No turnout horse very unhappy

[nikkimariet]

Oh dear, well I have a Welsh D, will do anything for me usually, but after weeks of box rest he has become a PITA to handle on the way in/out to the field - which is a good 5 minute walk btw. I am a novice, should I hang my head in shame whilst all the 'proper' horsey people laugh at and berate me? Yes he scares me in these circumstances, so I will lead in a bridle, with gloves/hat/schooling whip, and will take lessons in groundwork! Not nice to be laughing at novices who are genuinely trying to do their best!

Excuse me? Where on earth am I laughing at novice owners? I was laughing at justabob and PS agreeing with each other, as they are notorious for disagreeing with each other!!!

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

This shouldn't be my fight since while a lot of people are moaning their horses are getting too sharp through lack of exercise it makes mine more forward and enjoyable to school, but I'll answer anyway…

Many full and part liveries get down to do their horses in the dark ruling out hacking so you're talking five nights schooling which, unless you're working at a pretty high level of training, isn't going to be genuine hard work for the majority of horses, especially as at least a couple of those nights its probably going to be hammering it down so a full hour's kind of ambitious IME.

What about retirees and resting horses? How can you "work them hard?" Why should you to their detriment?

What about novices, or not novices just average people, who are capable of managing their horses under normal circumstances but are massively over-horsed once horse gets shut in?

What about the yard staff who are left to manage people's horses who aren't down at night in the rain working their horses round the school until they're tired because they're busy, or aren't capable or just CBA, when they're way past boiling point?

i work a 9-5 job and teach freelance too. Im more often than not getting on in pitch black and piss pouring rain, after teaching or riding for someone else first and yet i somehow still manage it! NMT doesnt even get on board until 6.45 but she never "CBA" either.

dont buy a horse you can only handle under ideal conditions and buy a bike if you CBA as soon as the going gets tough!

I get your point Flame, but come on, we are in crisis in this country with the floods. If horses are in retirement they won't mind a few months off, novice owners with novice horses will come to no harm if left for a few weeks, crickey it is not life threatening. As for the liveries that can't be arsed, well, what can I say? I also think you over estimate the boiling point of horses owned by the above. If they own a horse that can not be managed without turnout, they should question their ability to own a horse in the first place. As I said this country is in crisis and whinging about turnout is turning my stomach,

concur

Oh dear, well I have a Welsh D, will do anything for me usually, but after weeks of box rest he has become a PITA to handle on the way in/out to the field - which is a good 5 minute walk btw. I am a novice, should I hang my head in shame whilst all the 'proper' horsey people laugh at and berate me? Yes he scares me in these circumstances, so I will lead in a bridle, with gloves/hat/schooling whip, and will take lessons in groundwork! Not nice to be laughing at novices who are genuinely trying to do their best!

Excuse me? Where on earth am I laughing at novice owners? I was laughing at justabob and PS agreeing with each other, as they are notorious for disagreeing with each other!!!

no one is laughing at you but you bought the horse so now im afraid you need to man up and get on top of this rude behaviour, and not make excuses or allowances.
and dont think i dont understand or dont get it, because i ride all sorts of very very difficult horses for people (this weekend ive had one nearly blind bolt in to a wire fence and one that actually managed to rodeo me off before my arse had even properly landed in the saddle!) and sometimes you have to bluff it-you might not want to deal with it and you might be thinking "ick i so dont want to do this" but you have to have that ability to pull your pants up and get on with it (or pay someone who can to do it instead).

 

[dianchi]

Well im quite happy with mine staying in! Infact I would like to see someone try and put her out- if you can get her to walk through the mud to a grassless field- crack on!

Nope my skinny pin can stay indoors, eat her hay, go on the walker for an hour and do an hours proper work each eve.
How do people think that "pros" produce most of their horses?!

 

[ihatework]

Well im quite happy with mine staying in! Infact I would like to see someone try and put her out- if you can get her to walk through the mud to a grassless field- crack on!

Nope my skinny pin can stay indoors, eat her hay, go on the walker for an hour and do an hours proper work each eve.
How do people think that "pros" produce most of their horses?!

Different people have different lives. Not everyone needs, wants or can keep their horses like a pro.
What if you worked 12 hours a day, couldn't ride your horse everyday, didn't have access to a walker and wanted a quiet hack for pleasure on the weekend?

There is no right or wrong way to keep a horse. But there are preferences.

 

[doriangrey]

There are some pretty high horses being clamboured on here It is my opinion that horses 'need' turnout to be able to fully relax and be themselves be it in a barn, a school, trash paddock whatever. Of course it isn't possible all the time due to weather, box rest etc. I feel for people who cannot turn their horses out at the moment or even ride because their yards/facilities and fields are flooded, these are exceptional circumstances for some people and I certainly wouldn't be calling them incompetent. However, I'm talking turnout here not work. How hard can you work your horse and for how long to justify say keeping it stabled for the rest of the time? Heck I can go to the gym and do a pretty tough workout for an hour but it doesn't knacker me for the rest of the day, how must it be for the horse who is born to run? I can understand how some horses are being extremely fresh because it isn't necessarily the work but the relaxation that's being missed, to be concerned that your horse isn't getting his relaxation makes for a good owner I think. All work and no play ....

 

[sandy3924]

There are some pretty high horses being clamboured on here It is my opinion that horses 'need' turnout to be able to fully relax and be themselves be it in a barn, a school, trash paddock whatever. Of course it isn't possible all the time due to weather, box rest etc. I feel for people who cannot turn their horses out at the moment or even ride because their yards/facilities and fields are flooded, these are exceptional circumstances for some people and I certainly wouldn't be calling them incompetent. However, I'm talking turnout here not work. How hard can you work your horse and for how long to justify say keeping it stabled for the rest of the time? Heck I can go to the gym and do a pretty tough workout for an hour but it doesn't knacker me for the rest of the day, how must it be for the horse who is born to run? I can understand how some horses are being extremely fresh because it isn't necessarily the work but the relaxation that's being missed, to be concerned that your horse isn't getting his relaxation makes for a good owner I think. All work and no play ....

Well said!

 

[criso]

I am one that wants as much turnout as possible for their horses, I won't consider individual turnout as I think it's good for horse to interact with other horse and always make these things a pre-requesite when I am looking for a yard...

but fields are closed for the first time in over 30 years, the situation at the moment is not normal so I am making the best of it.

I have 2 horses baby tb (5) and older retired tb (11). The retired one can't be ridden or go on the horsewalker due to an old injury so he gets walked up the drive to the main road a few times which is a nice long walk. However this is a private road with other houses on it and I wouldn't risk it after dark so can only do this if I get up when it's still light. He's a bit grumpy but behaving. We've done box rest together before so know the drill.

Younger one goes on the horsewalker every day gets ridden or lunged on the days I am up (probably 5 days a week). He struggles to concentrate at first but soon settles if ridden quietly but firmly forward. He also gets taken up and down the drive if the riding is not a hack as he's barefoot and it's good for his feet. He's also started this whole separation thing with the older one since they've been in so I want to nip this is in the bud and get baby tb off the yard and away from the other one as much as possible.

I am freelance so can be flexible to a point but still can't go up every day, if I am working in west london till 7pm I wouldn't get to the yard till gone 9 but days I work from home I am getting up early to work in the morning so I can get up to the yard while it's still light.

It may not be how I would choose to keep my horses under normal circumstances but these are not. There are people not far whose fields and stables are completely under water. Most yards in the area closed the fields alot sooner than where I am. It's easy to say you are continuing to turn out but unless you have seen the fields in question you can't comment on whether it is safe or suitable. There is heavy clay round here and a very saturated field could have a horse sinking into very dense mud that risks injury. You can also damage a field so much that the only solution is to completely reseed and start again in which case you might lose the field for the following year while it reestablishes.

There are yards that stop turning out at the first sign of mud and this happens every year but there are also yards that given the extreme circumstances have had to make a very tough decision this year.

I'm not going to go looking for another yard on the basis of something that happens every 30 years.

 

[Merrymoles]

I only ever get to my horse in the dark during the week at this time of year. We are lucky enough to have turnout but do not yet have a manege and the fields are too wet to ride or lunge in, even if we had lights.
If my horse were in 24/7 I would have no option but to lead round the yard in hand and that's it. I could not pay anyone to exercise as there is no access to the yard unless one of us is present (we all work full time) and I cannot be, otherwise I would ride myself. Therefore sticking him on the non-existent walker and an hour's hard work in the evening is not an option. Many of us can be ar$ed but just don't have the facilities to work our horses.
I love my yard and there is no way I would want to move just because of one bad winter.
I think circumstances are exceptional for many this year and I really feel for the OP who is getting to know a new horse.
I am obsessively watching the sunset times everyday and counting down to when I can hack out after work or (wet permitting) ride in the fields. Until then, he is on an enforced lay off and fortunately turned out from 6am - 6pm. I can only imagine how fed up we would both be if he was in 24/7.

 

[Always Henesy]

I think coping without turn out just really depends on the horse.

My TBXWB had 19 weeks in his stable - no in hand walking - nothing. He was recovering from a serious injury. Bless him - he was the same lovely laid back chap throughout. No bad manners, no marbles lost. Plenty of forage, a companion 24/7 (we rotated the ponies), a scratch from me twice a day & radio 2 was all he needed. This was the winter of 2010 when we had 16 inches of snow & temps of -19!

Some horses cope well without turnout - others do not.

It is a difficult one for the OP - I do sympathise.

 

[catroo]

I rent a yard & land so I can do what suits me and my ponies. Although on clay I'm lucky that I've set up the facilities so they have free access to my Winter field and the yard/stables. In bad weather they are shut in the yard overnight with stables open but during the day the gate to the field is open regardless of the weather.

I have five and do find it interesting to see what their preferences are in this weather. One of them will go out of for a bit of a run around, little graze etc but spend more time in the yard munching hay, two will be out of the gate like a shot and stay out regardless of rain, sleet, snow and not come in until tea time (I don't hay in the field but adlib in the yard) . Two of them will not go out at all, from how dry they are it looks like they never leave their stables!

I'm very lucky (but do work long hours to pay for it) in that my boys have a choice. Some are happy to stay in, some are not and a livery yard has a hard job pleasing everyone.

 

[Flame_]

What about the yard staff who are left to manage people's horses who aren't down at night in the rain working their horses round the school until they're tired because they're busy, or aren't capable or just CBA, when they're way past boiling point?

i work a 9-5 job and teach freelance too. Im more often than not getting on in pitch black and piss pouring rain, after teaching or riding for someone else first and yet i somehow still manage it! NMT doesnt even get on board until 6.45 but she never "CBA" either.

dont buy a horse you can only handle under ideal conditions and buy a bike if you CBA as soon as the going gets tough!

Are you deliberately missing the point here.

What about the yard staff?

(Most!) People do own horses they can't or have no intention of working like a pro every day in the winter (leisure horses?!). Should people not buy leisure horses? What are the yard staff supposed to do with them when they're doing their nuts in? I don't think explosions are "rudeness" as you put it anyway, they're usually reactions to too much stress or energy.

We've seen photos of what sort of behaviour you are prepared to work with from horses and your ability and guts may be admirable but other people would prefer to accept their limitations, put horses in fields for that sort of stuff and keep their necks safe. I don't agree that all the people that fall into this category shouldn't have horses or should have to pay pros to work them on top of their livery.

 

[RunToEarth]

We've seen photos of what sort of behaviour you are prepared to work with from horses and your ability and guts may be admirable but other people would prefer to accept their limitations, put horses in fields for that sort of stuff and keep their necks safe. I don't agree that all the people that fall into this category shouldn't have horses or should have to pay pros to work them on top of their livery.

But lots of yards who have never shut fields before have had to shut fields because it is just so wet. In that situation, your options are either to ride it, pay someone else to ride it or find somewhere to turn it out. If you are at a livery yard, to a point you have to accept their management and adapt your management to reflect that. I would prefer not to have to get on mine when they are as high as a kite but at the moment I don't have a huge choice.

 

[ester]

T
Many full and part liveries get down to do their horses in the dark ruling out hacking so you're talking five nights schooling which, unless you're working at a pretty high level of training, isn't going to be genuine hard work for the majority of horses, especially as at least a couple of those nights its probably going to be hammering it down so a full hour's kind of ambitious IME.

What about retirees and resting horses? How can you "work them hard?" Why should you to their detriment?

I think this is quite an important point, there are horses for whom consecutive days of school riding would not be beneficial or could be detrimental, particularly if you are restricted to a 20x40. Also the OP's arena sounded pretty darn wet and not a surface you would want to currently be doing lots of work on.

 

[delaneys]

I think getting on to ride is a lot safer than letting a fresh horse loose in the arena. Work them hard and get there backs down. I had to canter for 45 mins round the school the other day, the horse was so fresh I would of been hurt lunging or leading! Luckily he was ok after being chased by a stray ginsters pasty wrapper!

 

[Holly Hocks]

i work a 9-5 job and teach freelance too. Im more often than not getting on in pitch black and piss pouring rain, after teaching or riding for someone else first and yet i somehow still manage it! NMT doesnt even get on board until 6.45 but she never "CBA" either.

dont buy a horse you can only handle under ideal conditions and buy a bike if you CBA as soon as the going gets tough!



concur







no one is laughing at you but you bought the horse so now im afraid you need to man up and get on top of this rude behaviour, and not make excuses or allowances.
and dont think i dont understand or dont get it, because i ride all sorts of very very difficult horses for people (this weekend ive had one nearly blind bolt in to a wire fence and one that actually managed to rodeo me off before my arse had even properly landed in the saddle!) and sometimes you have to bluff it-you might not want to deal with it and you might be thinking "ick i so dont want to do this" but you have to have that ability to pull your pants up and get on with it (or pay someone who can to do it instead).

So that's it everyone - don't buy a horse unless you're as good a rider as PS!

 

[Flosii]

Interesting response here.

However I was not looking for someone to give me a here this is what you should do and stick to it, just having a vent and looking for suggestions.

I know that I am not the only one in this position, and I am fully aware that there are alot of people that are worse off than me.

However, at the point of writing my original post I was mearly upset and frustrated.

For those that are remotly interested I managed to get him turned loose in a small pen that he had a little bit of a buck and jump around in and rode him out yesterday and he was back to normal chilled self. (It was noted by another person at the yard how Highly strung he was,) but once got a little more room he was a bit happier.

I hope that walking in hand, being led from another and riding in evening (if electrics and school are upto it) he will be back. At the end of last week I was just very very scard that being in had blown his mind. For thoses suggesting using it as practise for box rest, this would be a completely different circumstance, and I can not completely say I would manage it differently because I dont know what the circumstance may be, but I would most likely handle it differently.

Thank you for those that gave helful advice, and I hope that after the weather over the weekend you are all safe.

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

So that's it everyone - don't buy a horse unless you're as good a rider as PS!

no. dont buy a horse unless you are a good enough rider to ride THAT horse in less than ideal circumstances.

and yard staff are paid to deal with the horses. if the owner does not dare, or cannot, get on and work it-pay the yard staff to do that too.
how hard is this?!

if you have a horse that cannot work in the school then surely the options are:
1. do nothng, but dont whine about resulting hyper horse.
2.move yards to somewhere it can go in a field
3.pay someone to hack it.

there is zero point going on and on about needing turnout if you cannot provide it. work with the alternatives.

 

[ester]

Yard staff? Who are they!?

Glad his little buck etc seems to have helped OP.

 

[RunToEarth]

Yard staff? Who are they!?

Alright, so theoretically - what would you do? The yard owner has closed grazing and won't allow you to turn out in the arena, you work 9-5 and your horse isn't coping well with being in and you don't want to get on it.

Because to me the only options left are either paying someone else to ride it, or finding somewhere with facilities to move it to. This weather is difficult to work with when you have horses, but it's just what happens when you keep horses in the UK!

 

[monkeybum13]

to all of you saying/complaiing about not being able to lunge or loose school-imagine 10/15/20 horses ALL going ballistic on a daily basis-sure fire way to trash the arena and thats going to be tens of thousands to sort, are you all happy to stump up a few thousand towards it? and no doubt you would all complain if a horse damaged the membrane and then you couldnt ride whilst it was fixed..............

i dont allow any loose schooling at all,or lunging of over fresh horses as it just trashed the surface. I am lucky to have sandy soil and well drained paddocks but i still wouldnt sacrifice the arena for turnout if they were all in.

get on board and work them HARD every day, i wouldnt even try and hand walk etc.

I agree, turning out on arenas can do so much damage!

This weather is extreme, we just have to grit out teeth and get on with it I'm afraid.

 

[monkeybum13]

So that's it everyone - don't buy a horse unless you're as good a rider as PS!

Sorry, what? I can't see anywhere where PS has said you need to be as good as her (god help us if we did!), just that if you want horses you need to put the effort in when the going gets tough.

There are people who have had their livelihoods, homes, land wrecked due to the weather and people are moaning about a lack of turnout for a few weeks? Good grief!

 

[ester]

Alright, so theoretically - what would you do? The yard owner has closed grazing and won't allow you to turn out in the arena, you work 9-5 and your horse isn't coping well with being in and you don't want to get on it.

Because to me the only options left are either paying someone else to ride it, or finding somewhere with facilities to move it to. This weather is difficult to work with when you have horses, but it's just what happens when you keep horses in the UK!

Honestly? I don't think I'd be there/in that situation in the first place. The large quantity of well draining grazing being part of my decision making for being where I am. I also have a pony that would be ok with it/wouldn't ever do anything that would unnerve me. Maybe that's sensible or just lucky? I also know him very well which helps.

What would I do if I were in the situ where I was unnerved/horse not coping etc I would either move somewhere with different facilities and if that couldn't be done pay someone to ride/hack for me in the meantime. I just didn't think it fair to presume that all yards have on site easily available staff to do this for you (as opposed to finding someone competent and properly insured and happy to come freelance)

 

[_Annie_]

Having seen the state of the geldings' field at our yard, I'm thanking my lucky stars my girl is one of only two mares here! She still has daily turnout, from 8 til 3 most days, earlier as her field mate comes in at 1pm some days. There's even grass left!

The boys on the other hand are being turned out on the school as not only is their field utterly trashed, mud fever is doing the rounds and I guess it's just easier.

The school has suffered for it, but it wasn't great to begin with and nobody here would rather the lads had no turnout at all :-/

 

[Pigeon]

My Pip is on box rest at the moment, he doesn't seem to mind that much but it's driving me crazy! To be brutally honest, turnout would be at the top of my priorities at a yard, even if it was just an hour a day, and if this was likely to be a regular occurrence (and let's face it, the weather is unlikely to improve for the next couple of months) I would be looking to move. It's worth baring in mind that you are paying for the turnout - there are yards near us with very limited turnout, but this is reflected in the price.

 

[be positive]

My Pip is on box rest at the moment, he doesn't seem to mind that much but it's driving me crazy! To be brutally honest, turnout would be at the top of my priorities at a yard, even if it was just an hour a day, and if this was likely to be a regular occurrence (and let's face it, the weather is unlikely to improve for the next couple of months) I would be looking to move. It's worth baring in mind that you are paying for the turnout - there are yards near us with very limited turnout, but this is reflected in the price.

I am turning out but restricting as we are on clay, I will not sacrifice my school if it gets destroyed there is not enough money available to put it right unlike the fields which will recover with less expenditure but I am lucky I have no DIY liveries so turn out and bring in to suit and exercise to keep them settled. The little I would get from DIY's would never pay to put right the damage if they insisted on daily turnout from dawn to dusk, they may be paying for turnout but with this weather continuing many yards may decide to stop doing cheap livery as the figures will not add up, a yard near me has just given up doing DIY for this reason, if all weather turnouts need to be provided someone has to pay and at the average of around £120 per month for DIY the YO's may need to increase costs significantly in order to cover the extra costs involved, owners may have to start paying a more realistic rate.

 

[putasocinit]

wish i paid £120, more like £250 DIY excluding hay and bedding, and no free bale of hay because i cant turn out and there we go again another post which knocks the DIY'er,

 

[be positive]

wish i paid £120, more like £250 DIY excluding hay and bedding, and no free bale of hay because i cant turn out and there we go again another post which knocks the DIY'er,

That is expensive and I would expect to have turnout all year for that price, if I could fill my boxes with DIY's prepared to pay that I would be happy, offer free assistance and let them turnout knowing that the costs of putting the fields right are well covered but not many people would pay that for the use of a box, field and arena, the local yard that has stopped doing DIY was only getting £100 per month and it was not worth it, if they had doubled the price the liveries would have looked elsewhere.

 

[Lizzie66]

Most livery charges have very little profit margin in them and with the fields so wet you can't blame YO not wanting horses turned out on them. If you are maoning now about lack of turnout just imagine how much you will moan come spring when there is no grass and you have to supplement it with hay !
Then you'll be expecting YO to provide it foc or you will move to somewhere with grass.
If we had a winter like the other year where it was -10 and everthing was solid ice would you still be wanting to turnout ?

 

[putasocinit]

Lizzie66, i have turn out in an aw school and i am supplementing with nhay, and i have good doers so happy to have limited grass in summer. I also have first hand experience on how to sort out a trashed field, rolling,harrowing, throwing some seed down, it really isnt that big a job, i am thinking more of those that cannot turn out at.

I am referring to what i pay in livery as to the comment that diyers want it cheap, no we dont, we want to be able to do our horses ourselves, and some will pay the higher price tag for that, but i do expect to be treated with a bit of respect because of the amount i pay and yes i more than anyone else respects your property, and will repeair what is broke, but today was an example of my frustration, we could turn out today so mine went in to the boggyest 1/3 acre with no grass, whilst the other livery who only pays £100 went to the top field which is dry and is about 1/2 acre and why was that because he got turned out with yms welsh a pony. So dont talk about the colour of money, talk about if your face fits. Oh the other liverys horse has trashed the fences already that is why its going out with yms welsh pony, it ran around this morning doing somersaults, whilst mine had their head down grazing, whose trashing whose field......signing out, rant over sorry just get annoyed

 

[Fun Times]

What has struck me most about this thread is the amount of somewhat sanctimonious people who seem so keen to point out their amazing horse skills and berate those who are struggling with horses that are demonstrating high spirits or frustration at being confined. To the first group, congratulations, you are truly awesome but alas not every horse in the country can be owned by you. To the second group, you have my sympathy as must be very difficult to deal with no or limited turnout.