Newbie Question regarding ulcer symptoms

[Needtoretire]

Hi, new member but have lurked for a few years.

Can I ask if anyone uses Equinectar syrup for horses showing ulcer symptoms please. Scoped clear after grade /2 last March and has been fine for a good while. But now showing real grumps at the tack and rugs, bites and means it. Ridden work is absolutely fine, no resistance and happy forward going. Horse has been with me for a long time and always had a bit of character and an opinion on everything but very genuine.

Fed as an ulcer horse, long fibre 24/7, hacked daily, slim and reasonably fit teenager. Limited turn out at present due to land conditions, but kept in loose yard/barn. Done a gastro guard course and no change in attitude and not wanting to rescope at present as thinking more hind gut discomfort. Spoken to Equinectar who were helpful. There are lots of reviews online but can't seem to find anything on HH forum other than information on Ponease which is something I've never heard of.
Thanks for any thoughts good or bad.

 

[Barton Bounty]

I haven’t heard of it for hindgut I used aloe vera juice

 

[Tiddlypom]

Hindgut issues and management come up a lot on this forum, but I don’t think that Equinenectar has ever been mentioned and I’ve not heard of it, so no views on it either way.

If you suspect hind gut issues, then look at the Equibiome test and adding oily herbs (rosemary, oregano, thyme) to the diet.

 

[deicinmerlyn]

Equinectar and Ponease are being heavily marketed on FB. They are supplements, not treatment.
Also expensive!
They won’t cure ulcers if your has them.

 

[Pinkvboots]

What tiddlypom said and I believe sulcrafate is the treatment for hind gut ulcers, gastro guard can actually aggravate hind gut ulcers so quite often vets will prescribe both if they suspect hind git ulcers.

 

[Needtoretire]

I haven’t heard of it for hindgut I used aloe vera juice

How were your hindgut problems diagnosed please.

 

[Needtoretire]

What tiddlypom said and I believe sulcrafate is the treatment for hind gut ulcers, gastro guard can actually aggravate hind gut ulcers so quite often vets will prescribe both if they suspect hind git ulcers.

We did a lengthy course of Sulcrafate after leaving the hospital.

The grumps that have worsened considerably since xmas, are a concern and a course of gastroguard has been done with no change to the attitude. The ridden work shows no sign of pain or reluctance, horse is really forward going, ears pricked and huge stride and always interested in what we are doing, yet in the stable when the tack approaches she is unhappy but as soon as she leaves her stable she is happy, not a word when the girth goes up, no issue to get on board. Tack fits and is checked 3 monthly, hocks ok, shoe wear even and soft on both reins. We have steep hills and she goes up and down easily and balanced. The attitude in the stable is not remotely showing in ridden work which puzzles me because when she was ill last year the ridden work was abysmal.

 

[Pinkvboots]

Perhaps it's a learnt pain response and his anticipating it to hurt when she sees the tack?

Just a thought

Has she had a full work up done at the vets because ulcers are normally secondary to something else causing pain and stress.

Could it be hormones?

 

[Needtoretire]

Perhaps it's a learnt pain response and his anticipating it to hurt when she sees the tack?

Just a thought

Has she had a full work up done at the vets because ulcers are normally secondary to something else causing pain and stress.

Could it be hormones?

That is a valid point and something mentioned to me by a vet. There was no doubt she had substantial gut pain before being helped last year and well before that. She is very intelligent and doesn't forget or forgive. Routine is key for her. Nothing found on MRI full body.

 

[Barton Bounty]

How were your hindgut problems diagnosed please.

They werent, they were presumed. You cannot scope for hindgut

 

[Needtoretire]

They werent, they were presumed. You cannot scope for hindgut

I am aware you cannot scope for hind gut, but was interested in how/why/who advised the use of aloe vera juice. Did you use the Succeed test ?

 

[Barton Bounty]

I am aware you cannot scope for hind gut, but was interested in how/why/who advised the use of aloe vera juice. Did you use the Succeed test ?

I didnt use any test, i presumed and used aloe as a preventative

 

[webble]

Mine is on it now, I saw a slight improvement the first day but then reverted to the issues we are currently trying to resolve with the vet

 

[Tiddlypom]

The Succeed test is sadly notoriously unreliable according to my vet, with both false +ves and -ves.

Aloe Vera juice is only helpful for some mild cases of foregut ulcers, not hindgut issues. Hindgut issues can currently only definitively diagnosed by PM, so currently they are a diagnosis by exclusion of other issues such as foregut ulcers.

A wildly out of kilter hint gut biome such as my mare showed up on the Equibiome test is a strong pointer, though. She’s much better now, but may well have been left with permanent internal scarring.

 

[Pinkvboots]

The Succeed test is sadly notoriously unreliable according to my vet, with both false +ves and -ves.

Aloe Vera juice is only helpful for some mild cases of foregut ulcers, not hindgut issues. Hindgut issues can currently only definitively diagnosed by PM, so currently they are a diagnosis by exclusion of other issues such as foregut ulcers.

A wildly out of kilter hint gut biome such as my mare showed up on the Equibiome test is a strong pointer, though. She’s much better now, but may well have been left with permanent internal scarring.

I have a suspicion that Arabi may have hind gut issues and his a slight head shaker and I noticed that Equibiome do a test for head shakers and I suppose they have discovered there is a connection with gut health.

I tried googling it but there is not alot of information about it so can only assume its a recent thing.

I was thinking of doing the test for him.

 

[Pinkvboots]

That is a valid point and something mentioned to me by a vet. There was no doubt she had substantial gut pain before being helped last year and well before that. She is very intelligent and doesn't forget or forgive. Routine is key for her. Nothing found on MRI full body.

It could be learnt pain when Arabi was young his saddle wasn't right I just couldn't get a fitter that could recognise what the issue was for ages and he would put his ears back when the saddle came towards him, eventually I got a remedial fitter and got a new saddle and he felt like a different horse to ride at last a saddle that fitted, he still however had a reaction when he saw the saddle it took a long time for him to stop reacting to it.

 

[Needtoretire]

I didnt use any test, i presumed and used aloe as a preventative

Ah, understand now thanks. I wouldn't dare presume with horse health, not that brave !

 

[Needtoretire]

It could be learnt pain when Arabi was young his saddle wasn't right I just couldn't get a fitter that could recognise what the issue was for ages and he would put his ears back when the saddle came towards him, eventually I got a remedial fitter and got a new saddle and he felt like a different horse to ride at last a saddle that fitted, he still however had a reaction when he saw the saddle it took a long time for him to stop reacting to it.

That is interesting thank you. My horse had very sore M&S when I bought her 12 years ago, absolutely no chance of clipping her legs and even trying to clean and cream them was a dangerous saga. I clicker trained her to accept them being treated, it took time and patience but we got there, but even when dealt with and painless she remembered the pain for many years. I can do anything with her legs now but still reward with clicker.

 

[Barton Bounty]

Ah, understand now thanks. I wouldn't dare presume with horse health, not that brave !

He had been scoped and no ulcers at all, so having been a racehorse I just used it as a preventative really

 

[Needtoretire]

He had been scoped and no ulcers at all, so having been a racehorse I just used it as a preventative really

Would that be a preventative to hind gut issues ? is there any science behind the use of Aloe Vera juice for that type of problem please.

 

[Barton Bounty]

Would that be a preventative to hind gut issues ? is there any science behind the use of Aloe Vera juice for that type of problem please.

recommended for hindgut is brewers yeast but my horse wouldnt eat his dinner with it in.
Aloe was recommended for squamous but it is proven to soother the digestive tract and did not do any harm at all to my boy.
Another good cheap soother is seaweed extract or comfort gut which is activated charcoal

 

[Tiddlypom]

Would that be a preventative to hind gut issues ? is there any science behind the use of Aloe Vera juice for that type of problem please.

Not that I am aware of, or has ever been suggested to me by either of the equine vets who deal with my hind gut issue horse.

Aloe Vera juice may possibly help ease the symptoms of some horses with foregut ulcers type symptoms.

Remember that this a forum and you do not know how competent or experienced posters are, even if they are prolific .

I have been through the hind gut issue diagnosis for my own homebred mare via my vets after she scoped clear for foregut ulcers - which surprised all 3 of us. Both vets recommend the Equibiome test if hind gut issues are suspected. She has responded very well to the Equibiome protocol, it saved her life.

 

[Needtoretire]

Not that I am aware of, or has ever been suggested to me by either of the equine vets who deal with my hind gut issue horse.

Aloe Vera juice may possibly help some horses with foregut ulcers type symptoms.

Remember that this a forum and you do not know how competent or experienced posters are, even if they are prolific .

I have been through the hind gut issue diagnosis for my via my vets after she scoped clear for foregut ulcers. Both vets recommend the Equibiome test if hind gut issues are suspected. She has responded very well to the Equibiome protocol, it saved her life.

Yes, and thank you I twigged that, hence asking for science behind the claims. Having been a racehorse doesn't mean you have to shove anything and everything down its throat as an experiment.

 

[Barton Bounty]

Yes, and thank you I twigged that, hence asking for science behind the claims. Having been a racehorse doesn't mean you have to shove anything and everything down its throat as an experiment.

This forum is indeed hilarious at times with heirachy. And remember that other members tap out at the start of an issue

BB did have hindgut issues initially so that was my reasoning not that I need to explain myself

 

[ycbm]

What's she being fed? I've had two horses who showed colicky type behaviour which might be interpreted as hind gut acidosis, related to haylage. One could not tolerate haylage at all. The other only had issues when the haylage smelt more acidic.

I would be sure to feed yeast, (it's in most gut supplements for good tested reasons). If the horse won't eat brewers yeast because of the taste they will normally eat yeasacc, which because it's the live version needs only a third as much as doesn't have as strong a taste as it hasn't been brewed with.
.

 

[webble]

@Tiddlypom I keep forgetting to ask you how long did your mare take to show improvement with the equibiome protocol

 

[Needtoretire]

What's she being fed? I've had two horses who showed colicky type behaviour which might be interpreted as hind gut acidosis, related to haylage. One could not tolerate haylage at all. The other only had issues when the haylage smelt more acidic.

I would be sure to feed yeast, (it's in most gut supplements for good tested reasons). If the horse won't eat brewers yeast because of the taste they will normally eat yeasacc, which because it's the live version needs only a third as much as doesn't have as strong a taste as it hasn't been brewed with.
.

Meadow hay dunked with some barley straw mixed through it as per equine hospital advice to prolong long forage going through the gut 24/7. Topspec senior lite balancer with zero chaff, 3 capsules of saccharomyces Boulardii, micronised linseed and handful of fibre nuts x twice daily, no grazing at present.

She has never had haylage as she puts shed loads of weight on and eats it far too quickly.

The Equinectar success stories caught my eye, hence me thinking I would ask the forum, but I am sceptical about non peer reviewed health products.

 

[Tiddlypom]

@Tiddlypom I keep forgetting to ask you how long did your mare take to show improvement with the equibiome protocol

Marked improvement within a fortnight, and a continuing upward curve over the next few months which has been maintained nearly 3 years later.

 

[webble]

Marked improvement within a fortnight, and a continuing upward curve over the next few months which has been maintained nearly 3 years later.

Ah thank you, maybe I need to be more patient then, it's only been 3 weeks but no joy so far

 

[ycbm]

The Equinectar success stories caught my eye, hence me thinking I would ask the forum, but I am sceptical about non peer reviewed health products.

You and me both! I've never even heard of Equinectar, sorry not to be any help there.

I would definitely look at the stuff on oily herbs, though. They can't hurt and might help.
.