lol how do you know I need to keep my horse at livery? Just because I’m 28 you judge me inexperienced my dads a breeder & has his own farm
never shared never been relevant but obviously you’re trying to look down your nose at me. Not been funny but anyone experienced would know costs need time to adjust to a new climate .
lol how do you know I need to keep my horse at livery? Just because I’m 28 you judge me inexperienced my dads a breeder & has his own farm
The only reason I have replied to you at all is you commented under my post heavily suggesting I’m not acting in his best interests . So yeah I’ll explain why I’ve made that choice.
With a gun to your head what are you actually talking about?? I hardly post any threads ?? imagine been as pathetic as you you really sound unhinged
it is up to everyone to do the best for their foal/youngster and I'm sure that you are. You don't need to explain what you are doing. The foal I mention below probably came in similar circumstances and I did very similar to you.Standing in the hammering rain when they come from a warmer climate and aren’t used to it is better,
that is obviously what studs do but I don't agree with your general principle as that being the gold standard an ideal. That is based on experience of youngsters I have had from studs kept in the gold standard way.
It was literally in your opening post.
This is so true. I bought a 3 year old Welsh A colt as a potentienl lead rein pony, off the stud where he had been bred and shown and was going to be their next stallion. As they had brood mares he was only ever turned out on his own in a school, the rest of the time fed and stabled like a king. A Barbie pony that loved being handled, even as a colt never nipped and could load himself. Unfortuately he had no herd social skills, at first he was turned out with my crafty A, who would just eat all his food, he would wander off leaving his the piles of hay expecting it to still be there when he came back, and the other A scoffed the lot. When I put him in a larger group he rarely interacted with them, they didn't chase him, he was just there, Billy no mates. Eventually he came out of his shell, it took about two years, he is an excellant companion for youngstock, bossy when needed, but not too much.
Because my dads farms far from my house so I choose to keep him we’re I see fit but doesn’t mean I don’t have the option so people need to wind there necks in!!
my 2nd horse was a 2yo arab. He came from a private owner, he had been nicely handled, his manners were excellent. He was used to other horses and everything that we humans do with them. Lets face it being semi feral may be fine for 3 years but for the other 25 or so years of it's life it is going to be very different if it is a domestic ridden horse.
Bit impolite.
Sorry, I have no idea what you’re trying to say
True that
I’ve had more than impolite comments a lot worse than the one I wrote I wasn’t aiming the comment at amy may though @Amymay apolagises if it came across that way I will still continue to use this forum as I absolutely love reading the posts and the advice that is often shared and I do take other peoples opinions on board especially posters that are so experienced I would want there telephone number
! And address if he ever becomes to much (joking don’t shoot me down) for me but I think some comments have been harsh so clapped back!
who was new to the forum and not in the UKIf you researched, and I haven't, studies on adult horses say from 4 onwards what would the results be? I cannot see that in all honesty they would be very different to what you have flagged up for youngsters. They are horses, they should live in in horse groups on very many acres of very varied vegetation allowing them to move all day. Stalls (for which I take to be a loose box) have no place for them. This way they have freedom forage and friends. The gold standard for a horse. No mention or need anywhere for any interaction with humans.The problem with these sorts of discussion is people overvalue their own experiences and preferences, and undervalue the research.
I have not done a full literature review on this but a quick google search came up with the following studies. I did not find a single study suggesting that stalling was preferable to free access to pasture – though many acknowledged it was necessary.
If anyone can find a peer reviewed study supporting barn raising foals for prolonged periods or denying the lack of important of socialisation in a herd, then feel free to post it. Always keen to learn…
Studies on Stereotypies/Behavioural problems
Weaning by confinement in a stable or barn was associated with an increased rate of development of abnormal behaviour, compared with paddock-weaning (RR 2.19, P<0.05), and housing in barns, rather than at grass after weaning, was associated with a further increase.
chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/thehorse/files/C/Young-Horse-Part-2-Six-Months-to-1.5-Years.pdf
For foals 6-18 months. Very detailed but take home messages:
Barn/Box kept foals more at risk of behavioural difficulties than paddock or pasture kept ones.
Conclusion
“Keep stall confinement to a minimum”
For limb strength and soundness:
Managing Young Horses for Sound Growth - Oklahoma State University
The necessary techniques and practices to aid into correctly developing a young sound horse.extension.okstate.edu
Free pasture exercise has been shown to be most advantageous for conditioning of the musculoskeletal system for foals, including tendon and articular cartilage. It is important to not confine young horses….
Free access to exercise may benefit bone and tendon strength and hoof formation because of the self regulation in the amount and intensity of exercise.
Breaking Horses not Bones: Properly Raising Young Horses to Avoid Costly Injuries | Mississippi State University Extension Service
Determining the best age to begin training young horses is a heated debate within the equine industry. While many believe that horses should be skeletally mature when training begins, others believe it is unnecessary to wait 6 years until skeletal maturity. An online poll by an equine feed...extension.msstate.edu
About older horses (2-3) but can’t see why this should not apply even more so to rapidly growing youngsters:
Stalling reduces bone density, cartilage and increases risk or lower limb injuries.
On the importance of company:
Behavioral and hormonal assessment of stress in foals (Equus caballus) throughout the weaning process - PMC
This study had the aim to demonstrate the midterm effects (three weeks) of weaning on foals’ welfare. For this purpose, foals’ behavioral changes and fecal levels metabolites of cortisol were evaluated. The observations took place at the state stud ...www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Our results furthermore suggest a benefit of companion animals throughout the weaning process. Even though hierarchic encounters naturally cause stress in the foal, companions provide the opportunity to perform care-soliciting behaviors such as mutual grooming.
Moreover, horses evolved as social herd animals, and adult horses are often housed in groups at least for some time during the day. Thus, one may assume that foals learning to integrate into social structures will have better adaptation skills as adult horses.
Concerning foals and young horses, it is stated as mandatory to keep them in groups with same-aged horses. It is also suggested to keep an older horse within the group for educational reasons and stress reduction, which has been confirmed by the work of Erber et al. [4].
So as far as I can tell anyone who barn keeps or stalls a foal for prolonged period, or does not leave a foal with other horses to teach them to be a horse, is operating against the evidence base no matter how common and familiar that method may seem to be. And no matter how nicely foals raised that way have turned out. All you can ever do is stack the deck in your favour. But of course some foals will struggle out and some thrive in. But the evidence shows that it is preferable to have them out in company for multioke reasons.
As IHW says - freedom, forage, friends are fundamental rights for any horse. Some can't have them for whatever reason, but that is the gold standard as far as current research and advice goes.
I agree. I see they are still there but in their position I wouldn't bother to post again. It seems to have become I have raised X foals and I know better than you who have only raised Y. Or alternatively the research says this and there can be no dissenters.I feel rather sorry for the OP of this thead.
The only person I see doing the "my way or the highway" thing here is you, actually. No one has said everything suits all horses or situations, what many people have tried to say is that certain things will be better for the horse than others. Experience and research are both extremely useful for people who have little of either. The fact that you are so very dismissive of that is....interesting. A small sample size of, what? Is hardly conclusive.I agree. I see they are still there but in their position I wouldn't bother to post again. It seems to have become I have raised X foals and I know better than you who have only raised Y. Or alternatively the research says this and there can be no dissenters.
Perhaps it is more a case of looking at situations on a more individual basis and realising that what works for one is different for another. Alternatively all these horses should live as totally feral horses and we shouldn't bother them. Then there is the real world.
