from what youve said. How long has he been there?
Also , with the current weather id rather a weanling had access to somewhere dry. I find the first winter is the hardest for them, they need a little extra help.
Im not one for dropping a weanling off and leaving them to it, so much can go wrong.

Youngstock livery is fantastic for those that dont have the right set up, but it needs to be GOOD youngstock livery and not just a field

Totally agree. Anecdotally I've also found that young adult horses who spent their formative years being chased off every resource in their environment tend to be a bit aloof and requiring quite a bit of extra tact in their ridden and ground training. Once that response of scarpering from a pressurised situation has been heavily reinforced by other horses in a herd when they are young, as a human you tend to be always working around that proclivity in future.

A field with other similar age/size/type youngsters and possibly a nanny mare is generally preferable to a single foal in with a bunch of older geldings and colts

 

[ycbm]

And l’ve bred rather more than two!! How they fare depends on a whole range of conditions and factors.

Yes, two was my personal experience, countering your assertion that "ALL", (your word, my caps), foals need regular handling. I know it isn't true, because I've had two which didn't.

You also ignored the rest of my post about VERY experienced breakers who I've spoken to over the years who prefer to start them after very little handling under the age of 3.
.

 

[sportsmansB]

I actually feel genuinely sad when I see people moving horses under 3 onto standard livery yard type scenarios with limited turnout and too much handling.
The worst ones we have ever had on the yard behaviour wise are those who got mollycoddled as youngsters and treated more like pets. The wild ones come around quick but the spoiled ones stay spoiled
As long as he is just learning his place and not getting actually injured it will settle after a week or two.

 

[SEL]

If the field owner is offering to put him in with the foals and you'd feel better about that then worth trying. Otherwise you might find the herd settle down shortly and you can approach your youngster. I'm not sure how old your daughter is but two year old colts can play rough so I wouldn't take her if she's little and might get squished.

 

[teddy_]

The rudest horse I know is one that's been pampered and preened since it was weaned, it's now two coming three next year and it's a complete brute (totally over confident around humans).

IME, the best start is a completely natural one (as hands off as possible). My three year old was frankly feral when I imported her 11 months ago, she's now a complete poppet and totally polite.

 

[Glitterandrainbows]

Just because there in over night doesn’t mean they’re over handled. Poor nervous handling ruins any horse not just foals everyone’s doing the best with what they’ve got do what you thinks best and if in doubt don’t do it..

 

[TheMule]

Just because there in over night doesn’t mean they’re over handled. Poor nervous handling ruins any horse not just foals everyone’s doing the best with what they’ve got do what you thinks best and if in doubt don’t do it..

It doesn’t, but it does generally mean they’re standing in a small box for 16 hours a day, which is indisputably terrible for general physical development, along with the mental under stimulation leading to stereotypical behaviours

 

[Cloball]

My experience (n=8) the ones that were (over) handled from a young age (6) were horrors and very over familiar/ in your face, the ones that were only handled for worming/farrier/changing fields were so much easier.

 

[Glitterandrainbows]

It doesn’t, but it does generally mean they’re standing in a small box for 16 hours a day, which is indisputably terrible for general physical development, along with the mental under stimulation leading to stereotypical behaviours

mine goes out at 6am and in at 6pm but has company over the door to groom etc he doesn’t sleep in the feild laying down swings and roundabouts I wouldn’t want him leaving out all night and wouldn’t want him in for 16 hours like you say