No more Rolkur? Has Anky finally got it?

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Mearas

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Anky Van Grunsven was recently quoted when discussing her new interest in reining, as saying;

Van Grunsven admits that the subtlety of the aids has been the biggest adjustment for her. "Actually, my dressage is getting better because of the reining. In reining you have to give even fewer aids and everything is looser".

From 'Dressage Today' Magazine
 
Mearas said:
Anky Van Grunsven was recently quoted when discussing her new interest in reining, as saying;

Van Grunsven admits that the subtlety of the aids has been the biggest adjustment for her. "Actually, my dressage is getting better because of the reining. In reining you have to give even fewer aids and everything is looser".

From 'Dressage Today' Magazine
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Yes it was intresting to see her early atempts and a year or so later her runs at the WEG in kentucky big inprovement:D I belive quite a few of the top dressage people are dabling with reining and the western way of training... oh well full circle back to xenaphon and clasical horsemanship ...
 
Absolutely! Just a shame the horses have to go through so much before riders realise that there is an easier, softer, gentler way to achieve results.
 
Tinypony said:
I think that really depends on the reining trainer. Some is pretty much as bad as rolkur IMHO. http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=458967
It's nice to experience a "soft and light" horse, but you need to know why it feels like that.
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Yes, Tiny Pony I think that bad training is sadly to be seen in all aspects of horses. My comments were addressed to Perfect 11's suggestion that we should go back to Xenophon and Classical Training. Just wondering if high profile riders are begining at long last to realise the real benefits of classical dressage but it is perhaps difficult to admit this so maybe reining is a way of changing direction without losing face????
 
I think people should keep in mind that according to A van Grunsven and Co. she has never ridden Rollkur, nor has any of Janssen's disciples.

Lovely.

Also, another rider captured on camera by Epona during that notorious Reining competition was a violent woman on a Palomino dragging it round, and round, and round, and round etc. in a spin, head neatly folded into the chest.
That is Anky's reining trainer.

So I'd restrain the celebratory choir a little longer.
 
Mearas said:
Absolutely! Just a shame the horses have to go through so much before riders realise that there is an easier, softer, gentler way to achieve results.
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Im very pro western and the classical methods it uses but very anti these trainers that use harsh and abusive methods to get quick results however people should remember quarter horses should have a natualy low headset and western riding is about working cattle or riding in rough terain so for both you needed a relaxed but responsive mount..
so to some english riders which was origanaly about riding a horse in battle and looking proud and aggresive things can look a little odd ....
 
Yes, quarter horses do have a naturally low head carriage, but not as low as some in that video. That's been trained. They are capable of carrying themselves very nicely in a "lifted" shape as well.
 
I just wonder what these horses feel like to ride? On a beautiful, softly trained classical dressage horse that is working with you, the feeling is unbelievable and from my own experience both myself and my horse search for that feeling again. For those who have never expereinced this I don't think they ever return to the more modern approach to riding.
 
In my experience they feel a bit heavy really. And it feels horrible to have nothing in front of you because their head is so artificially low. Mind you, I went and rode some "classically trained" horses and found them dead to the leg and heavy in my hand as well. So it really does depend on what the trainer does with it all doesn't it?
I'm turning into a hermit who doesn't like riding anyone else's horses. Mine are far from perfect, but at least I don't have to keep at them with my legs or heels, and they don't lean on my hands. A traditional "English" contact feels hard to me. I'm just on my own little planet. Ignore me.
Anyway, I guess that video explains why Anky has found a love for reining, the training she's seeing must look very familiar. Just think of what that curb bit feels like every time that woman jabs with it!
 
Sounds as though we are on the same planet:D My understanding of the English rein that you refered to is a horse powering fast forward out of its natural gait and balancing on the rein. I see it everywhere and personally wonder if it is the root cause of so many injuries particularly in the neck, back and sacroliac region.
 
I wouldn't assume the big time western world is sweetness and light. It's like everything else, there is good and bad. But competitive western showing can be pretty brutal and even my relatively hardy sensitivities were shocked a few times by not so much what people do, but what they do in public! I know doing it behind closed doors doesn't make it better but I figure at least then people sort of know they're doing something not everyone thinks is right. I was once standing by a rail at a big AQHA show with a friend, commenting on a WP trainer armed with a bull whip and too VERY large men came over and told us to move along . . . I have to say, I've never been threatened at a horse show before!

Don't get me wrong, I love a lot of western riding and I've sat on some good reining horses and they are fun, fun, fun. :) I'm just talking numbers and observation.

Also, it's been my experience that horses that excel in any discipline are the ones built and developed for the job. It was a real revelation to me to see and sit on some GOOD young QHs and realise they just moved the way they way they're "supposed" to from the start. Like good jumping horses or dressage horses. These horses do less schooling and are easier to train. It's the square pegs that people are trying to force into round holes (sometimes out of ego or because they don't want to be out of pocket, sometimes because they profess to "love" the horse) that really take the abuse. And I'd say that's so across all the disciplines.
 
Tinypony said:
In my experience they feel a bit heavy really. And it feels horrible to have nothing in front of you because their head is so artificially low.
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I can't associate with that at all - unless you like looking at the world through a pair of horse's ears. A well-trained reiner is anything but heavy. Alex Hua Tian rode one of my reiners earlier this year and was, I think, blown away by just how sensitive the horse was. He said how refreshing it was to ride a horse that gave such an instant response, no questions, and how the horse's solid training in all the basics was so evident.
 
Hen said:
I can't associate with that at all - unless you like looking at the world through a pair of horse's ears. A well-trained reiner is anything but heavy. Alex Hua Tian rode one of my reiners earlier this year and was, I think, blown away by just how sensitive the horse was. He said how refreshing it was to ride a horse that gave such an instant response, no questions, and how the horse's solid training in all the basics was so evident.
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The question was "I wonder how these horses feel to ride...?"

My reply was to that. A well trained reiner feels magic to ride, but I don't class these as well trained. I have ridden a reiner that I realised had been forcefully trained and it really lacked... something.
 
[/QUOTE]Also, it's been my experience that horses that excel in any discipline are the ones built and developed for the job. It was a real revelation to me to see and sit on some GOOD young QHs and realise they just moved the way they way they're "supposed" to from the start. Like good jumping horses or dressage horses. These horses do less schooling and are easier to train. It's the square pegs that people are trying to force into round holes (sometimes out of ego or because they don't want to be out of pocket, sometimes because they profess to "love" the horse) that really take the abuse. And I'd say that's so across all the disciplines.[/QUOTE]

From a dressage point of view, I think that it is about developing the very best that horse has to offer without force. For example, it is highly unlikely that a heavy working horse (due to confirmation) will be able to do a Passage but could do a lovely half pass. Any horse schooled correctly will be able to do what is asked of it with less effort and less physical and mental damage. Many more advanced horses suffer because they are being asked to do more and more at a younger age incorrectly. I so agree with you that 'less is more'.
 
Mearas said:
Absolutely! Just a shame the horses have to go through so much before riders realise that there is an easier, softer, gentler way to achieve results.
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Agreed.

I'm continually amazed by the pictures, even on here, of over bent horses and no one says a word..............
 
But it's that old problem again, people look at a few videos on the internet and generalise across a whole section of the sport. Obviously that doesn't excuse the people who ARE riding badly but to say that reining is this or than based on a few minutes of footage is just as unfair as to do the same for eventing, hunting etc. I'm sure there is footage from Riding Clubs that would make people throw their hands up!
 
*dons tin hat* I seem to be doing that a lot lately!
I'm not sure what the issue is with that video?? Would someone explain to me why some horses warming up at a reining comp has got everyone throwing their hands up?!
 
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