No turnout horse very unhappy

justabob said:
Morons? If the cap fits Flame. The wettest winter in 200 years? Glad your YM/YO are so understanding. I would not personally want my horse out in this weather, but I understand that it is not your land and you will be living in the moment.
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This is surely the point of trash paddocks, if you can't afford that over winter in the uk, or another turnout provision then you shouldn't be running livery IMHO. Our gateways and field shelter areas get trashed and get fenced off in summer to recover, probably 1 acre max. The rest gets harrowed and rolled annually (at least). morons? Well, it's been managed this way for 25 years and we still have far too much grass in good summers and have to ask the farmer to put some sheep on for us.

Eta, I'm not talking about this extreme weather or a few days here and there, I'm talking yards who do this on a regular basis every year.
 
stencilface said:
This is surely the point of trash paddocks, if you can't afford that over winter in the uk, or another turnout provision then you shouldn't be running livery IMHO. Our gateways and field shelter areas get trashed and get fenced off in summer to recover, probably 1 acre max. The rest gets harrowed and rolled annually (at least). morons? Well, it's been managed this way for 25 years and we still have far too much grass in good summers and have to ask the farmer to put some sheep on for us.
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Exactly!
 
Thing is, its easy to say YOs should have more land or less liveries but they dont. I graze two on many acres and on rotation but I am in a lucky minority. The livery down the road has rubbish, overstocked grazing and I wouldnt touch it with a bargepole. But what if there is no alternative?
OP I hope you can sort something!
 
justabob said:
I shall bring the same glue that I am using on Red!!!! How is that damn dog getting on??
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Ooh can I borrow the glue please? Actually in fairness we're coping - I put her out for an hour or so this morning and am going to attempt to hack out in the morning (if you see an air ambulance heading this way about 9am it'll probably be for me!). Kenzi is the same whatever - typical native - as long as she's got food she doesn't care where it comes from.
Dog is fine - he had a few 5 minutes of freedom off the lead and then we went back to physio last night to be told that he has deteriorated again!! AARRGGGHHH. So a few days of lead walking again before we attempt to let him off again - the only problem is that when we let him off he goes off like a greyhound - doesn't do things slowly!
 
Nudibranch said:
Thing is, its easy to say YOs should have more land or less liveries but they dont. I graze two on many acres and on rotation but I am in a lucky minority. The livery down the road has rubbish, overstocked grazing and I wouldnt touch it with a bargepole. But what if there is no alternative?
OP I hope you can sort something!
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No alternative to being on a yard over grazed with no turnout and no use of facilities so that horse was in 23 hours a day? Quite simply I would not have a horse in that situation. No alternative? No one puts a gun to my head, I have horses for the fun of it all, not to be on some squalid livery yard with naff all to enjoy.
 
RunToEarth said:
I'm not sure where I called liveries morons but whatever, HHO Friday club out in force.

Perhaps when viewing a yard and it's facilities, take into account the amount of liveries and the amount of grazing, then think of this crap weather and look at the grazing again.

I do think there are a lot of YOs out there don't have enough grazing for clients, but more fool liveries for signing up and paying bills. We have 12 acres grazing for 3 horses and I wouldn't want more this year, or last year.
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I did, in part because I was used to managing my own grazing (4.5 acres for 2 which worked well and provided hay crop). Even though we are on a chalk slope and not that muddy compared to others the YO has opted to keep 2 stables empty this winter to make life easier on the ground. Horses also only go out 7-2ish atm but they do go out every day regardless.
 
Such a difficult and emotive issue.

I can understand the OP wanting some form of turnout or freedom for her 4 yr old, after all, too much pounding round is not good for a youngster's joints. And, despite the need to train them to accept stabling in case of box rest, once they start to get upset or fractious about being in continuously it makes it a bigger issue for them if they ever do need to be on box rest. Far better that they have the short intervals and then the release, be that two days in and a day out or twenty minutes each day playing and rolling.

We have our own yard, with plenty of level fields that are luckily not too wet, except in gateways and the one main track, a woodchip area intended for restricted turnout, and an arena but I wouldn't leave them turned out unsupervised in the arena. In fact at present even the woodchip is becoming too deep to want them charging round in it, which they are more likely to do if they only get out every once in a blue moon. Having a 4 yr old who is now on injury related box rest, I can also see the problems that can arise from hooleying round in deep mud, and as a YO I would not want to have liveries coming back to moan about the ensuing vet bills.

Although I think that if YOs are regularly needing to restrict turnout in winter for more than two or three days at a time (and some do this year in year out), then they do need to assess the feasibility of providing some form of free turnout area with sand, second hand surface, woodchip or old bed shavings. Even if it is just a 15m x 30m fenced area that liveries can turn out for twenty mins whilst they muck out it would help alleviate a lot of owners distress.
 
We have two all weather turnout areas at our yard of 16 horses as emergency use! We all have our own fields which we manage! They will be narrowed and rolled in Summer and we have left two fields to rest over winter so everybody can rest their fields in Spring! As yard manager, my attitude is that it is easier to give everyone their own fields and its up to them what they do with them! I have two good doers and I have religiously poo picked every week from Nov and will continue until Spring when I then poo pick daily. I have fenced off part of my field two weeks ago to rest it! Luckily mine is on a slope so seems to drain reasonably well and still looks quite green. Mine have been out daily from 5.30am to 6pm every day from end of Oct! They are out 24/7 from Spring to Autumn! I'm just glad that we have the freedom to do what we want with the fields! I could never be at a yard with restricted turn out! My poor mare was on box rest from last Sept to Feb and she got so depressed! She literally drags me out to the field in the morning :-)
 
justabob said:
Yes compromising is a good idea, one day at the moment is no different from the next. We are not getting drying out days. What baffles me though, are you all so incompetent that you can only handle your horses/smallponies when they are living out?
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Agree ( is this a first ?!) as long as they are being worked ( properly) surely they are not all such bad mannered beasts that you can't do a thing with them ?! Fresh or not mine would know to it if they started acting like nobs and being rude.
 
siennamum said:
I'd really rather mine eat hay all year round tbh.
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me too-and they probably will. Its more about the huge potholes that will dry into my *special* soil and the fact that IMO, its too deep to put them in it right now unless I absolutely have to. They have a small trash paddock and the driveway but still don't move around enough hence the exercise. Actual grass I don't care about at all. A lot of livery yards though, won't be wanting to feed hay in the field year round and most livery owners won't want to pay for it.
 
Prince33Sp4rkle said:
Agree ( is this a first ?!) as long as they are being worked ( properly) surely they are not all such bad mannered beasts that you can't do a thing with them ?! Fresh or not mine would know to it if they started acting like nobs and being rude.
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I say!! Agree with the above also.
 
Prince33Sp4rkle said:
Agree ( is this a first ?!) as long as they are being worked ( properly) surely they are not all such bad mannered beasts that you can't do a thing with them ?! Fresh or not mine would know to it if they started acting like nobs and being rude.
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Not all of us have time or facilities to work every day though, so that has to be a consideration too. I expect our horses to cope with bring out rugged appropriately, although I don't turn them out on a postage stamp sized field with no forage or shelter either. Obviously it's unlikely that anyone had everything (we have a great field, no arena though!) you just have to find what works for you. Work, baby and dog means there's not time to ride every day, regardless of facilities (well ok, some laziness there too!)
 
Our field has been shut for two weeks now, we are allowed to turn out in school, can leave them there most of the day if we want,, (only 3 ponies). I won't allow my daughter to ride atm until pony is back in field, and before anyone says anything she is only 2! I cant ride her as she is too small, and don't believe in lunging ponies so a kid can ride them, luckily she is being pretty chilled and likes being in, but would prefer her out, even if she had to come in overnight.
YO pretty decent though and is refunding money as she has shut the field
 
Prince33Sp4rkle said:
Agree ( is this a first ?!) as long as they are being worked ( properly) surely they are not all such bad mannered beasts that you can't do a thing with them ?! Fresh or not mine would know to it if they started acting like nobs and being rude.
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justabob said:
I say!! Agree with the above also.
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I like the tone of surprise at agreeing with each other here, made me laugh :)
 
justabob said:
Yes compromising is a good idea, one day at the moment is no different from the next. We are not getting drying out days. What baffles me though, are you all so incompetent that you can only handle your horses/smallponies when they are living out?
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Prince33Sp4rkle said:
Agree ( is this a first ?!) as long as they are being worked ( properly) surely they are not all such bad mannered beasts that you can't do a thing with them ?! Fresh or not mine would know to it if they started acting like nobs and being rude.
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This shouldn't be my fight since while a lot of people are moaning their horses are getting too sharp through lack of exercise it makes mine more forward and enjoyable to school, but I'll answer anyway…

Many full and part liveries get down to do their horses in the dark ruling out hacking so you're talking five nights schooling which, unless you're working at a pretty high level of training, isn't going to be genuine hard work for the majority of horses, especially as at least a couple of those nights its probably going to be hammering it down so a full hour's kind of ambitious IME.

What about retirees and resting horses? How can you "work them hard?" Why should you to their detriment?

What about novices, or not novices just average people, who are capable of managing their horses under normal circumstances but are massively over-horsed once horse gets shut in?

What about the yard staff who are left to manage people's horses who aren't down at night in the rain working their horses round the school until they're tired because they're busy, or aren't capable or just CBA, when they're way past boiling point?
 
Tbh if I couldnt turn my daughter's pony in the school and she had to be kept in 24/7 I would move her, but as it will be only a few weeks I'll put up with it, my daughter just doesn't get to ride... even though she thinks she is invincible due to a new body protector and thinks she " Can do it all by myself now Mummy"
 
Flame_ said:
This shouldn't be my fight since while a lot of people are moaning their horses are getting too sharp through lack of exercise it makes mine more forward and enjoyable to school, but I'll answer anyway…

Many full and part liveries get down to do their horses in the dark ruling out hacking so you're talking five nights schooling which, unless you're working at a pretty high level of training, isn't going to be genuine hard work for the majority of horses, especially as at least a couple of those nights its probably going to be hammering it down so a full hour's kind of ambitious IME.

What about retirees and resting horses? How can you "work them hard?" Why should you to their detriment?

What about novices, or not novices just average people, who are capable of managing their horses under normal circumstances but are massively over-horsed once horse gets shut in?

What about the yard staff who are left to manage people's horses who aren't down at night in the rain working their horses round the school until they're tired because they're busy, or aren't capable or just CBA, when they're way past boiling point?
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I get your point Flame, but come on, we are in crisis in this country with the floods. If horses are in retirement they won't mind a few months off, novice owners with novice horses will come to no harm if left for a few weeks, crickey it is not life threatening. As for the liveries that can't be arsed, well, what can I say? I also think you over estimate the boiling point of horses owned by the above. If they own a horse that can not be managed without turnout, they should question their ability to own a horse in the first place. As I said this country is in crisis and whinging about turnout is turning my stomach,
 
justabob said:
As I said this country is in crisis and whinging about turnout is turning my stomach,
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I completely agree, and I don't usually agree with jab!

It's crap, these last few weeks have not been fun with regards to looking after horses at all, turnout or not.

But you don't need to look any further than your local news to see the lives, livelihoods, homes and businesses that this weather has completely devastated. First world problems are sodden turnout for your ponies, there are people that have lost everything they live for in this rubbish weather.
 
My three have gone out on two days out of the last seven. My mare even managed two hours out yesterday before she wanted in! Today, she was tied up outside her stable whilst it was cleaned then put back in again. It's too dangerous to try to walk anywhere with trees depositing branches everywhere and I don't have a menage. If I turned her out, she would have gone nuts out in the field. I'm lucky though, she's more than happy to stay in munching hay even if she's not been ridden or walked. I feel awful about the situation, upto now, she has been out practically everyday, even if it's only been for a couple of hours. I haven't ridden in a week.
But she's coping, she's not stressed and when she went out yesterday after a couple of days in, she settled down to eating grass after an initial bomb around.
But this weather is crazy, four severe storms in ten days. Storms that you would likely see maybe three times over the course of a normal winter. So, I am making the best of what I have. There is light at the end of the tunnel, the weatherman said next week should return to normal february weather. I think we'll have snow next!

ETA My mare hates the wind, it's not safe to ride her in it on the roads, and she does not want to be in the field in it either. I can cope with a wet field and mud, but not the wind!!
 
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My fields are about 3/4 flooded and my 3 are still out 24/7. So what if they get trashed - they will recover... We'll all be complaining there is too much grass come summer ;)
 
Fortunately yo is still allowing turn out but I have kept him in on the days when it's really wet and windy as there is no point him being out as he will just stand and shiver in a corner (wouldn't like the Welsh hills he's designed for!)

Previous yo did a Rota turn out one yearwhen it was really bad- ie x horses went out x days etc. He was walked in hand round the school on days he was in and not being ridden. Fortunately the most he will do is spook rather than rear etc.

It's a shame you can't lunge, mine had a buck on the lunge the other day when going into canter, I just extended the line and let him canter a couple of circuits. Obviously I had a hat on.

He was almost "simmering" yesterday when riding, was actually quite nice as he is usually quite lazy, just mixed up the exercises a lot and he actually went really well though I'm not going down the lanes if he feels like that! Was looking at photos from the summer just now and really want to go for a gallop but not safe atm

Though I'd rather have no turn out than be in the situation the people who's homes and yards are flooded are in.
 
nikkimariet said:
I like the tone of surprise at agreeing with each other here, made me laugh :)
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Oh dear, well I have a Welsh D, will do anything for me usually, but after weeks of box rest he has become a PITA to handle on the way in/out to the field - which is a good 5 minute walk btw. I am a novice, should I hang my head in shame whilst all the 'proper' horsey people laugh at and berate me? Yes he scares me in these circumstances, so I will lead in a bridle, with gloves/hat/schooling whip, and will take lessons in groundwork! Not nice to be laughing at novices who are genuinely trying to do their best!
 
We are still turning out on all but the wettest of days. I have allocated three fields with two horses in each that I accept will get muddy however with less horses in them they are holding up OK. I dont put hay in the fields as they fight and make a mess and most gets wasted. Instead I put them all out from 9 am till 11 am, bring in and give hay in the stables for the afternoon, most of them usually do some form of work in the afternoon/ evening. If its bad they all stay in. Their feed and work is adjusted to take that into consideration.
None of them are rude or wild.
If they are in they are all very quiet and are either eating or sleeping during the day.
Mine are all part liveries. They are eating a vast amount of hay so I have made a small increase in the winter livery bill to cover the extra hay as even if they are out for a bit they still come in to big haynets. I charge 75p a day for the extra hay which no one minds.
 
I have got round the poaching issue by having a large area of hardcore with a big square gate post in the middle (8 inch by 8 inch). I have a tie ring on each side and tie nets up on the post. There is a little wastage but not much...
 
Mine are still out in a high up field, out 24/7 and no mud at all, not even the gateways as they're not coming in.

HOWEVER - there isn't much shelter and it must be pretty miserable up there some nights. Can't bring them in for a bit of respite as every indoor space is filled with lambs as its too bad to put them out.

I am usually of the 24 hour out whatever the weather brigade but I must admit I'm feeling a bit sorry for them. At least those stuck in are warm and dry.

V difficult conditions.
 
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