Brightbay
Well-Known Member
Can we send GG and milliepops to France to ride Armas and have some videos of it?
Yes, definitely this
In fact, I just want _GG_ to come and ride MY horse
New trainer in action 10
- Thread starter Armas
- Start date
Yes, definitely this
In fact, I just want _GG_ to come and ride MY horse
DabDab
Thinks the luddites had a point...
Can we send GG and milliepops to France to ride Armas and have some videos of it?
What and have the videos posted on here? They'd have to be mad on the scale of waking up in the morning and jumping off the roof because they thought they could fly! Someone on one of the other threads suggested Cortez should go over to train Armas - maybe there could be an HHO collective training trip
It is nice to have a little love in on this thread, but can I just say that it has been partly because various posters have asked such pertinent questions throughout these threads that we've had such interesting discussions (and a lot of those questions have come from posters who profess to be novices).
milliepops
Wears headscarf aggressively
If parties are interested I will post the LR session alternatively it will be on Armas FB page. However I will post all the ridden sessions unless the grief becomes too much
I think all these post have been extremely interesting. Milliepops & GG when are you coming to visit
We are interested, please carry on here
erm... would have to stow away in GG's suitcase, don't have a valid passport atm
^^absolutely this. One thing I've found most interesting is how we all have slightly different understandings of the same terms, probably largely because of all of our different backgrounds and experiences. Fascinating.
FfionWinnie
Well-Known Member
That is a really nice thing to say and far nicer than some of the downright condescending things posted (naming no names) because folk have dared to ask questions. Anything I've asked is because I am now genuinely interested, not because I want to see him ridden in a head collar with a carrot stick or whatever.
Caol Ila
Well-Known Member
If GG is ever passing through Central Scotland, she is certainly welcome to have a go on my horse. Probably not as gorgeous as Armas, but she does the job.
Probably not as gorgeous as Armas, but she does the job. jellybeanz
Well-Known Member
It's not novicey...it is a very intelligent observation. You only have to read through my posts on each video to see how my own views are constantly changing on this rider. Yes, I have an overall view of her, but have made many comments in her favour and many against it.
In all honesty, I believe that this rider is very talented, but have an inckling that perhaps she is not quite completely settled and secure in her own training methods. I think it is a very good thing to try different things when riding new horses and getting to know them. I infact encourage that as believe that you can't ride all horses the same. Different horses respond to different things, so it is good to change things up and experiment and try to figure out the best way forward.
On the flip side, I feel that there are times that this rider is not listening well enough to what the horse is saying to her. This has meant many moments if opportunity to reward good effort from the horse have been lost. Many moments of opportunity to encourage more from the horse have been lost. It also means that there have been many occasions in which the horse has become tense and the tension has been countered with asking for more, as opposed to diffusing it and moving on.
There are moments of understanding between the pair, but they are not often enough for my liking.
I watch some videos thinking, enough now...he's better off with no trainer than with her, but there are videos that show signs of major improvement in some of the work that leave me feeling that Armas is justified in giving her the opportunity to improve. i would put a time limit on this, maybe 3-4 weeks tops as any longer and the training could have longer lasting effects.
I will go out on a limb here though and say what I feel deep down in my gut about this trainer.
I feel that if this beautiful horse was left with her and was trained without the presence of James and all of his questioning, that we would see a very different rider. I feel that if training alone, she would be much much more forceful with the horse and potentially ruin him. I say this because she has made changes along the way, but I wonder how many of those changes have been through introspection and how many have come about through James questioning and desire to see his horse ridden less forcefully.
So...she has her good points, she has her bad points.
Would I ride the horse the same way? No. I would actually approach this whole thing from a totally different angle. I would ask far fewer questions, but with that, I would expect better answers. So...less quantity, more quality.
I would feel how the horse felt. I wouldn't automatically do collected/lateral work. Iwould feel for how the horse moved underneath me going forward in a relaxed manner in a number of different frames and let the horse tell me where he is most comfortable. I would then introduce some other work within this frame and see how the horse felt about it. If, for instance I found the most relaxed frame and asked for a little lateral work whilst in that relaxed frame...i would listen and feel for what the horse was telling me. Is he happy to move laterally? Is there tension? Is there tension on one rein and not the other? Does he feel sticky in any part of the motion of the movement? Does he feel sticky on one side and not the other?
Other general questions I would be listening for the answers to would be
Is he happy with the bit?
Can he move his shoulders freely under this saddle?
Does he respond to seat and weight aids?
Does he respond better to the aids on one rein that the other?
Is he more forward on one rein that the other?
Does he bend and flex better in one direction than the other?
What gait is most naturally relaxed in?
What tempo is most naturally relaxed in?
How does he respond to changes of tempo within the gait?
Can he respond to my core aids?
Questions like these above are basic things that I always ask myself when I ride any horse. Whether it is one if my own that I ride all the time or a new horse that I have never sat on before.
You can't just get on a horse and work it IMO. Think of yourself...some mornings you wake up with a crick in your neck or a stiff shoulder. You make allowances for that as you can feel it. If you don't allow yourself time to feel how your horse is, you risk working it through it's problem areas, not giving allowances and therefore, potentially making things worse.
If for instance I found that my horse was unable to bend around my inside leg on the left rein, I wouldn't assume he was stiff on the left side...I would feel and ask, is he actually just tight on the right side. i would change the rein. If the horse was able to bend easily around my inside leg on the right rein, then I would know that there was some stiffness along the right hand side of the horse. So...I could tailor my warm up around relaxing, stretching and easing up the right hand side of the horse until he was able to bend more consistently between the reins.
Better to do this and then start work on a supple horse, than assume it was unwilling on the part of the horse and just push him through the work.
Armas is a beautiful horse, but not without his issues. Do I think these issues can be overcome by this trainer? Potentially yes, but I feel she may create as many issues as she resolves and it will take a very long time.
Do I think that this horse can overcome these issues quickly? Yes. With the right approach, there is no reason that this horse can't learn a new way of going very quickly. He is an intelligent beast...I would credit him with the ability to absorb things like a sponge if given the chance and learn to accept the bit very quickly. It can and will only happen quickly with the right rider though. To be honest, I don't feel either this or the male trainer that was the other choice would be able to achieve that with him.
It is so hard to explain but so easy to show. I wish I lived in France...I'd never charge someone if the opportunity to ride such a stunning horse was on offer.
Maybe that's why I never went into it as a business though...too much of a soft touch and always end up doing it for free, lol.
I don't hate this trainer at all....but I really would like to see her try to understand this horse a bit more, listen to him a bit more and not be quite so demanding at this stage.
Hope that's the kind of response you were looking for
Thanks for the long post GG I really appreciate that! I know I don't have the experience really to comment on videos such as this but has been really interesting to learn more about this way of training to be honest!
misterjinglejay
Well-Known Member
I've watched all the videos and the ones on FB, and read everyone's comments. I have nothing to add, but would like to thank all the knowledgeable posters, especially GG and Millipops - you have spent so much time and effort explaining things to the rest of us. Thank you!