New Horse behaving differently!

louf

louf

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I know this is the age-old scenario, but some advice would be gratefully received please! I bought a new horse in January. He is Welsh D, rising 6, who, when I tried him was fantastic. Calm, good when being schooled and out hacking, not spooky, nappy or worried about much, but also forward going with brakes! He seemed perfect and he is a lovely person also.
He has been with me for more than two months now, and I still can't ride him in the school unless he's with another horse. Yesterday I took him in there on his own (wearing my brave pants, obviously) and he bronced me across the school, spooked at all the horses in the field around the outside of the school and wouldn't go near the raised poles on the ground - despite being a fantastic show-jumper who has competed! He also naps badly when I hack him out (always with other horses) and gets really stressed if he is brought in when other horses are out - there are 19 other horses on our yard so he is never in alone, but if his immediate neighbours are still out he is noisy and bargy in the stable. This makes things difficult in the fact that sometimes my working hours dictate I have to ride when no one else is around.
I have been working hard on his ground manners, which are mostly really good - unless he is stressing about the others still being out - and he has had his saddle checked recently, so it isn't that. His teeth were done just before I bought him.
I know it can take up to a year for a horse to settle into a new yard (he was only on his old one for 4 months though) and that I must continue to be patient, but I am beginning to think it is me and that I don't have the experience needed to support him. I know everything points to the fact that he doesn't want to be alone, but if I have to wait for others to be schooling at the same time I will rarely get chance to ride him. Yesterday I wanted to get him to understand that being alone doesn't mean everything is scary and that he could still see other horses despite being alone in the school, but this backfired spectacularly!
I love him dearly, but yesterday I cried when I finished trying to get him to walk round the school calmly - I don't want to lose my confidence and I want to help him get through this settling in period, so any advice would be great, thank you.
Sorry for the long post!
:)
 
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Oh yes, meant to include that haha! He is on all-day turnout and in at night - wasn't getting as much where he was - and his feed is the same, a handful of nuts and a handful of chaff. He is a good doer!
 
Firstly he is Welsh, they can do a good line in over dramatic anxiety meltdown. You might need to adopt the firm but fair ‘just man up’ approach with him.

Cut out all food - seriously.

Is he turned out alone or with others?

Are his old owners local? Could you ask their advice?
 
Is there anyone else there who can pop on him for you? We have a lady in her 20s who will get on anything and has a good feel for whether its behaviour or something else. Takes a lot to unstick her if they throw in some acrobatics. Any freelancers around?

You'll get an idea then whether it is a welshie being very welsh or something that needs attention.
 
Just wanted to say youre not alone with finding yourself with a different horse to the one you tried - I was crying after 4 days!
It can be very unsettling moving homes especially as you say he was only in his last home a few months.
What has worked & is still working for us is lots & lots of groundwork as well as lots of ridden work.
This way we are building up a bond of trust.
It also takes a year of going through the different seasons to find out how they can affect them.
Also ruling out any pain issues by proper saddle checks, physio, vet, farrier/barefoot specialist etc etc. & excellent trainer to help along the way.
Don't be too disheartened as we've all been there!
 
He is turned out in an individual paddock, with 10 other horses around him. He has a different saddle, fitted by a saddle fitter as he came with no saddle. I haven't contacted the person who sold him to me as she was selling him on behalf of a client, but will message her. Just thought that would be a last resort! :)
 
My own (welsh, had a long time, know well) definitely struggled with individual turnout (and yes surrounded by others). It wasn't intentional just a bit of a default due to people leaving/others buying second horses etc and he'd already been established at that yard for nearly 3 years.

The trouble is that once they hit high anxiety state (for whatever reason) they aren't very good at self regulating and coming down again. I did slowly learn to judge where a man up and a softly softly would be helpful.

I'd actually consider a different yard 4 months on.
 
Individual turnout doesn't always suit some horses especially if they have been used to company, it could just be his not settled horses can be so different depending on where they are, you could try lunging before you ride do it every time for at least 20 minutes with him working properly then get on and stick with this routine everyday, might be worth finding a good instructor to work with you it will give you confidence having someone just being there.
 
What were you doing with him when you were in the school? Were you just going round the edge of the school in walk hoping he'd calm down? Mine can be like this when she's in the school on her own (half Welsh - think there's a theme here!) and the best way to stop her messing about is to get her working - circles, shoulder in, leg yield, turns on the forehand, serpentines with circles in each loop.....just get their brains working. And if her head comes up to look at the other horses she gets firmly put back in the right shape and made to do a small circle.

It also helps with mine to go up to anything she is spooking at and let her have a sniff. Then she realises it isn't scary and ignores it. Do it in hand if necessary. They are a lot braver if they think the scary thing will eat you first, so mine takes courage from me walking ahead of her and touching it first.

Oh and add salt to the diet if you aren't already - helps mine be less spooky - better than any calmer!
 
This thread could be worth a read, some similarities

https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/...at-i-expected-should-i-give-it-all-up.774043/

My dressage horse was a bit of a nightmare when I first got her, had a lovely small full livery yard, pretty idyllic and whilst she was fine to handle she was very tricky to ride - exceptionally spooky & over reactive and quite nappy to hack. I nearly sent her back but moved her to a big livery yard as a last resort and she was a changed horse literally overnight. So sometimes just the yard environment can help.

I bought a welsh x 18 months ago (although an enormous one) and on the ground he showed similar traits to what you describe. Unsettled, clingy to others (would jump or go through fencing if any buddies were bought in). Generally a low level PITA. Very fidgety to get on/off and couldn’t cope with standing still! On the whole behaved very well under saddle but did go through an awful 7-10 days where he tested every boundary. I’d say it took about 6 months to get him truely settled and now he is such a doddle that it seems a distant memory. I kept him on valerian for 3 months and I also didn’t take any crap from him - set expectations and he had to comply, he’s actually better for it. The only thing I did do was stage manage the turnout with the assistance of some very nice other DIYs so he didn’t get undue stress from that.
 
it does sound like the fundamental set up of the yard isn't suiting him.
I also have a welsh that is prone to dramatic episodes and I know her inside out now, so know exactly how to manage her to minimise triggering her hysteria.
Individual turnout works for mine but she is pair bonded with my other horse so that's the only reason why! :rolleyes:

He's at an age where you are still setting him up for his adult life. Teaching him to square up is one part of it, but being on a yard that suits his individual needs is another IMO.
 
ihatework said:
Firstly he is Welsh, they can do a good line in over dramatic anxiety meltdown. You might need to adopt the firm but fair ‘just man up’ approach with him.

Cut out all food - seriously.

Is he turned out alone or with others?

Are his old owners local? Could you ask their advice?
Click to expand...

I would agree with this. Most section D’s I’ve come across (not all because that would be a sweeping generalisation) but they are quite fiery and sensitive.
I’ve found they take a while for change to settle and they do require an owner with patience but also the ability to know when they are taking the P.
 
Also mine was 12 when he came, he isn't actually very welsh a lot of the time, definitely not firey! he had a long history of good manners, he was a continual fidget for at least 6 months so I can see why the 'babies' struggle!
His welshness mostly comes out in the presence of the dentist, at 26 for the first time ever he didn't actually try to go through him at all yesterday...
 
Cowpony said:
What were you doing with him when you were in the school? Were you just going round the edge of the school in walk hoping he'd calm down? Mine can be like this when she's in the school on her own (half Welsh - think there's a theme here!) and the best way to stop her messing about is to get her working - circles, shoulder in, leg yield, turns on the forehand, serpentines with circles in each loop.....just get their brains working. And if her head comes up to look at the other horses she gets firmly put back in the right shape and made to do a small circle.

It also helps with mine to go up to anything she is spooking at and let her have a sniff. Then she realises it isn't scary and ignores it. Do it in hand if necessary. They are a lot braver if they think the scary thing will eat you first, so mine takes courage from me walking ahead of her and touching it first.

Oh and add salt to the diet if you aren't already - helps mine be less spooky - better than any calmer!
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All good points.

Mine was a ridiculous twit in the school yesterday as she could hear the horses that are newly turned out into their summer paddocks through the hedge surround the school. I couldn't get any sense from her while trying to warm up so we got straight to work so she was thinking less about things she could spook at and more about what we were doing. She did some nice work eventually (though tired earlier than usual because she'd been so stressy!)

It's easy with mine because she doesn't frighten me in the slightest even in her most ridiculous moments. If the OP feels her confidence ebbing away then I would say it's worth getting some professional help in the form of another rider or an instructor to give some structure to training sessions while they are both struggling.
 
Its not easy if your confidence is low and welshies are known to be a bit like that, especially 'teenage' ones
Sounds like you are doing your best with the management at the moment (turnout, small feed etc)
Can you lunge him in the school before you get on? Has a double effect of introducing the school but also warming him up, you can get on and be very businesslike immediately, insisting on trot / canter, circles and shapes, even a bit of low level lateral- rather than feeling you have to walk slowly around which gives them more time for mischief making!

I ALWAYS feel more comfortable and braver in a lesson situation - somehow I feel like I am sharing the burden with someone, and the pressure to do the right thing is taken off me and I can concentrate on following instructions. An instructor who would be willing to get on and show you how to deal with the scenarios might be a good bet?
 
louf said:
He is turned out in an individual paddock, with 10 other horses around him. He has a different saddle, fitted by a saddle fitter as he came with no saddle. I haven't contacted the person who sold him to me as she was selling him on behalf of a client, but will message her. Just thought that would be a last resort! :)
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I would dig a bit further, was he at the sales livery yard for 4 months, that seems a long time to have a sensible horse in for sale, or was he only owned for 4 months in which case I would wonder if the horse you have is the one the last owner gave up on but being in a pro yard with a pro rider settled him down enough for you to see another side of him, either way it is always worth contacting previous owners to see if they did anything with him that you have not yet tried.
Some do take a while to fully settle and it may well be that individual turnout is making him very stressed so a yard move or finding a horse to go with him may be the best way forward.
 
Thank you for all your replies - really helpful!
Firstly, his turnout is in a huge field - literally acres - divided up into individual paddocks which are plenty large enough, but he is next to 3 other horses all 3 of whom he interacts with regularly - grooming, playing, etc.
He was owned by the previous owner for literally a couple of months before he went to the sales livery as the old owner lost her nerve (not due to him but to another horse on the yard) and her daughter (he was a mother-daughter share) lost interest.
Unfortunately - or otherwise :) - there is no chance of moving yards for many reasons, which I won't go into here, so I will obviously have to persevere with his behaviour in this instance.
I agree with the lesson situation - I also feel braver, so will sort out lessons immediately. It was a plan, but I was unsure if it was the right thing to do seeing as he doesn't do well in the arena alone!
When I was in the arena I was initially just trying to get him to walk forward (as he kept planting) and once I had managed that I was attempting to turn in circles, do some serpentines etc, but as soon as he got to a certain point he would wheel around and run back to the fence, and I actually couldn't stop him. He did get better the more I walked him round, and obviously, not wanting to end on a rubbish note, I walked him quietly and calmly, incorporating some circles where possible, but it was very demoralising to be honest.
I have contacted the person who was selling him and will await her reply!
I also will make sure I have very deep pockets, full of patience and calmness. I know that in a year's time I will look back on this and hopefully laugh! He has the potential to be such a fantastic horse!
 
louf said:
Thank you for all your replies - really helpful!
Firstly, his turnout is in a huge field - literally acres - divided up into individual paddocks which are plenty large enough, but he is next to 3 other horses all 3 of whom he interacts with regularly - grooming, playing, etc.
He was owned by the previous owner for literally a couple of months before he went to the sales livery as the old owner lost her nerve (not due to him but to another horse on the yard) and her daughter (he was a mother-daughter share) lost interest.
Unfortunately - or otherwise :) - there is no chance of moving yards for many reasons, which I won't go into here, so I will obviously have to persevere with his behaviour in this instance.
I agree with the lesson situation - I also feel braver, so will sort out lessons immediately. It was a plan, but I was unsure if it was the right thing to do seeing as he doesn't do well in the arena alone!
When I was in the arena I was initially just trying to get him to walk forward (as he kept planting) and once I had managed that I was attempting to turn in circles, do some serpentines etc, but as soon as he got to a certain point he would wheel around and run back to the fence, and I actually couldn't stop him. He did get better the more I walked him round, and obviously, not wanting to end on a rubbish note, I walked him quietly and calmly, incorporating some circles where possible, but it was very demoralising to be honest.
I have contacted the person who was selling him and will await her reply!
I also will make sure I have very deep pockets, full of patience and calmness. I know that in a year's time I will look back on this and hopefully laugh! He has the potential to be such a fantastic horse!
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We tried a few tactics with my current horse when he went through a very brief, but very naughty spell. He was doing a mixture of plant, nap, launch, run backwards type of manouvres. I was very lucky in having a trainer who saw an early episode and was passing by my yard every morning - so she did me 20 minutes every morning for a week, lunge whip holding and morale boosting mostly. After a couple of days she told me to get angry with him vocally and mean it. So I did a full on screaming banshee fishwife impression the nanosecond he thought about not going forwards. It worked a treat! The only message for nappy/planty types is go forwards - kick flap scream to get it, the minute they go you must stop the pressure.
It took about 3 days to have a compliant horse again!
 
I also had one who was an eejit by himself - calling and stopping getting on - and I was being probably a bit soft about it.
My trainer told me to shout at him and slap him on the neck when he did it, as he didn't appear to realise that it was not appropriate- but he was a sweet horse who generally wanted to please. It made a big difference once he realised that behaviour was actually not 'allowed'. Sounds daft but it really helped.
 
I think the input from previous owner/rider would be useful in this instance so I hope they get back to you, OP. The reason I would say that is because at 6 he's not a complete baby so they might be able to tell you about how they've dealt with him in the past.
My nappy one gets worse if you up the ante, for instance (much much worse but she was well and truly ruined ;) )

Is there anything about his field that he is not sure about? Just wondering whether there is something about your yard that is not suiting him but that you *can* change. Mine gets hysterical if she is in a field with too much in the way of hedges or trees :rolleyes: she can't cope with the thought of monsters lurking in them. She's 100% settled if she's in the middle of a field even if it looks like the most boring paddock in the place.
Likewise with the stable, would he be best if he could see another horse or does he appreciate privacy etc etc. Lots of people won't pander to a horse like that and I understand why, but when they are so unsettled sometimes it pays to think about their living conditions on a day to day basis and see if they are contributing to the problem.
 
That somewhat reminds me of the reaction we had when someone had the audacity to remove one of their fence panels at the end of their garden temporarily...
 
ester said:
That somewhat reminds me of the reaction we had when someone had the audacity to remove one of their fence panels at the end of their garden temporarily...
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lol!
sometimes they just are who they are ;) no amount of Manning Up will change Kira re the hedge thing, god knows I've tried. She is the same with hedges at shows, out hacking, you name it, she just *doesn't do hedges* :eek: but at least I know what the problem is, which makes it 100% easier to deal with... so we can cope with a short hedge encounter but if she was asked to live by one then she'd stress herself into a greyhound shaped bundle of nerves.
 
And to be fair, MP is right! If I had done what I did to my welshy boy, to my ginger dressage diva then all hell would have broken loose!
 
sportsmansB said:
I also had one who was an eejit by himself - calling and stopping getting on - and I was being probably a bit soft about it.
My trainer told me to shout at him and slap him on the neck when he did it, as he didn't appear to realise that it was not appropriate- but he was a sweet horse who generally wanted to please. It made a big difference once he realised that behaviour was actually not 'allowed'. Sounds daft but it really helped.
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This actually sounds like a plan too. Thank you. I have organised a hack out with a calm older horse this weekend and will ride him in the school tomorrow with another horse. I will also sort out some lessons over the next couple of weeks but will make sure I am firm - and if necessary get shouty with him! The girl who was selling him has replied asking if I want her to come and see if there’s anything she can do. She said he was fine the entire time he was with her so not much joy!
I will persevere with him and try some of the suggestions here. Thank you 😊 for all your ideas and comments. X
 
louf said:
This actually sounds like a plan too. Thank you. I have organised a hack out with a calm older horse this weekend and will ride him in the school tomorrow with another horse. I will also sort out some lessons over the next couple of weeks but will make sure I am firm - and if necessary get shouty with him! The girl who was selling him has replied asking if I want her to come and see if there’s anything she can do. She said he was fine the entire time he was with her so not much joy!
I will persevere with him and try some of the suggestions here. Thank you 😊 for all your ideas and comments. X
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Take the seller up on it. I always think that type of offer is a positive thing.
 
Definitely get her to come see, it might be enlightening.

We actually got Frank's previous previous owner to come. The person we bought him off hadn't had him very long, ridden him much and had limited ability. We figured we were missing a lot of info about him previously/why he was having some issues and they were a bit concerned where he had gone being sold so quickly.
It was absolutely the best thing to do, they brought videos with them and the teen was a much better rider than either of us were at the time so we learned loads too :).
 
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