AmyMay
Situation normal
What was the name of the dealer - message me if you prefer.
New pony won't allow me to get on. Very sensitive
- Thread starter Leahwood
- Start date
JFTDWS
Well-Known Member
Most folk use "horsemanship". The question is what kind of horsemanship they're into... American, Australian, "natural", Parelli, Monty Roberts et al - heck even the BHS call their exams "horsemanship" these days. There's also such a thing as bad horsemanship too - and yes, one of the many things in that umbrella would be beating a scared horse, or any horse, for that matter.
9tails
Well-Known Member
Maybe she's anticipating constant kicking. Just a thought.
fredflop
Well-Known Member
Agree with posts above. Is she insured or not? Personally I’d go to the vet with a figure in mind that your happy to spend if insurance don’t pay out.
from the description I’d suspect as a basic check X-rays for kissing spines and scope for ulcers. Possibly get them to look at the teeth too whilst she’s under sedation.
from the description I’d suspect as a basic check X-rays for kissing spines and scope for ulcers. Possibly get them to look at the teeth too whilst she’s under sedation.
[59668]
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Maybe also get some lessons. You keep saying about kicking her. Poor thing I'd bronc too.
angrybird1
Well-Known Member
Quite, poor pony. How experienced are you? If yoy kept kicking me I wouldnt be happy eirher.
Ownedby4horses
...
OP, dont take it personally as we are all so keen to help you. When you describe that you kick her "after the initial kick shes ok" " you can kick her as much as you like and she just plods along". Are you actually kicking her, as opposed to squeezing her?
Riding schools teach kicking and having been to watch someone's granddaughter ride at quite a nice school recently, I was very shocked to see that they still taught their riders to kick, kick, kick, including a proper pony club kick if they couldnt get what they were asking. I felt upset for the ponies.
Its a learning experience for everyone and unless youre taught to squeeze then it doesnt always change.
As an example, my mare was originally quite nappy as she lacked confidence, I always ask with a squeeze but I did just once do a small kick as I needed to move her off the road as there was a car tootling along slowly towards us and she launched into a full on bronking session.
As others have said, could it be that when you're mounting she then expects a kick to ask her to move and shes telling you NO, i dont like that.
If you are kicking her, think about the fact that a horse can feel a fly land on its skin, so your horse can feel the tiniest of squeezes from you.
I'm not advocating anyone riding her currently, I still think a full vet workup, get your saddle checked, check bridle fit, check bit. Think about going from nose to tail basically with all your checks. Then you find out if its physical or behavioural.
Please keep us updated, we would all I am sure wish to help and see you enjoying your horse.
Riding schools teach kicking and having been to watch someone's granddaughter ride at quite a nice school recently, I was very shocked to see that they still taught their riders to kick, kick, kick, including a proper pony club kick if they couldnt get what they were asking. I felt upset for the ponies.
Its a learning experience for everyone and unless youre taught to squeeze then it doesnt always change.
As an example, my mare was originally quite nappy as she lacked confidence, I always ask with a squeeze but I did just once do a small kick as I needed to move her off the road as there was a car tootling along slowly towards us and she launched into a full on bronking session.
As others have said, could it be that when you're mounting she then expects a kick to ask her to move and shes telling you NO, i dont like that.
If you are kicking her, think about the fact that a horse can feel a fly land on its skin, so your horse can feel the tiniest of squeezes from you.
I'm not advocating anyone riding her currently, I still think a full vet workup, get your saddle checked, check bridle fit, check bit. Think about going from nose to tail basically with all your checks. Then you find out if its physical or behavioural.
Please keep us updated, we would all I am sure wish to help and see you enjoying your horse.
Leahwood
Active Member
I am quite experienced rider. Have been ridding for over ten years and ride for a international showjumper. When I say kick , I dont mean great big Pony club kicks , I just mean a gental nudge on the side.
The problem isn't kicking her throughout the ride it is the first time you kick her when you get on , or if you leg just touch her. I did ask her to walk on verbally but eventually you do need to let your legs rest on her side.
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Leahwood
Active Member
Getting some lessons won't help as there is something wrong with her, no instructors knows what is wrong or how to help as she is dangerous . I just put the question out to see if anyone has experienced this before so I can have an idea before I take her to the vets or if the vets don't find anything
Leahwood
Active Member
Yes i do mean squeezing not pony club kicking. It doesn't even need to be any form of way to get her to walk on, it can literally just be your legs (foot) touching the side of her. After the initial reaction of you leg the first time she is completely fine. Not sensitive at all
ihatework
Well-Known Member
An unseen horse, purchased from a field that can only be lunged and by a dealer? Naive purchase in the extreme and only to be done by someone with the skill set to sort out a real problem and happy to take the gamble and shoot if it doesn’t work out.
Im sorry to be blunt, but how much financially are you willing to invest in this. It’s either going to be expensive with the vets, expensive with professional retraining or very expensive with both. Think thousands. With no guarantee of a rideable horse at the end.
Are you up for that?
Im sorry to be blunt, but how much financially are you willing to invest in this. It’s either going to be expensive with the vets, expensive with professional retraining or very expensive with both. Think thousands. With no guarantee of a rideable horse at the end.
Are you up for that?
angrybird1
Well-Known Member
She needs a full vet check I would say.
Ownedby4horses
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Ahh ok, that is helpful to know. It definitely is saying pain to me, I am very interested in what the vets find. As more info is coming, it really does sound as though the corcumstances of her sale and purchase are far from ideal, it is sounding as though something was masked by the dealer.
I really do hope you can get ot the bottom of what is going on with her from the vet, it isnt sounding just behavioural to me, i would definitely be thinking there is something underlying. The sensitivity to her sides etc makes me think Ulcers as well (as other things).
When you say you have found a trainer, would you mind PM-ing me. I dont claim to know a huge amount of trainers but I can tell you of a few that i wouldnt entrust a horse of mine to under any circumstances. I'm not sure whereabouts you are, perhaps PM me a rough area as I do know a few trainers I could recommend as I have used them myself.
Pearlsasinger
Up in the clouds
You can tell a horse off without hitting it!
I just wondered what you thought'horsemanship' was. I am guessing that you are talking about Natural Horsemanship.
Pearlsasinger
Up in the clouds
Leahwood
Active Member
Yes that is exactly what I mean. Yes of course there are other ways to tell a horse off . I was just getting the point across I won't be sending her off somewhere , where she will be miss treated. We have someone who will be able to take the time with her and retrain.
I put this post up to see if anyone else had experienced this . Yes of course I will have the vet look at her and get a professional horse trainer to help us. Just wanted to see if anyone else had experienced a horse being incredibly sensitive around their sides on and off the horse
Leahwood
Active Member
Thank you to everyone's replys , I guess no one had experienced a horse being incredibly sensitive on their side to touch . This is present on and off the horse. So if you are just grooming her it is the same. I will of course get the vet to look at her and get a professional trainer to help. I guess this is not something anyone else has experienced
OrangeAndLemon
Afraid of exorcism
Sorry, tiny bit of thread hijacking...
...if you aren't able to mount during a 5 stage vetting, wouldn't that be a fail? I know it's not as simple as 'pass' and 'fail' but wouldn't the vet have documented concerns?
I'm a little concerned that your saddler thought the saddle was ok with the behaviour as described. I know I'm very lucky and have a very good saddler, but there's no way she would have checked the saddle fit, witnessed an unhappy horse and then said I was good to go. Is your saddler in the SMS?
As others have said, I'd be concerned about insurance exclusions but a full vet work up is required.
...if you aren't able to mount during a 5 stage vetting, wouldn't that be a fail? I know it's not as simple as 'pass' and 'fail' but wouldn't the vet have documented concerns?
I'm a little concerned that your saddler thought the saddle was ok with the behaviour as described. I know I'm very lucky and have a very good saddler, but there's no way she would have checked the saddle fit, witnessed an unhappy horse and then said I was good to go. Is your saddler in the SMS?
As others have said, I'd be concerned about insurance exclusions but a full vet work up is required.
Meowy Catkin
Meow!
I have. Yearling gelding was pratting about in the field, tried to corner too fast and ended up falling on his side. Was super sensitive for about two weeks after. No ribs broken but vet thought badly bruised.
For something that is going on and on, I would definitely get a vet to look (preferably a proper workup at a veterinary hospital) especially as the horse in this case has so many issues.
be positive
Well-Known Member
If there is no one to ride lunging can be done but as the OP never even viewed it was easy for the dealer to make an excuse, if they were known to the vet then it could well be that the vetting was cursory anyway.
I have had a few very sensitive ones in over the years, some pretty much as you describe OP but most had a reason, either physical or mental, a few had just been badly started but they are not for a novice to sort out, if really deep rooted may never be straightforward even if the cause can be found and treated, are frequently money pits, the main issue is finding the cause in the first place then deciding whether it can be fixed, how to tackle it and whether funds will allow it, there is no single or simple answer.
TPO
🤠🏴
I bought a horse (that I did see and try prior to vetting) that was a 16hr+ round trip away. She was only lunged for the vetting, I can't remember the reason why now it was either ground or lack of rider related, so it does happen.
The vet phoned me after to talk the vetting through as she said that she would have failed the horse if I'd wanted it for high level eventing (slight breathing issue that wouldn't impact my lowly aspirations) and on her behaviour as she was very sharp and reactive. I assured the vet that I had met the horse and knew what her temperament was like etc and I was very happy to take her on, therefore TPO passed the vetting.
I got another horse vetted that was a 10hr round trip away from me after I had viewed and tried him. The local vet stopped the vetting when they noticed a slight lameness and called me to advise they stopped at the 2 stage point and would only bill me for that. He talked through his findings in detail.
I'm surprised that the vet in question here had zero feedback given this is a horse "from the field". I would have thought there would have been *something* worth discussing after the vetting.
OP it does sound like you are slightly out of your depth. At the end of the day there have been issues for 5mths + that havent been fully addressed. Vet is the first step
The vet phoned me after to talk the vetting through as she said that she would have failed the horse if I'd wanted it for high level eventing (slight breathing issue that wouldn't impact my lowly aspirations) and on her behaviour as she was very sharp and reactive. I assured the vet that I had met the horse and knew what her temperament was like etc and I was very happy to take her on, therefore TPO passed the vetting.
I got another horse vetted that was a 10hr round trip away from me after I had viewed and tried him. The local vet stopped the vetting when they noticed a slight lameness and called me to advise they stopped at the 2 stage point and would only bill me for that. He talked through his findings in detail.
I'm surprised that the vet in question here had zero feedback given this is a horse "from the field". I would have thought there would have been *something* worth discussing after the vetting.
OP it does sound like you are slightly out of your depth. At the end of the day there have been issues for 5mths + that havent been fully addressed. Vet is the first step
Leahwood
Active Member
When we first got her we thought she was either cold back or badly broken. We took the time over the months and she did improve to the point I was able to get on by myself however you did have to tap her sides to try to desensitize them before getting on. But a month ago she started to get worse and now unfortunately I am not able to get on her at all. We haven't been able to take her to the vet as our car is currently not working. We thought we would give her some time off and try again but nothing has improved. She will be going to the vets next week as our car is now fixed
Leahwood
Active Member
The only thing the vet said was that she had a dished front foot and was a bit spooky. Apart from that she was brilliant. We explained what out plans were with her and he said she would be a great pony for us
Leahwood
Active Member
With the coronavirus our vets have been shut anyway, only open for emergencies. So I won't of been able to take her there any sooner as this is not a emergency case.
Clodagh
Well-Known Member
I hope you can find out what the problem is. My wild guess is kissing spines and ulcers.
I do hope it can all come right, she sounds like a sweet pony that just can’t find any other way to tell people things hurt.
Can you please let us know how you get on at the vets?
Tbh I wouldn’t waste any energy chasing the dealer, sadly buying unseen is a gamble.
I do hope it can all come right, she sounds like a sweet pony that just can’t find any other way to tell people things hurt.
Can you please let us know how you get on at the vets?
Tbh I wouldn’t waste any energy chasing the dealer, sadly buying unseen is a gamble.
Dyllymoo
Well-Known Member
I would say Kissing Spines. A horse nearby was sent to be "rebacked" 3 times by a natural horsemanship type person (well known) after being explosive when mounted. The procedure for getting on said horse involved lunging, and then leaning over tapping his sides like he was being freshly broken, but this was done basically every time he was ridden. It could take 5 minutes or could take 20 minutes.
Turns out he had kissing spine and had had the operation and is being rehabbed.
Its often something physical, especially if it has been going on for so long. The story from the dealer doesn't add up either but that's by the by now.
Lets hope your vet can give you some answers ASAP as the horse sounds like she is in a lot of pain and only 6 years old has been quite stoic.
Turns out he had kissing spine and had had the operation and is being rehabbed.
Its often something physical, especially if it has been going on for so long. The story from the dealer doesn't add up either but that's by the by now.
Lets hope your vet can give you some answers ASAP as the horse sounds like she is in a lot of pain and only 6 years old has been quite stoic.
JFTDWS
Well-Known Member
There are so many things this could be - we've had the popular ones, but also fractured withers, ribs or other major trauma - it's hardly worth speculating. This is quite literally what veterinary diagnostics are for.
Plenty of people on here will have had, or worked with, similarly unfortunate horses, but they can't magically impart any wisdom to help the OP, beyond advising them to seek professional help.
If, and personally I doubt it, but if the horse scans clear for all pathologies using all the relevant diagnostics, then there might be some value in speculating about how to help this horse.
Plenty of people on here will have had, or worked with, similarly unfortunate horses, but they can't magically impart any wisdom to help the OP, beyond advising them to seek professional help.
If, and personally I doubt it, but if the horse scans clear for all pathologies using all the relevant diagnostics, then there might be some value in speculating about how to help this horse.
9tails
Well-Known Member
If you read a few of the answers, ulcers have been mentioned. This could give you the symptoms. Kissing spine has been mentioned, again this could be a cause of the symptoms. She could have bruising, or even a broken rib, who knows? Whichever way, the horse needs vet intervention.
9tails
Well-Known Member
By the way, we all use "horsemanship" with our training. We're dealing with horses, so that's horsemanship. It varies wildly whether someone is good or not though.
Pippity
Well-Known Member
"Coldbacked" is a symptom, not a diagnosis.