New horse declared loss of use due to old injury

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Horse1979

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Hi all,
Looking for some advise.
I purchased a horse in December. Went through 5 stage vetting no problem. He was brought to do PC activities, dressage, sj, XC, one day events.
After a month he had a subtle lameness which we thought maybe he had hurt himself in field. It was only in walk. A few weeks passed and it would come and go so decided to get it checked out. Long story short- he has been with vet for two days, nerve blocks, X-rays, scans. He has severe suspensory damage to right hind and vet says he will be declared loss of use. He is only in light ish work at the moment with my daughter being at school and nights dark in the winter.
He was purchased in December. He was not a cheap pony, all in all around £8,000. Vet says injury is old- looks like impact injury.
I am too angry to speak to old owners as I am positive they have sold him in the hope the injury would be fine. Where do I stand? My daughter has spent 3 months bonding, having weekly dressage lessons( he hasn't been easiest of ponies either) all new tack, rugs, bridles as he was a lot bigger than previous pony. General heart ache for her.
Do I have a case against them? If so what's my first steps?
I'm so angry- and want justice.
Owning a pony for 6 years you would have thought they would have wanted what is best for the pony rather than sell him for a lot of money when the poor pony is not up to the job.
Any help or advise would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you.
 
If his old vet records show the injury then I think you'd have some come back, but as the 5 stage vetting was clear they could argue that it was all healed when you bought him so didn't need to be declared.
I think I'd want proper legal advice. As you say it's not as if he was cheap.
 
I would refer this to a specialist equine solicitor. Did you or your examining vet ask to see the existing veterinary records of the pony pre vetting ?
 
I'd go one further and say that the timing of the lameness suggests that the pony might have been medicated for the vetting. I would check with your vet quickly whether the bloods are still available for testing. Such an upsetting thing for your daughter, and very annoying.
 
meleeka said:
If his old vet records show the injury then I think you'd have some come back, but as the 5 stage vetting was clear they could argue that it was all healed when you bought him so didn't need to be declared.
I think I'd want proper legal advice. As you say it's not as if he was cheap.
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Thanks meleeka. I'm going to find an equine law specialist today.
Don't think I will stop until I get some justice.
It's people like this who give the horse world its bad name.
 
ycbm said:
I'd go one further and say that the timing of the lameness suggests that the pony might have been medicated for the vetting. I would check with your vet quickly whether the bloods are still available for testing. Such an upsetting thing for your daughter, and very annoying.
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I'm going to call vets today and ask for bloods to be run. I think I have up to 6 months. The fact he started to go lame within a few weeks due to the work load ( 3 rides per week) would suggest he either had just come back into work when I got him or that they medicated him. So frustrating when they sell pony fit for a competition home.
 
Suspensorys usually don't medicate very well .
But I would defiantly be checking the blood that's was taken at the vetting .if that's clear is down to your insurance .
You then need to claim loss of use it's possible the insurance company may try to wriggle out of it it depends on their attitude .
Your vet will help you with this .
I have been through a loss of use claim with Fatty .
Two vets here made the initial diagnosis and he had three months of treatment when the issue had still not resolved the insurance company referred him on the a vet uni where two specialists worked him up and wrote reports .
LOU was agreed with the owner who took eighty per cent of the insured sum and gave the horse to me .
He was freeze marked with an L in a circle .
 
I didn't ask to see any vets records- and as far as I know nor did the vet I used to carry out the vetting.
I'm going to try and located their vet today and any vet near to them to see if they have ever treated pony. Unsure if they will tell me but worth a go.
 
Thank you. The vets have said if they treated him he wouldn't be fit for purpose after as he couldn't compete due to the nature of the operation they are excluded from competing.
I am going to call my insurance this morning with an update and when I collect pony later from vets she said she will go through verythign with me. Just feel so angry that previous owners knew all along!
 
Horse1979 said:
I didn't ask to see any vets records- and as far as I know nor did the vet I used to carry out the vetting.
I'm going to try and located their vet today and any vet near to them to see if they have ever treated pony. Unsure if they will tell me but worth a go.
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They won't tell you. Your easiest first step is to contact the vet who vetted him, discuss the issue and ask for bloods to be run.
Tbh, if they are clear you will be highly unlikely to have any come back as you cannot prove it was an existing injury
 
Horse1979 said:
I didn't ask to see any vets records- and as far as I know nor did the vet I used to carry out the vetting.
I'm going to try and located their vet today and any vet near to them to see if they have ever treated pony. Unsure if they will tell me but worth a go.
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No they ought not tell you their contract is with the old owner .
How long had he been in his last home .
Did you ask about what vets treatment he had had in his old home and what was said .
Does your vet think he has had a neurectomy ?
 
He was with his previous owner for 6 years. Competed in very high level dressage in Ireland so is well known. I asked about any health issues etc and was told just routine appointments.
My vet hasn't said she think it's been treated- she thinks lightly happened last year and wa stunned away before I brought him.
 
Depending on how good and helpful the vets are they may say they'll contact the previous owner for permission to give you the horses old veterinary records.

A mare I was given last year I wanted her vet records from a previous owner, they kept ignoring me or giving me reasons they couldn't give permission to their vets. One phone call to the vets, vets phoned previous owners asking permission to release records to me and within half an hour of first phone call I had all records needed. Get your vets to check bloods then try the horses old vets.
 
That's good to hear. I will call them this morning.
I'm wondering they if they have used a different vet to treat the injury- away from there regular vet!!! I feel the have gone to great depths of deceit.
 
TBH you are where you are .
The pony is insured and seeing if you can get a LOU claim through and moving on with your life may well be the best way forward .
Many experianced people have the ability to feel a horse is not right chuck it out for a while and then move it on after a rest , there may well be no vets records nothing may have been done .
Suspensorys injuries are funny things and can be diffcult to detect horse can work on with them for years it's possible nothing dishonest has gone on .
 
Did you ask the previous owners about the time off and what did they say about it? Did the horse return to competition successfully afterwards? If he did, I don't think you would have much ground to claim he had been missold. Definitely worth getting the bloods looked at though.
 
I had a similar issue with a previous horse. It passed a 5 stage vetting by a very well known and respected vet and within 6 months it was lame. I believe it had also not been in work because work made the problem come out. I had it investigated and when I was at the vets one of the nurses said innocently "isn't he the one who got hit by a car?".

He'd been hit in the chest - the scars I'd been told were barbed wire cuts. No mention of a car. It turned out he'd escaped his field as a 3 year old. The thing was I noticed symptoms from the moment I bought him as the saddle always went over to one side (muscle wastage always there but not picked up at vetting) I thought it was the saddle. Soon after buying he dragged his feet going down hill. This is when I began to find out about Wobblers. It's likely the impact caused the compression of the spine in his neck.

I thought about trying to take the vets to court because frankly I think the vetting should have picked some of these things up I even said "he stands a bit funny when resting is that indicative of an issue?" Or the seller because they must have known there was a problem.

Anyway I decided proving that he had it before I got him was difficult if not impossible plus I loved him and wanted to try and see if he came right. Luckily I had loss of use and after a year or so of trying various therapies I successfully claimed it. It was a hellish time though.
 
Sussexbythesea said:
I had a similar issue with a previous horse. It passed a 5 stage vetting by a very well known and respected vet and within 6 months it was lame. I believe it had also not been in work because work made the problem come out. I had it investigated and when I was at the vets one of the nurses said innocently "isn't he the one who got hit by a car?".

He'd been hit in the chest - the scars I'd been told were barbed wire cuts. No mention of a car. It turned out he'd escaped his field as a 3 year old. The thing was I noticed symptoms from the moment I bought him as the saddle always went over to one side (muscle wastage always there but not picked up at vetting) I thought it was the saddle. Soon after buying he dragged his feet going down hill. This is when I began to find out about Wobblers. It's likely the impact caused the compression of the spine in his neck.

I thought about trying to take the vets to court because frankly I think the vetting should have picked some of these things up I even said "he stands a bit funny when resting is that indicative of an issue?" Or the seller because they must have known there was a problem.

Anyway I decided proving that he had it before I got him was difficult if not impossible plus I loved him and wanted to try and see if he came right. Luckily I had loss of use and after a year or so of trying various therapies I successfully claimed it. It was a hellish time though.
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Gosh all this sounds dreadful.Just proves that having a vetting is sometimes useless despite best intentions if there has been every intention to hide facts in the first place by the vendor.some people are so dishonest in life.Awful stories on this thread about how people have been deceived it must be totally heartbreaking for those affected, especially when bond with new horse has been made.
 
Goldenstar said:
TBH you are where you are .
The pony is insured and seeing if you can get a LOU claim through and moving on with your life may well be the best way forward .
Many experianced people have the ability to feel a horse is not right chuck it out for a while and then move it on after a rest , there may well be no vets records nothing may have been done .
Suspensorys injuries are funny things and can be diffcult to detect horse can work on with them for years it's possible nothing dishonest has gone on .
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This ^^^ is sound advice. Did you buy the pony from Ireland?
 
Horse1979 said:
He was with his previous owner for 6 years. Competed in very high level dressage in Ireland so is well known. I asked about any health issues etc and was told just routine appointments.
My vet hasn't said she think it's been treated- she thinks lightly happened last year and wa stunned away before I brought him.
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Proving they knew about the suspensory damage and didn't declare it might be difficult. It could be they *didn't* know, just had an episode of lameness, decided to turn away rather than investigate the cause, then sold him on once sound. It could be true the horse only saw the vet for routine appointments. Even though you asked about "health issues" that's a bit foggy because if they believed it to be a one-off episode of lameness that was now resolved, it wouldn't be an ongoing health issue. If you'd asked them "has he ever been lame?" and they'd lied and you could prove it, that would be different.

I'd ask the insurance to fund any treatment and hope they pay out, becauase maybe the current lameness episode doesn't count as a pre-existing condition if he was sound at purchase? You could then sell on as a useful working animal, though not for competition due to the nature of the treatment. If you go for loss of use would the insurance not be more likely to investigate a bit more? Finding out he was unfit for competition ages ago and saying it's a pre-existing condition and refuse to pay out. Not entirely sure how insurance works.

ETA: you mentioned a vetting. If it was 5 stage, don't they have to be galloped about for that? So the horse was fit/in work, or did you gallop an unfit horse? If the horse was fit, in work and sound it's going to be hard proving the previous owners deliberately deceived you. If the horse was galloped around whilst unfit, could that not have been the start of the problem this time around? It's generally accepted that galloping an unfit horse is bad for their legs.
 
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OP I really feel for you and your daughter.

I've just been through similar and it was the most emotionally draining and heartbreaking experience. I bought my dream horse at the start of last summer, she was only 5, newly broken (but turned away that winter) and our plans were to do high level dressage. She cost around about what your pony has and was 5 stage vetted by both myself (own vet used) and the reputable dressage dealer I was buying from...she passed with flying colours both times. Literally a month and 3 days later she came in from the field with an acute tear to her DDFT. Scans showed mineralisation present in both forelegs which would suggest a pre-exisiting condition, but my concern with pursuing it as such was that I ran the risk of acknowledging to the insurers that I felt it could be pre-existing and therefore would lose any option to claim. I also wasn't convinced that the breeder or seller had deceived me, although I did sometimes wonder if there was a reason she'd been turned away that winter. It was one massive grey area, so I followed my heart and did whatever I could to give my mare the best possible chances of recovery. Unfortunately for us it didn't work out, as as soon as the DDFT healed she did her SDFT in the same leg. After a lot of soul searching and a struggle to keep her sound we made the devastating decision to PTS. We didn't have LOU and I refuse to add up exactly how much money I've lost in the 9 months I had her but I know it was a lot. I've just marked it up as incredibly bad luck and consoled myself with the fact I did everything I possibly could to make her better.

In your shoes I'd push to get the bloods tested and go from there. If they show signs of doping I'd do everything I could to make the seller/owner accountable for passing on a horse with a known injury as sound, but if they're clear I think I'd probably just accept the LOU payment as I think you'll struggle to prove anything given he passed a 5 stage vetting.

Best of luck whatever you decide.
 
Might sound silly but do the previous owners have a Facebook page? Or their daughter? When i look for horses i always ask the persons name and look them up on FB. Its amazing how many people don't have their security settings set for friends only and I've found out all sorts of lies about horses I've been planning to go and see and once I've read that i cancel the viewing! It might be they have said something on there about pony being injured or turned away. Worth a look!
 
Horse1979 said:
Thank you. The vets have said if they treated him he wouldn't be fit for purpose after as he couldn't compete due to the nature of the operation they are excluded from competing.
I am going to call my insurance this morning with an update and when I collect pony later from vets she said she will go through verythign with me. Just feel so angry that previous owners knew all along!
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I dont know any society that will stop you competing if your horse has had an operation provided it is healed and the horse is sound.
 
OP last year I went through a very similar situation to you with a new (not cheap either) pony who very quickly went wrong after purchasing even though passing a 5 star vetting. Well done for trusting your gut and getting him to the vets. The vets should store the blood test from the vetting for 6 months get them screened asap.

In regards to old vetinary records I found out that the old owner must give you consent to have access to these records. Most vets will require the old owner to put in writing that you are allowed access to them. So unfortunately you must go back to the old owner to get these.

When we sought legal advice we were told we would have more of a case against the practice who vetted him rather than the old owners. Keep any videos you have of when you went to try the pony as these can be used and examined by your vet to see if they can pick anything up from how the pony is moving/ behaving.

Our pony also competed in high levee dressage from a young age and the vet explained that suspensory damage was very common in dressage horses as their hocks have been under a lot of pressure since a young age. He said he has heard of a few cases where experienced people can see it coming and move the horse on before they are left with an unsellable horse and have vet records for the old owners to come after them with.

There was also a gap in the competition record of our pony which we recently found out was a period when he was sold then sent back for the same issues he presented to us.

I really feel for you and the stress, heartbreak and anger that you'll be feeling. It really does make you wonder about people wanting the best for their pony when you hear of these situations. The saddest part I found was that the poor pony in the middle of it all was not right and in pain yet money came before all that on the old owners agenda. All the best hopefully it will work out for you and you will discover what went on and have a case.
 
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conniegirl said:
I dont know any society that will stop you competing if your horse has had an operation provided it is healed and the horse is sound.
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Our pony would have been unable to compete under be, Bsja and bd rules if he had had the de-Nerving surgery recommended despite if he made full recovery and was able to compete again. I'm sure there are similar cases
 
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