No turnout horse very unhappy

It's a difficult one we use a sacrifice pasture for winter .
If you on clay soils fields do not recover .
Despite spending money and time on mine every year theres a big different between it and my other fields .
It's rested every year April till end of september and maintainence done .
It's is five /six acres and has four horses on it most livery yards don't have over an acre a horse to rest all summer so it's aviable in winter .
Mine looks like the Somme it's terrible it's borderline if they are safe in it this year ,and we are not in an area that's been one of the wettest .
I am using my school ( which I hate doing as its very bad for it ) and restricting turnout to a minimum tbh that not hard as they want to be in after an hour.
I have trained all of mine but one to accept stabling as a nice thing ( the summer is the time to do this ) the one that's not great is fine if you turn him out in the school first thing for a while.
Even with my five acres per horse it's not ideal.
So back to yards honestly I think that turnout pens with some sort of cheap surface is a must for livery yards I would love a big woodchip pen .
And a decent properly draining school.
These conditions are also the time when a walker can really be the most useful.
Of course things like this would but up livery costs but if winters are going to become warmer and wetter I think this will be the way things have to go YOers will have to plan for it better and liverys will have to pay for it through higher bills.
 
Goldenstar said:
It's a difficult one we use a sacrifice pasture for winter .
If you on clay soils fields do not recover .
Despite spending money and time on mine every year theres a big different between it and my other fields .
It's rested every year April till end of september and maintainence done .
It's is five /six acres and has four horses on it most livery yards don't have over an acre a horse to rest all summer so it's aviable in winter .
Mine looks like the Somme it's terrible it's borderline if they are safe in it this year ,and we are not in an area that's been one of the wettest .
I am using my school ( which I hate doing as its very bad for it ) and restricting turnout to a minimum tbh that not hard as they want to be in after an hour.
I have trained all of mine but one to accept stabling as a nice thing ( the summer is the time to do this ) the one that's not great is fine if you turn him out in the school first thing for a while.
Even with my five acres per horse it's not ideal.
So back to yards honestly I think that turnout pens with some sort of cheap surface is a must for livery yards I would love a big woodchip pen .
And a decent properly draining school.
These conditions are also the time when a walker can really be the most useful.
Of course things like this would but up livery costs but if winters are going to become warmer and wetter I think this will be the way things have to go YOers will have to plan for it better and liverys will have to pay for it through higher bills.
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we have woodchip turn outs but they are now bogs as they are not maintained so cant even use those...
 
to all of you saying/complaiing about not being able to lunge or loose school-imagine 10/15/20 horses ALL going ballistic on a daily basis-sure fire way to trash the arena and thats going to be tens of thousands to sort, are you all happy to stump up a few thousand towards it? and no doubt you would all complain if a horse damaged the membrane and then you couldnt ride whilst it was fixed..............

i dont allow any loose schooling at all,or lunging of over fresh horses as it just trashed the surface. I am lucky to have sandy soil and well drained paddocks but i still wouldnt sacrifice the arena for turnout if they were all in.

get on board and work them HARD every day, i wouldnt even try and hand walk etc.
 
I would push the point about lungeing - it really does work. My last yard had very restricted turnout in winter rain, and if i didn't have time to ride (or the weather was too bad), I was so grateful to whoever invented lungeing.

Hope you get this sorted.
 
I would ditto rte suggestion, can you box to an indoor so it's safe for him to lunge or just let rip. I wouldn't move yards if everything else is ok, we really have had exceptional weather!

We have four on 12 acres, normally the end of January we shut off six acres so it can rest for April, but ATM we are leaving it open to give them more variety and shelter for every wind direction, even though they also have a field shelter. Ours is hilly too, boggy at the bottom, but the slopes and the tops are reasonable, I won't say dry (currently hammering it down!) but it's ok, two are out 24/7 anyway.
 
Prince33Sp4rkle said:
to all of you saying/complaiing about not being able to lunge or loose school-imagine 10/15/20 horses ALL going ballistic on a daily basis-sure fire way to trash the arena and thats going to be tens of thousands to sort, are you all happy to stump up a few thousand towards it? and no doubt you would all complain if a horse damaged the membrane and then you couldnt ride whilst it was fixed..............

i dont allow any loose schooling at all,or lunging of over fresh horses as it just trashed the surface. I am lucky to have sandy soil and well drained paddocks but i still wouldnt sacrifice the arena for turnout if they were all in.

get on board and work them HARD every day, i wouldnt even try and hand walk etc.
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That was basically what I was trying to say in my post. In the bad flood of 2007 I used my parents sand school for my three as a turn out - it completely trashed it and tore the membrane in two different places - also trying to pick droppings out of an arena which has had a fresh horse teararsing around it is pretty impossible - I would not do that again.

It is difficult and we are blessed with a walker at home which does make things a million times better but with these winds and clay ground fresh horses are going to end up breaking themselves and you if you're not careful. Very very tricky to find any solution in what most yard owners would say is completely unpredictable weather.
 
In theory working them hard everyday is the perfect solution but our ménage is sodden at the moment and could cause injury. Even at midday, it is often too dark to ride out on the roads near us, even though we can get to quieter lanes after a few hundred yards, the initial stretch is very dangerous in bad weather.
For 9 months of the year, our yard is pretty perfect but during the worst of the winter, keeping stable bound horses sane is a challenge.
I do think it is time that bigger yards looked seriously at the management of horses in winter. Turnout areas, horse walkers,even temporary pens in open barns, or giving access to quiet routes for hacking to avoid main roads are possible solutions. Even enclosing the yard to allow some horses to have a leg stretch is an option. Just thinking creatively when money is tight, could make life a little better for those restricted to stables for weeks on end.
 
OP i totally can sympatise, i to have a 4 year old on restricted turnout who is turning into a monster, i am lucky in which he does get out but only onto my driveway so not much room to burn energy roll etc but at least he is out his box and can stretch his legs, i have been unable to exercise him last few weeks due to long hours at work, personal problems at home and no arena at all so i am glad he can at least get out or he would be climbing the walls :(

i am hoping to get on him at the weekend, think my brave pants will be needed lol!

hopefully not long till we see some improvement ( i hope!!)
 
We are lucky, we are on clay and it is very wet and muddy especially in gate ways but it's farm owned and they allow turnout all year. It did get trashed last year but came back fine. Having grass coming late is a good thing for me so I'm not bothered that it will be well into May before it starts to look better, the joys of weight watching. If I had to keep her in she wouldn't be getting 11 hours picking around for grass, I'd have to feed her hay ad lib to Stop her going nuts and she would ballon so I feel for the op.
 
Goldenstar said:
Interesting , how did they build them , and what maintainence should they get .
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they were built with hard core membrane and then wood chip. then with post and rail splitting them. In autumn it was evident that they needed digging out and fresh bark down as they had got very deep. they did 2 of them (full livs of course.) then decided it was too much work...
 
Please can I just highlight the risk of turning out in outdoor arenas (not sure if it's been mentioned haven't read all thread) but TWO horses this week at our yard have jumped out the arena. Could have ended up a lot worse. One slipped and got all 4 legs stuck under a car. Ripped the front grill off but luckily it was unharmed. The other caught a back hoof on the fence as it jumped out and landed on it's neck. Again got up unharmed but could have been very bad! So please be wary of letting fresh horses loose!
 
Shysmum said:
Do some YO's keep a field "to be trashed" in winter, so that horses can have an hour or so out each ?
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yes some do, our local DIY has a couple which they take it in turns in, at an RS/livery down the road they have 3 that they take turns in for a bit in winter.
 
NellRosk said:
Please can I just highlight the risk of turning out in outdoor arenas (not sure if it's been mentioned haven't read all thread) but TWO horses this week at our yard have jumped out the arena. Could have ended up a lot worse. One slipped and got all 4 legs stuck under a car. Ripped the front grill off but luckily it was unharmed. The other caught a back hoof on the fence as it jumped out and landed on it's neck. Again got up unharmed but could have been very bad! So please be wary of letting fresh horses loose!
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Surely there is a risk of a horse jumping out whether it is turned out in a field or an arena? Have you any idea what prompted the horses to jump out? Was the fencing very low, or is the arena out of sight of other horses so they panicked and jumped out to find company?
 
yes, a yard that I was at a few years back had two trash paddocks for winter - scalpings in the gateways to prevent them becoming unusable.
They were on clay so never really recovered in summer but were useful for summer turnout for laminitis-prone Shetlands etc
The summer fields flooded in bad weather so using the trash paddocks all winter protected them for summer grazing.
 
TGM said:
Surely there is a risk of a horse jumping out whether it is turned out in a field or an arena? Have you any idea what prompted the horses to jump out? Was the fencing very low, or is the arena out of sight of other horses so they panicked and jumped out to find company?
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I know I was actually pondering that!! I'm not sure, it's wooden fencing with a 5 bar wooden gate which both horses jumped out of. I think it might just be the excitement of being out for a bit and different because they're usually exercised there? I would like to loose school my mare over jumps but don't dare now in case she jumps out! It must happen at other places though, when I was taking my mare to be Irish Draught graded they said they would only hold the jump grading at places with indoor schools because the horses kept jumping out of outdoor ones!
 
MileAMinute said:
I wouldn't be working a 4yo 'hard'.
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short term i would work it as hard as it needs to be worked in order to avoid injury to horse or handler caused by it being over fresh.

better a bit of puff and white sweat than a frantic dangerous idiot you cant even lead around.

in an ideal world sand pens and walkers would prevent the horses being cooped up but in countries where grazing is very limited, they do cope (its not ideal of course but they DO make it work)-we need to learn how to make it work for us too.

personally my plan would be to ride every day, twice at weekends, plus hand grazing and hand walking (i dont really like walkers that much personally, as think they stress joints-would rather hand walk in straight lines).

proper work though, not fannying round on the track in walk/trot/canter once each way as so many people i see seem to think is work!

then hand graze when they are a bit puffed.
 
I must say that we use our arena for short spells of turnout in wet weather without it getting trashed. We were advised by the arena constructors that turning out in it was fine, but not to put hay out as that is what can often cause an arena to fail. They have plenty of haylage in the stable beforehand so aren't hungry when they go out and are supervised at all times to ensure no digging or wood chewing goes on. If they have a hooley it doesn't disturb the surface anymore than an active jumping session would and just needs raking over afterwards. I can understand if owners were wanting to leave horses turned out in an arena for extended periods of time unsupervised or wanting to put hay out, but I don't think it is unreasonable for the OP to ask the YO if the horse can have 15 minutes loose in the school ONLY on the days when no turnout is allowed. The OP should, of course, explain to the YO that the horse will be supervised and the arena raked and any droppings removed afterwards by the OP. If the youngster has a mad moment and the OP comes off, it is probably going to end up having a wild hooly loose in the school anyway!
 
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but if EVERYONE at the yard demands the same, 1x 5min hooley is actually more like 2 hours of hooley and that will totally destroy the surface, esp as we all know not every person will actually bother to pick up droppings etc.

too much of a risk for the YO.
 
Prince33sprkle - lets hope no one rides a fresh horse in your school then, or each of your liveries ride everyday in the school if thats how you feel. The average fresh horse doesnt damage schools, if anything a riderless hyped up horse could try to jump out after losing its rider. It is the bored still turned out thats chewing the wooden fence and digging the hole in the sand that damages the school.

It isnt healthy for animals to be cooped up, and liveries have to work, they dont have time to muck out, hand grass unless their working time allows, some horses can no longer be ridden and are becoming more unhealthy for being cooped up in boxes 24hrs a day. Does the livery owner suggest that the livery give them their vet bill because the horses arthritis has got worse for not moving around and being turned out, no, the livery just has to suck it up, so why should the repair of fields be thrown back in liveries faces, it really isnt a big deal, the earth does heal itself.

I still say if you cant manage the needs around having horses then dont take on the business.
 
Seeing both sides here - no turnout on fields for weeks in our yard, and no turnout or loose schooling allowed in our sand arena. My lad would definitely damage the arena or himself if let loose to hoolley - he's flipped out on the lunge a couple of times recently and lost his back end and gone down, and once he got loose and headed straight for the fence, god knows how he stopped before he hit it (he's not a jumper :-)).

So I'm having to ride or otherwise exercise every day come hell or high water - but at least we are allowed to lunge in the arena. Would your YO not make an exception on that, due to the lack of any TO? What about long reining? I'm essentially lunging figs. of 8s on the long reins with mine. Now that's a good workout (although if he's only 4 you won't want to do too much on circles, maybe).
 
putasocinit said:
I still say if you cant manage the needs around having horses then dont take on the business.
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I don't think you can apply that to this weather - it is shocking. No one expected this - there are many business owners, local authorities and government bodies who have not been meeting the needs of people these last few weeks.

What about all of those yard owners without schools with closed turnout - what do you expect would happen then? What happens when the yard owner gets so much grief for closing the turnout that they open it and horses get injured, have to be PTS?

Threads like this make me so glad we keep them at home with no liveries - trying to keep horses in this weather is hard enough without an entourage of moaning liveries - it is horrendous weather - there is no quick fix to that.
 
I think that the YO is being unreasonable under the circumstances. Yes, I understand why there should be no turnout. Yes I understand why she doesn't want horses loose in the school, but as there is no turnout, I feel this should be allowed. I have lived here ten years. I am a YO and have had to close the fields due to the weather and being on clay soil. But I have always allowed turnout, loose schooling and lunging in the arena. In ten years, I have not had any lasting damage done to the arena through these activities. One horse had to be banned from being turned out in it because she dug massive holes that took for ever to fill in. But she is the exception. I also have a dedicated sand turnout.

I really think that under the circumstances your YO should allow lungeing. Some horses can go a bit mad on the lunge and cut the surface up, but it is easily levelled again.
 
If these horses which are now jumping out of their skins had been allowed turnout for 30mins or lunged in the school or turned out in school for 30mins they wouldnt now be jumping out of their skin, so in essence when they are finally turned out in the fields they could run riot and leap over the field fence or gate, so possibly and accident today or in a months time, if it is going to happen it will happen.
 
It's a bit of a nightmare all round really and I consider myself one of the lucky ones as our school doesn't flood and also my yard are still turning out most days.

I just couldn't be on a yard that stopped winter turnout and didn't have indoor/walker facilities to make up for it. A horse cannot be shut in a stable 24/7 it is just plain wrong, so if you are an owner that cannot physically be there to exercise your horse well every day you have my sympathies. It's tough and if this trend continues we will need to adapt the way we keep our horses - which most likely means good indoor facilities and pay the price accordingly if you don't live in an area with decent land available.
 
I don't know why but some yards seem to have less stressed horses generally. Currently none of the stabled horses on our 50 horse yard are showing any vices or over excitability when turned out in the school or ridden. Other large yards we've been on have had horrendous problems with horses jumping out of the ménages when turned out for an hour and the horses being so stressed that they were unsafe to ride.
The only common factor I can think of, was that the more settled horses were on yards that usually did have herd turnout with large acreage as opposed to those offering small individual/pair paddocks. Perhaps the ones with large fields to roam were better able to cope when all were kept in.
 
putasocinit said:
Prince33sprkle - lets hope no one rides a fresh horse in your school then, or each of your liveries ride everyday in the school if thats how you feel. The average fresh horse doesnt damage schools, if anything a riderless hyped up horse could try to jump out after losing its rider. It is the bored still turned out thats chewing the wooden fence and digging the hole in the sand that damages the school.

It isnt healthy for animals to be cooped up, and liveries have to work, they dont have time to muck out, hand grass unless their working time allows, some horses can no longer be ridden and are becoming more unhealthy for being cooped up in boxes 24hrs a day. Does the livery owner suggest that the livery give them their vet bill because the horses arthritis has got worse for not moving around and being turned out, no, the livery just has to suck it up, so why should the repair of fields be thrown back in liveries faces, it really isnt a big deal, the earth does heal itself.

I still say if you cant manage the needs around having horses then dont take on the business.
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not really seeing your point? i dont allow riderless horses full stop so no riderless horse is going to go tear arsing round trashing the surface? if anyone falls off horse is caught in 2-5mins, but if every single person wants to loose school daily thats a lot more wear and tear-apply basic logic.

fortuunately its only me, NMT and lovely livery who treats it like her own,and would not want the surface ruined any more than me.

if you cant hand graze or hand walk there will be someone you can pay to do it whilst you are at work...... not great for the bank account but better for the horse AND the arena surface.

this winter is exceptional in terms of wet land so we have to make exceptional efforts to keep the horses happy, but IMO that doesnt include ruining the remaining facilities.
 
Broke_But_Happy said:
Out of interest, twiggy2 and siennamum, what soil are you on?

Ours ha e basically been in since mid December, we're on heavy clay and a steep hill so too high a risk of serious injury. They're getting turned out in the school for a couple of hours in the morning and ridden every night. Luckily mine is the stoic sort and is still his normal, lovely self.
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We have fields which are the head of a very deep valley on a limestone ridge, but deep heavy soil. It means we have extremely steep hills and springs & water running off all the fields. They are sodden. 2 of the horses go out a few days a week, they are too greedy and fat to have a permanent big bale in the field. They also are happy in 24/7. Another 5 who are out when dry & in when persistently wet, they are out 24/7 a lot of the time with big bales and islands of hay to roll on & lay down in (see illustration). 2 TB sport horses are still out 24/7 and have been all Winter. They also have a big bale and have created a nice hay bed.

Ground is like a ploughed field round the hay but still green on the reverse side of the valley and they go off and canter round, play & graze as normal.

All of them charge round in deep mud & fingers crossed seem to be thriving.

It's not how everyone would want to keep horses but suits ours.

Fields will dry out in 3 days of dry weather, harrow them, roll them and come Spring I will be cursing the amount of grass we have, just as I do every year.
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