New horse - pacing! ? All tips for canter welcome please!

[PatchyBabyHorse]

I think you are being rather unfair on the seller to say they deliberately masked and hid the canter! It isnt really a fault or unsoundness, he has passed the vet, and surely any seller is going to advertise with the best video they can. He looks nice to me, a bit babyish and any weakness can be worked on.

I’m not saying that they hid or masked the canter - they hid the fact that he paces. Which as you say isn’t an unsoundness, but they deliberately didn’t tell me when they clearly knew.

A crap canter isn’t a problem and it’s up to you to spot. I could see he had a crap canter, I don’t mind that. But pacing is a rather different issue.

As I say, I like the horse and I’ll work through it. But it shouldn’t have been hidden, I do think that was underhand.

 

[PatchyBabyHorse]

A horse cant pace in trot. Trot and Pace are different gaits with a different sequence of footfalls.

Yes, thank you I am aware of this.
What I was saying (I thought quite clearly) was that he doesn’t pace when he’s meant to be trotting. He trots.

I understand that pacing and trotting are different gaits, as obviously that’s kind of the crux of the problem...!

 

[stormox]

Yes, thank you I am aware of this.
What I was saying (I thought quite clearly) was that he doesn’t pace when he’s meant to be trotting. He trots.

I understand that pacing and trotting are different gaits, as obviously that’s kind of the crux of the problem...!

So he can both trot (diagonal pairs) and pace (lateral pairs) - but has difficulty cantering? A horse cannot pace at canter but he could trot behind and canter in front.

 

[paddi22]

I’d love to see a picture of yours, she sounds really nice!
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I'm trying to root out videos of when we would have the weird canter that you currently have. this video is years old and it was when she was only starting to do courses
the first video here she does it at 50sec between the double at the end, she breaks into her weird canter thing at stages around the course, although quality of video is bad so it's probably impossible to see!.

this is her recently. the kid on her had only jumped her once before, so she's not used to her and letting her run a lot, but she's way more together in her canter now. but still lacks the shortening and gears a lot.

 

[PatchyBabyHorse]

Thank you so much paddi, that is so so kind of you to take the time to find those! She’s lovely ?

I saw it between the double on the first video. V similar to mine.
Really heartening you see yours doing so well.

Do you know what breeding she is? And what age did you get her and start jumping?

 

[Blanche]

Many, many, many moons ago I worked with harness racehorses for a season. They were not encouraged to canter as you wouldn’t want them breaking in a race. There were trotters and pacers on the yard and they were all ridden. They were driven for a few months and then backed. Backing took a couple of minutes. You were legged up and jogged round on the lunge and if you could stop off you went to exercise.

When horses had had their last race we would ride round a large field and pop a small log and they often fell into canter which we then encouraged. Some got it quicker than others. Don’t force it as they will just go faster in pace or trot. I think if your horse is a standardbred he is more likely to be a trotter as they go very wide behind. Pacers are much closer behind. There is no reason your horse won’t come right, he needs to mature . They are great horses and I’m surprised more people don’t have them as a happy hacker.

 

[Gloi]

Here is a rather embarrassing video of baby pony (Welsh cob x Icy)on a rather pacey day where he is meant to be doing canter transitions at X. You can see he takes up a pacey canter instead of proper canter and drops into pace and into a 4 beat gait at times. He isn't always so bad(sometimes he's worse) and has improved since then.

 

[paddi22]

he is GORGEOUS Gloi! the little flicky trot on him!!

 

[Gloi]

he is GORGEOUS Gloi! the little flicky trot on him!!

I think so too He hasn't proved the easiest pony to get his gaits clean but he is fun to play about with. He has such a big selection of gaits he throws at me. He can do walk trot canter and pace , then a big selection of other intermediate gaits a running walk, a foxtrot, tolt, and a stepping pace(his favourite), unfortunately he tends to drift from one to another as the incline , bend or surface of the road changes so consistency needs a lot of work! Still, it keeps me occupied and his trot work has really come on this year as he has matured.

 

[ycbm]

I’m not saying that they hid or masked the canter - they hid the fact that he paces. Which as you say isn’t an unsoundness, but they deliberately didn’t tell me when they clearly knew.

A crap canter isn’t a problem and it’s up to you to spot. I could see he had a crap canter, I don’t mind that. But pacing is a rather different issue.

As I say, I like the horse and I’ll work through it. But it shouldn’t have been hidden, I do think that was underhand.

If you feel that way, it really isn't a good idea to buy unseen. A seller can't be expected to list a horse's faults for you if you aren't going to make the journey to view it.

If he has no problem trotting and he doesn't show any signs of pacing at any other time than in canter one way only, I don't see how he can be described as a pacer. To me that's just a green horse, and i would be more worried if a 4 year old wasn't green.

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Can anyone pm me the page with the videos on, I'd like to take a look and see if I would have bought him myself?

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[Elf On A Shelf]

The seller hid NOTHING if you didn't ask about it and if you didn't see the horse in the flesh then you really only have yourself to blame.

 

[paddy555]

I don't see why it was underhand. They put up a video, allowed you to have the horse vetted. If the vet commented it was very strung out it was up to you to question it further. Did you question it with your vet and what did they advise you? Presumably they would have let you view and try the horse if you had wanted to.
It was up to you to check out the merchandise before buying. No reason why they should tell you.

 

[PatchyBabyHorse]

Of course the seller hid it.

Like I say, I’m very philosophical about it and I know that’s the risk you take buying unseen. I’ve bought three youngsters unseen this month already, I’m not unused to the process. And I fully accept that you won’t always get the truth, and don’t spend more than I can afford to lose.

But I just don’t accept that buying unseen makes it ok for the seller to lie or withhold big portions of the truth. I accept that it’s happened and that’s the risk I took, but it doesn’t mean it’s ok for people to behave like that. It’s not.

Like I say though, I’m really happy with everything else and I wouldn’t return him even if I could. I was expecting a very green and unbalanced but nice horse with schooling issues, that’s what I wanted and that’s what I got. But pacing should be declared.

 

[PatchyBabyHorse]

I do also realise though that the popular view on here is that if you buy unseen you are basically a novicey idiot who deserves to be tarred and feathered so I’m not sure why I posted really ?

Oh that’s right.....for some tips for achieving a good canter in pacers. Thank you again, very much to everyone who gave it

 

[stormox]

Of course the seller hid it.

But I just don’t accept that buying unseen makes it ok for the seller to lie or withhold big portions of the truth. I accept that it’s happened and that’s the risk I took, but it doesn’t mean it’s ok for people to behave like that. It’s not.

Like I say though, I’m really happy with everything else and I wouldn’t return him even if I could. I was expecting a very green and unbalanced but nice horse with schooling issues, that’s what I wanted and that’s what I got. But pacing should be declared.

But he doesnt pace does he?? Have you seen him pacing? Not according to your posts, you have seen him do a weird strung out canter, and canter in front trot behind. I cannot see in any of your posts where you have said you saw him pace.

The seller didnt conceal anything IMO

 

[PatchyBabyHorse]

But he doesnt pace does he?? Have you seen him pacing? Not according to your posts, you have seen him do a weird strung out canter, and canter in front trot behind. I cannot see in any of your posts where you have said you saw him pace.

????

Are we on the same thread?
I have sat on him while he paces. My instructor has stood watching him while he paces, whilst saying ‘he’s pacing.’

I have mentioned that he paces several times. Beginning with the thread title.

 

[Gloi]

You can get genetic testing for gaited genes . I got mine tested before I started doing anything with him, I used Etalon but that is 3 years ago so there may be lots more now.

 

[PatchyBabyHorse]

You can get genetic testing for gaited genes . I got mine tested before I started doing anything with him, I used Etalon but that is 3 years ago so there may be lots more now.

Thank you I’ll look into this, I had no idea! I’ll ask the lab I use for colour testing.

Your pony is lovely Gloi

 

[ycbm]

????


I have mentioned that he paces several times. Beginning with the thread title.

You've said he paces behind and canters in front on one rein, which is actually impossible.

I've seen the video now and you are libelling the seller by saying they hid anything.

If you don't realise that the trot and especially the canter in the sales video are both wrong for a 14.2 pony, even a green one, you shouldn't be buying unseen then saying bad things about the seller. I thought you were talking about a stringy long 16 hand standardbred type, not a pony.
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[Gloi]

Thank you I’ll look into this, I had no idea! I’ll ask the lab I use for colour testing.
Your pony is lovely Gloi

The gene you are looking for is DMRT3

 

[ycbm]

I do also realise though that the popular view on here is that if you buy unseen you are basically a novicey idiot who deserves to be tarred and feathered so I’m not sure why I posted really ?

I buy unseen.

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[Gloi]

You've said he paces behind and canters in front on one rein, which is actually impossible.
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It's actually a description of a very common thing in gaited horses. the hind legs are doing a walking type stride and the front moving like a canter stride. They call it valhopp in Iceland. It's a green horse thing usually.

 

[PatchyBabyHorse]

You've said he paces behind and canters in front on one rein, which is actually impossible.

I've seen the video now and you are libelling the seller by saying they hid anything.

If you don't realise that the trot and especially the canter in the sales video are both wrong for a 14.2 pony, even a green one, you shouldn't be buying unseen then saying bad things about the seller.
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We’re each entitled to our opinion, and I have a) not named the seller, and b) asked others to not name the seller if they have the ad as I think it would be unfair, so I think you’ll find I’m libelling no one ?

It’s very interesting how posters on HHO can tell instantly that he paces (having already been told he does) yet simultaneously claim that what I’m describing isn’t pacing anyway so I’m libelling the seller.

I mean....which is it!? ??‍?

 

[PatchyBabyHorse]

It's actually a description of a very common thing in gaited horses. the hind legs are doing a walking type stride and the front moving like a canter stride. They call it valhopp in Iceland. It's a green horse thing usually.

Thank you. Yes I’ve seen videos since you posted that earlier, and it’s very like what he does. It was really helpful to see!

 

[PatchyBabyHorse]

I thought you were talking about a stringy long 16 hand standardbred type, not a pony.
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He’s 15.1

 

[ycbm]

It's actually a description of a very common thing in gaited horses. the hind legs are doing a walking type stride and the front moving like a canter stride. They call it valhopp in Iceland. It's a green horse thing usually.

Yes but it's a green horse thing in non gaited horses too. And, unfortunately, also a sign of hind leg and/or sacroiliac issues.

In a 14.2 pony I'd be calling a vet if there isn't a very rapid improvement as he is trained up.

 

[ycbm]

He’s 15.1

He's described as 148cm. That's 14.2hh

I think he has potential to be lovely, btw.

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[PatchyBabyHorse]

He's described as 148cm. That's 14.2hh

I think he has potential to be lovely, btw.

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Ah but you see, I go by the stick not the estimate. You learn this when you buy unseen.

Thank you. So do I.

 

[PatchyBabyHorse]

Yes but it's a green horse thing in non gaited horses too. And, unfortunately, also a sign of hind leg and/or sacroiliac issues.

In a 14.2 pony I'd be calling a vet if there isn't a very rapid improvement as he is trained up.

He’s not a pony and passed a 5 stage vet with no repeated flexions so hopefully not.
But you never know. Any horse can break.

 

[Gloi]

Little description from an Icy page. One of my Icies like doing this rather too much as they found it easier than a clean 4 beat, would do it for miles out hacking given chance. Slowing down but putting more impulsion in squared it up.

ROLLING or VALHOPP (what? a new gait?)
Some horses shift towards the canter when at the tolt. The horse can
roll to either the right or the left side, the same as it can canter
with a right or left lead. The horse basically steps evenly in the
back, while cantering in the front.
Cantering on the right lead, the left hind foot is followed by the
diagonal pair of the right hind and left front feet. The right front
foot then reaches forward.
Now, when the tolting horse rolls toward the right, the right hind foot
follows the left front foot very closely, with a longer break before
the next foot, the front right. The rhythm would be 1--2/3--4.
As with the pace-tolt and the trot-tolt, the shift can be smooth,
without an obvious change in gait. However, Valhopp is generally
not a desirable. Slowing the horse down when it happens, and
practicing even gaits mostly on a straight line helps.