New mare has gone wild.

I maybe completely wrong but the undertones from you are very negative, even when others have tried to reassure that this poor mare has only been with you a week. Disappointment is understandable but, If you are honest with yourself, are you experienced enough to try and support this mare or send back before you get too attached and possibly cause more issues. No judgement from me whichever way you go.
 
I feel all over the place tbh and just don't know what to do for the best.

My daughter has lost her confidence and this pony was to rebuild her confidence and have fun etc.

If it was my horse for me then I would try and work through. As someone up thread said it's really difficult/different when there is a child involved
 
racmun said:
Something has triggered her behaviour but it's very worrying
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The fear of being alone again has caused the behaviour. She will settle, but it’s not going to happen overnight.
She has no idea, when you bring her in, that she’s going to see her new friends again.
She’s suddenly able to express herself with other horses and do things she hasn’t been able to do for a long time such as mutual grooming and being close to others of her kind and feeling safe.
Then you take her away from her friends and all she can think about is that she’s on her own again and that makes her feel insecure and unsafe and she’s somewhere unfamiliar with these new humans who are asking things of her, and that makes her feel more unsafe and insecure and further confirms to her that she wants to go back to the safety of her new friends. She also senses that these new humans seem stressed and anxious, yet her field mates are calm and settled… where do you think she’d rather be?

Small steps. You’ve changed not only her home but the way she is managed.
 
Nocturnal said:
Try and put yourself in the horse’s shoes. Her whole world’s been upended and now she’s in a new place with strangers. She’s made one friend and is afraid of losing her. Working her until she’s a sweaty mess at this stage isn’t going to build trust or a relationship with her. Make things fun and relaxing for her, not more stressful.
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This!!! Horses are not machines.
 
I didn’t mean long term! I meant to see if that was the problem, right now where a child’s safety is in question.
In which case it at least points in the right direction of solving it.
 
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racmun said:
I feel all over the place tbh and just don't know what to do for the best.

My daughter has lost her confidence and this pony was to rebuild her confidence and have fun etc.

If it was my horse for me then I would try and work through. As someone up thread said it's really difficult/different when there is a child involved
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I get that and that’s why I suggested going exactly back to how the previous owner kept her. Regardless of how we all feel about horses being alone (I’m totally against it) but, I feel it gives a starting point as to wether this is separation anxiety that may or may not be dealt with or if you have bought the wrong horse.

Your child has to come first, pony second.
Separation anxiety can often be managed. It’s just useful to know if that’s what you’re dealing with or if you have been mis sold a pony, which sadly happens.
 
poiuytrewq said:
I didn’t mean long term! I meant to see if that was the problem, right now where a child’s safety is in question.
In which case it at least points in the right direction of solving it.
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But separating her again is likely to make the problem worse, she will never learn to trust her new owner if she never knows when she might be stuck on her own again. That won't do the child's confidence any good.
 
Seriously, OP, give her a wee bit of time. And understanding. I also second Bobnotacob's suggestion of Oestress. It didn't do sh*t for my old mare, but it does wonders for my young mare. You know yourself that every women experiences periods differently. Same is true for for mares. They all experience seasons differently, and as you get to know your mare, you'll learn the best way to help her through it. And I think some of that is on us too because of how we keep mares. In the wild, she'd go through an incredibly strong heat right after having a foal (and believe me, a foal heat is....interesting), and would most likely be in foal the next year. When in foal, she is not coming into season. We f*ck with this system by never putting most of our riding mares in foal, so they come into heat again and again and again, which is actually sort of unnatural. Some mares are fine without any help, but some (many) benefit from some kind of supplement - over-the-counter stuff like Agnus Castus if you're lucky; prescription stuff like Regumate if you're not.

Yours has also gone from individual turnout to having friends. Like I said in my first post on your thread and other people have reiterated, this f^&*^cks with their heads. She's probably loving being with conspecifics and gets super anxious when you take her away, because in her mind, she might not see them again. If she has spent 3-4 years on individual turnout, this is a valid concern.

Instead of lunging the daylights out of her, just take her away from her friends for a bit, brush her, feed her, give her a nice time, then put her back. Once she settles in the routine, she should hopefully revert into the horse you think you bought.

I guess with a kid who wants to get out and do stuff, that's harder, but a very, very long time ago, I was that kid, and the horse we bought - my first horse - had lots of funky issues. My parents weren't (hahah...and aren't) horsey, didn't have a clue, but at the same time, they didn't see the horse as a thing we could just send back. We..well...I had no choice but to learn. And that education on how to deal with tough horses as a horsewoman, with care and empathy and learning how horses think, made me into a far better horse person than a straightforward pony would have ever done. They are sentient, intelligent creatures, so, so sensitive to their environment, and if your kid gets their head around that, even at a young age, they will become an amazing horse person.
 
I seriously have no issues taking it slowly and my daughter is a very gentle and understanding child.

I'm just worried it's deep rooted problem that we won't be able to manage

She's on part livery as I'm at work during the day. By the time get here after school/work they have been bought in so I can't really turn her back out with her friends. They're all in as well.

Yesterday we couldn't brush her at all. She was wild and we put her back in her stable before on one of us got hurt.
 
racmun said:
I seriously have no issues taking it slowly and my daughter is a very gentle and understanding child.

I'm just worried it's deep rooted problem that we won't be able to manage

She's on part livery as I'm at work during the day. By the time get here after school/work they have been bought in so I can't really turn her back out with her friends. They're all in as well.

Yesterday we couldn't brush her at all. She was wild and we put her back in her stable before on one of us got hurt.
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Then you need to get the bloods that I assume you had taken at the vetting, tested. Because if it isn't separation anxiety causing the behaviour, she must have been sedated when you tried her. Unless someone is feeding her something she has never had before.
 
I lunged her to see if:-

A) she reacted whilst in the arena away from and out of sight of her friends.she called once but was actually very good.

B) to get rid of any pent up energy (I didn't think she had any) but just to rule it out

C) her old owner suggested that I try it.

She suggested on Friday that we lunge before hacking - far from ideal. She alo sad she will calm down in the warm weather

Her behaviour was defo better than yesterday but once on the yard but she did start calling/ acting distressed. .
 
You really need to give the poor horse a chance to settle down. It used to be the norm to give a horse at least a week just to let down and be a horse then take it very slowly.

Tarr Steps Services on Facebook is a good resource to learn how to be more horse friendly and consider things from the horses point of view.

If you scroll down the Tarrsteps page you will find a repost of a very relevant post "New Horse Syndrome" by Dr Shelley Appleton Calm Willing Confident Horses. Dr Appleton made the post 10 July 2024 to help with the search.

This sort of behaviour now that the horse has access to a "freedom" with herd turnout further proves how cruel individual turnout is, and that seeing horses over the fences or through stable bars is not good enough.
 
We're all focusing on the pony - as we should - but I can see it from the OP's point of view too - she's done everything right from the point of view of assessing the pony prior to purchase by the sounds of it, and still has ended up with a less than perfect situation currently.

I think the biggest difficulty from your posts, OP, is that you don't want to give the situation too long and then lose the opportunity to return the pony as unsuitable. And much as we don't like it, that is a very practical aspect of the situation.

I think it might help if you agree a timescale with the previous owner - to give the pony chance to settle and then discuss how things are at the end of that period. I think anything less than a month to give the pony chance to start to settle would be too short a time, but that would be for you and the previous owner to discuss.

By the sounds of things you do have grounds to ask to return the pony, but given that she seemed so perfect before she moved, that there are significant reasons for why she is like this at the moment, and that it is highly likely she will start to settle with time and appropriate support, it would be a shame to make that decision at this point in time.
 
Thanks purplespots you've explained my dilemma perfectly.

I've paid £8k for.a 'one in a million family pony' and whist I appreciate its not a lot to some people it is a lot of money to me and I can't afford to make an £8k mistake.

I just so confused. My really good friend also scrolled back searching the pony's history and she seemed exactly what I was looking for.

I can't quite believe what is happening. I completely understand that horse needs to settle by this feels like something more extreme and if it's separation anxiety from being individually turned out I'm not sure i be able to manage/resolve
 
What do the people on your yard think as they are watching this first hand?

My lovely horse went on loan to a friend when I was pregnant. He was the most loveliest horse you could imagen. My friend rode him many times at the yard and took him on pleasure rides etc. She knew him inside out. She took him on loan to be closer to her.

When he got to her yard he was stressed very stressed. He was not happy. She couldn't ride him, he span in the road and was down right dangerous. She had him for about 3 weeks and things were getting worse.

He came back to our yard and as soon as his hooves hit the ground he was back to his normal self. I was lucky that I could take him back as my stable had not been taken.

If I had sold him I would have been accused of mis-selling and doping. It happens and sometimes is unmanageable and very stressful for all involved.

Personally I would liase with the previous owner, see what can be done to change the situation. It's an environmental issue and the pervious owner won't want this to carry on if they are to resell her. Obviously they aren't obliged to take her back but if the pony is much loved they might consider it.
 
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racmun said:
Thanks purplespots you've explained my dilemma perfectly.

I've paid £8k for.a 'one in a million family pony' and whist I appreciate its not a lot to some people it is a lot of money to me and I can't afford to make an £8k mistake.

I just so confused. My really good friend also scrolled back searching the pony's history and she seemed exactly what I was looking for.

I can't quite believe what is happening. I completely understand that horse needs to settle by this feels like something more extreme and if it's separation anxiety from being individually turned out I'm not sure i be able to manage/resolve
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I completely understand your concerns, but separation anxiety can cause extreme behavior in even the most chilled horse. My friends cob is a proper dope on a rope type but he went wild to the point he was trying to come over the stable door. Friend had had him for 8 years, 7 of those kept in individual turnout, and she had never seen him like that before.
This pony probably was/is the one-in-a-million family pony but you’ve flipped her whole way of life upside down and her natural behaviours have kicked in (friends-safe, alone-unsafe)

I know it’s difficult to see it at the moment, but she will settle. She’s not going to keep up that level of adrenaline and anxiety once she realises this is her new normal and she will be reunited with her friends every day.

Whether you are willing to sit it out and wait when there’s a child involved is your call, but it’s a good lesson in the fact that you haven’t bought a machine, you’ve bought a prey animal with all the complexities that come innately built in with it.
 
So…

The cause of all this is a pony who is struggling on change of home/people and change of management.

I’ve sold one who couldn’t cope with the environment at her new home - I took her back within a week and she found a new home she liked with ease and was there the pony we knew - sweet and soft and ever so safe. I have also taken on ponies who ended up in the wrong home and who arrived in a real state with a very bad ‘report’.

So my advice, from experience, is that yes she would settle fine - but will she settle WITH YOU? That is the question. From what you are writing here, I would worry that you are too inexperienced a family to give her the confidence she needs to help her settle. You went looking for sweet and easy and she is not that right now. She needs humans who can give her confidence while she is managing this reintegration into pony society - and you are scared of her rather than being able to settle her fears. Either she needs to go back if her old owner will take her, or have a professional work with her until she settles.

In March, we bought a pony who had reacted much like it sounds yours is on change of home - only slightly worse because she had a difficult past and can become aggressive. Again, they tried a sweet, easy pony and that was not what she became on arrival. They were lovely people with many years of horse keeping experience who assumed she had hurt herself and did all the investigations etc before eventually, months later, admitting defeat and looking for a new home. That pony stopped biting within days of arrival here, became easy enough for my 12 year old to handle on the ground independently in a month and is all soft and soppy and following him around now two months later. All ours wanted was people who would make her feel safe and to be back on a small private yard where life was quiet and safe and predictable.

I would talk to the old owner. It sounds like this pony was much loved - are they in a position to take her back and look for a new home again?

If not, I would look for someone to help you - not just a standard BHS stage 3 instructor but someone who is recommended for helping with behaviour.
 
When I got mine she was like this. She’d been on 24/7 stabling over the winter before I got her, and had to have 2 weeks quarantine before she went in with the herd - when she did, she had a monster season and was wild every time I took her away from them. She did settle down after 2-3 months, and over the winter we stabled two of them overnight in pens in the barn next to each other where they could groom over the gate, which meant when I brought her in alone she really knew the space and felt comfortable in it thanks to having been comfortable next to her pal.

Now, a year later, she’s a different horse and is great. She’s always spooky and a bit insecure to hack alone, and if I leave her tied up on her own and go away from view she does start calling for me after a few minutes - but even that has improved massively. She’s clearly an insecure horse, but it has come on leaps and bounds and everyone from vet to farrier to yard owner has commented on the change in her over time.

I had plenty of doubts when it was bad, but I’m so glad I persevered. But I did so by making sure when she came in alone she had nice experiences like being groomed and fed treats, and we did clicker training to get her attention and use her food motivation for that.
 
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racmun said:
I my think my big worry is that I I feel like I need to return her and claim she was misrepresented then I need to do sooner rather than later and not be seen to accept any of her behaviour.

I've messaged the old Owner and she said it's just her hormones and back in the herd and she will settle etc.
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I can;'t see she has been misrepresented. You bought a mare, these sort of problems can happen. You bought a mare living alone, changes to herd/alone are not the old owners fault. A new mare needing a long time to settle are not the old owners fault. When you buy a horse and change it's lifestyle anything can happen and the old owner cannot be responsible for it.

I would see if the old owner will take her back and just accept you will lose money. If not I would get someone in to help you who has experience with mares/ new horses settling in/horse management and see if they can help with living and handling.

I'm afraid you bought a living animal who is clearly very unhappy. She is not a machine who will behave on command. Up to you to try to accommodate her problems which will certainly include a lot of time, maybe several months.
 
I find this odd
You mentioned people had her on loan before? And presumably she’s had previous owners but no one has ever experienced her having separation anxiety till now?
I would think if she was the type to get separation anxiety it would’ve happened with someone else before especially if she’s been in herd turnout before
This horse wasn’t completely isolated she was on individual turnout with horses around her

Honestly I’d return her
There’s 110 reasons she could be acting the way she is and if you need a confidence building fun horse for your kid this horse isn’t going to suit for a couple of months and if she’s acting out to a point you can’t brush her your kid may be scared of her by then
 
I keep my ginger mare on individual turnout, albeit next to others, for exactly this reason. She’s very fruity and sprays all the time. And is funny enough more attracted to the mares than geldings. She too is quite stallion like. If we meet my friend on a ride who has a mare , she will make stallion noises and I’m sure would hop on board if she could. I can imagine she would be awful if she became attached to another. As others have said , it’s probably a combination of change of yard. Owger. Routine. And she’s using the other horse as her security blanket
 
its going to take weeks or months to settle.

and that is normal.

i dont *do* mares but have stallions-so have the same issue of hormones merging with anxiety.

when i got my current youngster he hadn't been turned out much (big stud, lots of mares and foals, multiple stallions etc so limited opportunities) and was used to a very settled environment within his barn....going one way out the barn to cover and one way to the walker.

at mine they go out all day and there is zero routine i might bring one in to ride and leave one out, or turn one out and take one off for a hack etc.....all VERY different.

for the first 12 weeks we were very aware of this, only sperating him from his new best mate for a few minutes, not leaving him in the field alone etc.

as his confidence has grown, and we have very gradually increased the periods of separation he has turned in to the MOST chilled out boy, happy to go anywhere alone or be left anywhere alone etc.

she needs more time IMO
 
I don’t think she was misrepresented I just think sadly for the seller and the mare she’s been sold to someone who, in all honesty, doesn’t have the experience or the learning skills to give her a chance.
If you send her back (which sounds best for her) please be honest with the seller, they haven’t lied you are just expecting too much.
 
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