No winter turnout??

[Cluck]

Oh I hear you on dry lots being very un-British

I have very un-fond British memories of my horse wading through 8 inches of mud all winter. It was hell and I hated it. But he did get turnout which kept him rideable.

I didn't realise that planning permission was necessary for something as simple as a small dry lot! Ridunckulous really

 

[Equestrianfriends]

I rented a field last year for my (then) colt and turned him out with my gelding.

I saw very little benefit in the arrangement to be honest, both of them wet and muddy most of the time, despite rugs. I still had to feed hay in the field and actually had to feed more than usual to keep them warm. And they were always glad to come in at night

None of my horses have ever shown 'stereotypical' behaviour despite their limited turnout through the winter whilst we've been on this yard.
So this year I will not keep on the field that I rented last year.
I will once again turn them out in one of our arenas either indoors or out depending on the weather so that they can socialise and stretch their legs.

You can keep your mud rash, your wet, muddy rugs that won't dry out and churned up fields.

And for those who's horses 'go mental' when cooped up in stables, I suggest that you look at what you're feeding them. A little less hard feed and more fibre may help matters.

And Enfys : My horse are not kept at livery As a family we rent stables etc. and look after the horses ourselves. Or are you suggesting that unless you have your own yard you should not keep horses?

I agree with you on this with some of the comments they are coming out with make me feel like they say people who keep there horses in in the winter are bad owners. My horses are my life and i love them dearly I am on a wonderful yard with amazing facilities and we have a turn out pen with a surface if needed, the horses are put on the walker twice a day, we have and indoor and outdoor to and my horse will be exercsied everyday, we have summer turnout but i have him out at night and in in the day, winter they are stabled 24/7 now the last yard i was at we had turnout but the school was awful the surface was deep and horrid , so i moved to a beautiful yard with outdoor and indoor arenas with amazing surfaces, turnout pen with a surface, horse walker,solarium,hot and cold wash box. Its everything i need there as i compete at high level. As you say aswell stabled horses if exercised and fed a correct diet they will be fine. At the old yard last winter it was awful horses out in the wet not much grass shoes flying off lol wet muddy rugs yuk, and i was always worrying my horse would pull a tendon or injure himself by running around in the wet.

 

[Enfys]

I

And Enfys : Or are you suggesting that unless you have your own yard you should not keep horses?

Oh you have got your knickers in a twist haven't you?

I meant nothing of the kind, don't be so daft - I own a Boarding Farm (and most of my Boarders choose to have their horses living out all year round by the way)

Where did I say that? I just wouldn't have horses if I had to keep them somewhere else, I don't want to, I am fortunate that I don't have to, that's all, what's wrong with that? Anyway, finding a yard to take the horses I have would be well nigh impossible.

Everybody does things differently and they are entitled to do what suits them, you asked a question and I merely answered it.

I didn't realise that you were looking for my take on your opinion.

 

[Enfys]

I didn't realise that planning permission was necessary for something as simple as a small dry lot! Ridunckulous really

Don't take my word on that, but I know plenty that there are plenty of 'jobsworths' who'd report that sort of thing.

Horse keeping (and the way of thinking) in NA is vastly different in some ways isn't it?

 

[GingerCat]

Oh you have got your knickers in a twist haven't you?

Knickers in a twist?...my whole wardrobe is spinning!

This whole thread seems aimed at making people who don't have the luxury of manicured winter turnout feel as though they are cruel owners who don't have their horses' best interests at heart. Utter tosh!
And judging by the contents of my inbox I'm not the only one feelng this.

 

[Equestrianfriends]

Knickers in a twist?...my whole wardrobe is spinning!

This whole thread seems aimed at making people who don't have the luxury of manicured winter turnout feel as though they are cruel owners who don't have their horses' best interests at heart. Utter tosh!
And judging by the contents of my inbox I'm not the only one feelng this.

well said!

 

[Wagtail]

Would have to say that last year after a neighbouring yard had 3 horses PTS because they broke legs in the snow

That is how my old mare ended up a field ornament. I caved in from pressure from one of my liveries to let them out in the snow. They always go out in the all weather in the snow, but not their fields. I began to think I was being too precious as she pointed out that all these other horses were out in it, and so I gave in to the pressure. Never again! My mare broke her shoulder doing the splits in the field and permanently wrecked her biceps braccus tendon. She is lucky to even be alive.

The year before that, my sister lost her horse when he broke his leg hooning about the field in the mud and slipped. Four years before that I lost a horse when he broke his hock when he twisted awkwardly due to deep mud next to the field gate trying to escape the field bully. The same year my friend lost her newly backed 3 year old event prospect when he slipped in mud trying to stop in time and broke his neck on the gate post.

My horses do not go out in mud or on ice and snow, not because I don't want my fields trashing, but because it is a risk I am no longer prepared to take.

 

[Cluck]

Don't take my word on that, but I know plenty that there are plenty of 'jobsworths' who'd report that sort of thing.

Horse keeping (and the way of thinking) in NA is vastly different in some ways isn't it?

Oh my yes it is Horses are largely treated as livestock here, they are not a luxury and every redneck seems to keep one or two in their backyards I have found that attitude SO incredibly difficult to deal with. Being a mouthy Brit who says it as it is has not helped me during my 10 years of livery!

Think of a little 5'3" woman having shouting matches with a 6'4" crazy hick farmer man The incidents are just too numerous to mention but I was literally reduced to visiting my horses (on full livery) every day to make sure that they had clean water and hay, and to muck out their stables (properly).

On the other hand, land is cheap and as long as it is zoned agricultural, you can do what you like with it. Now I have some of my own it's bliss! The Midwest is one of the hay-making states so I never find it hard to find top quality grass hay here.

The 'barefoot/natural horse keeping' movement is really taking off and, apart from the fanatics, that has been a good thing for me and my horses. I have learned so much about keeping horses as horses and they are happier, healthier and sounder for it.

It is interesting to compare horse issues. 99% of it is all the same though

 

[Dancing Queen]

My horses do not go out in mud or on ice and snow, not because I don't want my fields trashing, but because it is a risk I am no longer prepared to take.

My horses dont go out on ice or snow, im lucky that our field doesnt get muddy at all. im sorry to hear about all those accidents. x

 

[Wagtail]

If we get a dry spell during the winter, the horses go back out on the grass, but they seem very happy in the sand turnout as it is large enough for them to hoon about and they have haynets tied up all around it. I have to poo pick and rake up dropped haylage 3 times a day to keep it nice though so it's hard work!

 

[HollyWoozle]

For me personally the idea of stabling a horse 24/7 is horrific. I know some people don't have choices or that there are exceptions, but I do feel that it's cruel in most cases.

Ours live out 24/7, all year round, on our own land (I appreciate that we're very fortunate). There are 2 large horses and 2 ponies on about 3 acres - sometimes it is extremely muddy, sometimes rutted and icy, sometimes a dust bowl, but we have never had any problems with injury due to the ground (touch wood!) or problems such as mud fever. A loan horse came to us with breathing issues from being stabled and of course it cleared up straight away when she was out all the time. Our vet also agrees that this is the best way for horses to live.

We have stables which are left open all the time as optional shelter for the horses. This also means that they can get onto the concrete out of the mud or wet when they like and that we have the stables there in case of injury or a need to keep one in. Noah was recently on box rest for a month and we found it very upsetting to have to keep him in all that time. Our field often gets wrecked in the winter but every year it comes back with minimal management. When the grass is poor, we up the hay and hard feed if necessary.

For me this is the ideal way to keep horses. As I said, I appreciate that there are exceptions where some horses need stabling for whatever reason, but I wouldn't choose it for my horses when avoidable.

 

[topclass]

Cant belive so many of you dont have winter turnout for your babies

If you dont ofter turnout then you get unhappy horses and even more unhappy owners im lucky I have tons of land and seperate fields for summer and winter so if the winter ones get trashed so be it, it'll be rolled and chain harrowed in spring ready for winter again no big deal, Id rather have a happy horse that one that's miserable and as alwasy it is up to the individual horse owner to turnout or not I offer the option and mine are out 99% of the time except in ice conditions, heavy rain, health and safety is paramount when ice is concerned but luckily mine arent bothered about racing around just having a roll and then finding some grass they go out at 9am and are in at 3pm to a nice big warm bed, haylage and a tea and tucked up all snug for the night and then out again in the morning and they are happy and so am I

 

[Ranyhyn]

I hate horses being in too, but its very easy to condemn yards for over population and bad management, and unless you have run a yard you can't really comment. Its also easy to say that fields wouldn't churn up when you are on good draining soil - if you are on clay, like us, you are basically living in the bottom of a big pond! Its also easy to say that gates and fields should have hardcore/concrete paths - try getting it past the planning dept round here...

Agreed. We have 25 acres and two horses - not overpopulated by any measure. They will still kill a lot of the land come winter time - because it's so much more to do with what land you have - than how many horses etc. We manage the land here to the very best of our ability but horses ruin imperfect land and if you want perfect land - you better be prepared to pay for it

 

[cbmcts]

So if you couldn't find a yard that didn't offer turnout, you wouldn't keep horses then?

I'm in exactly that position - I have 2 retired horses that I have sent to the next county on retirement livery so they could have 24/7 safe turnout. I also decided not to buy another horse to ride because there are no yards in this area that will guarantee even limited winter turnout. Most will lie to you and say there is though. So, not being sanctimonious I decided that after nearly 35 years of being a hands on horse owner that if I couldn't keep them that I consider the bare minimum of welfare that I wouldn't have a riding horse. In saying that, I have huge admiration for the people who put the work and effort into making a situation like that work - I just don't have the time and energy to do it.
The one grass livery yard in this area (I was on it for over 10 years) is now so overcrowded (and under new management) that they regularly start the winter with 30 horses on 12 acres...by Christmas it's normally down to half that number with at least 2 PTS because of injury and the rest having moved on.

But surely, if you were considering buying a horse do you not look in to what yards are available in your area first and what facilities they had? Surely you would, it'd be very stupid to buy a horse and not know where you're intending on keeping it first?!

Some YOs lie... or to be charitable their definition of turnout is very different to yours

I wouldn't buy a horse if their was nowhere near me where I could keep it and it be allowed T/O. I'd look at other options if all livery yards were that cr*p - like approaching farmers and other landowners with the possibility of renting someland myself!

In crowded parts of the SE that isn't always easy especially if you are a one horse owner or have to commute long distances to work

However, I still don't get why anyone would open a livery yard of that was going to be their policy. I don't see how anyone can feel it's acceptable. mind you, I guess some people just see a horse as a machine or commodity and don't see it as a living, breathing animal!

It really depends on whether you consider turnout to be essential or not - a lot of people are so used to not TO and there are are horses who appear to manage fine without it - that it has become the new norm. Not for me but then there are a lot things I do that would be considered very 'old fashioned' and I also have to take into account that I work full time with a horrendous commute (which is only going to get worse in the run up to the Olympics!) and cannot physically devote the time and energy to make a no TO situation bearable for the average horse.

 

[Piglet]

I would never consider a yard with no turn out in the winter, the yard I am I am in now is not my ideal yard, but it has more good points than bad and one of those is winter turnout during the day or 24/7 if preferred. Sure the fields get muddy but horses are happy and the fields soon recover.

 

[ofcourseyoucan]

well my liveries get turnout every day. elderly, infirm and pathetic horses come in early if they are hanging around. yes hay/haylage put out in fields every day. horses are kept happy! owners still moan about the mud! all gateways are hardcored so hard standing. also have a walker and a floodlight school if owners dont want tunout (???????????!!) the land recovers in spring with a bit of tlc, seed and fert. but you cant keep all hapy all of the time!

 

[ofcourseyoucan]

sadly liveries think grass grows for free!!! it takes a lot of time and money to manage the land, to reseed/topseed , rest, fertilise, spray etc. Giving winter turnout does increase land management costs considerably.

 

[Wagtail]

It's strange, but I have never once had someone decide not to come here after coming to see the yard. They know they will not have grass turnout during the worst of the winter, although we do get the horses out 365 days a year using the sand turnout. Not one person has seemed unhappy with this arrangement. But I only have full or part livery, so maybe that's the difference?

 

[millitiger]

It's strange, but I have never once had someone decide not to come here after coming to see the yard. They know they will not have grass turnout during the worst of the winter, although we do get the horses out 365 days a year using the sand turnout. Not one person has seemed unhappy with this arrangement. But I only have full or part livery, so maybe that's the difference?

I am on full livery and wouldn't be happy with that arrangement so I don't think it is to do with part/full livery.

I think it may be that people in your area know you don't have field turnout in winter and therefore some people don't even enquire about livery in the first place- when I was looking for a new yard I discounted a number of yards without even calling as I knew they did not match my 'wish list.'

A number of people on our yard (all full liveries) do not turn out in very wet weather or snow but equally there are a number of us who have requested our horses go out all day, every day and the YO is happy to oblige.

 

[AmyMay]

No winter turnout for my horses means no business from me I'm afraid.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

It's strange, but I have never once had someone decide not to come here after coming to see the yard.

can I be the first to decide not to come to your yard because you have no winter turnout ?
?

sadly liveries think grass grows for free!!! it takes a lot of time and money to manage the land, to reseed/topseed , rest, fertilize, spray etc. Giving winter turnout does increase land management costs considerably.

5^ to this don't forget harrowing as well ,this is why we don't put hay out . we spend £ 1000 at least on field maintenance. if how ever its a hot summer no grass , i have had liveries say are you going to put hay out. I say no sorry its cheaper for us to give you hay through the summer than pay for good grazing etc. This was only 1 person nobody else complains.

 

[paddy]

We're in the South East although we're lucky as we're on sandy soil and have more acres than horses. Even so, my heart sinks when I see the state of our fields over the winter - I'd love them to be beautiful, manicured.... Instead, they have happy horses in them. Only time OH keeps them in is if the owner has asked for them to be in or it's dangerous for them to go out. Which last year roughly translated as a few days in due to ice.

Once the fields are fertilised, rolled, harrowed, topped etc, it all starts over again.

Couldn't stand having horses in all the time though. A few yards around here offer all year round turnout but it is not every day and it's often only for a few hours. To me, horses are designed to go out. However, some clients could perhaps be a little more realistic and realise that grass doesn't grow over the winter!

 

[touchstone]

I think that I'm fortunate in renting my own land, I have a stable which opens directly on to the paddock so over the summer months I use a track system around the perimeter of the field. This increases exercise and restricts intake of grass for fatties/laminitics. The grass in the middle is browsed by sheep and an elderly tb that manages more grass with no problems. Then it is rested over the Autumn and gradually strip grazed over the winter months until the whole of the field is being grazed. Once Spring arrives the track system is back up and running.

Because the horses have free access to their stables they can go in and out as they choose, so there is rarely any hoolying around after being turned out so the risk of injuries is reduced.

It works well for me anyway!

 

[ISHmad]

No winter turnout is a no no for me. We are fortunate to get year round 24/7 turnout where we are. I appreciate winter turnout isn't available for everyone but to me that isn't something I would compromise on for my horses.

 

[Wagtail]

I am on full livery and wouldn't be happy with that arrangement so I don't think it is to do with part/full livery.

I think it may be that people in your area know you don't have field turnout in winter and therefore some people don't even enquire about livery in the first place- when I was looking for a new yard I discounted a number of yards without even calling as I knew they did not match my 'wish list.'

A number of people on our yard (all full liveries) do not turn out in very wet weather or snow but equally there are a number of us who have requested our horses go out all day, every day and the YO is happy to oblige.

This is what I don't understand. The point is I DO have winter turnout. In fact last year we were the only yard in the area that turned out every single day during the really bad weather. My farrier told me. The reason being the all weather turnout is only yards from the stables and the walk way is therefore easy to keep gritted and clear of snow and ice. The yards keeping their horses in were those boasting all year turnout but the weather beat them because it was too dangerous to lead the horses to the fields. Ours on the other hand were out for at least four hours every day. They have ad lib quality haylage during that time and can hoon about on a safe all weather surface. Why would anyone want them to go out in the fields when it is frozen solid and dangerous?

 

[Wagtail]

Having spent most of my horsey life turning out all year round in the field, I can honestly say that my horses are happier with the all weather turnout than they were in the fields. When they were in the fields, they suffered from mud fever, would huddle in the gateways wanting to come in and would be generally excitable to handle at bringing in time. Now they never stand waiting to come in, and when I do fetch them in they are patient and orderly. They are completely chilled and good tempered. I would never go back to turning out in the fields during the worst of the weather.

 

[AmyMay]

This is what I don't understand. The point is I DO have winter turnout. In fact last year we were the only yard in the area that turned out every single day during the really bad weather. My farrier told me. The reason being the all weather turnout is only yards from the stables and the walk way is therefore easy to keep gritted and clear of snow and ice. The yards keeping their horses in were those boasting all year turnout but the weather beat them because it was too dangerous to lead the horses to the fields. Ours on the other hand were out for at least four hours every day. They have ad lib quality haylage during that time and can hoon about on a safe all weather surface. Why would anyone want them to go out in the fields when it is frozen solid and dangerous?

I think you are confused. All year turnout means we expect our horses to be turned out on grass.

As for yards not being able to turnout because of bad weather - well we would all except that there may be the odd day when snow or ice makes things difficult. And I certainly don't have a problem with keeping a horse in for a few days whilst there is a thaw.

The weather in this country is essentially warm and wet - last year was an exeption.

The only legitimate reason for not offering year round turnout is overstocked land, imo. We've established that you don't have enough land to offer year round turnout - and you won't be alone in this problem.

 

[MagicMelon]

I would see it as completely unacceptable. If you can't turn out in winter because it ruins the fields then you haven't got enough grazing for the number of horses on your yard. Fair enough if the horse in question suffers from raging mud fever and the fields are under a foot of water but as a general rule I think its cruel. .

Ditto. Mine live out 24/7 on grass, but they have a hardcored area by the stables which are left open so they can come and go as they please. Perfect IMO. I also have a thin skinned TB type who I clip and compete most of the winter too - the rugs nowadays are super cosy. Yes, the fields get frozen solid or covered in snow frequently (I'm NE Scotland) but so what? Horses should be used to that sort of thing! Mine have always been very careful when the ground is frozen - they're not stupid, they dont gallop about. I think people need to give their horses a bit more credit and quit wrapping them in cotton wool.

What I dont understand is that most of you would never consider keeping your dog in say, a small dog crate (relative to its size) for the majority of the time or even solidly for months at a time so why on earth do you feel its ok to do this to your horse who is designed to graze and be a herd animal? Its a stupid tradition which is long outdated, too many people ask why they should be turning out - the question should be why they are stabling!

 

[Wagtail]

I think you are confused. All year turnout means we expect our horses to be turned out on grass.

As for yards not being able to turnout because of bad weather - well we would all except that there may be the odd day when snow or ice makes things difficult. And I certainly don't have a problem with keeping a horse in for a few days whilst there is a thaw.

The weather in this country is essentially swarm and wet - last year was an exeption.

The only legitimate reason for not offering year round turnout is overstocked land, imo. We've established that you don't have enough land to offer year round turnout - and you won't be alone in this problem.

Whe I first moved here I had only two horses on the 7 acres. It was still far too dangerous and they poached it up terribly. We have now bought the neighbouring 11 acres so have a total of 8 horses on 18 acres. They will still not be going out when I feel the fields are too muddy or icy. It is a safety issue for me. Nothing to do with the amount of land or keeping the land nice.

Grass is not very nutritional during the winter. IME horses will always eat good quality haylage if it is put out in the winter in the fields. I really don't see why the turnout has to be grass. So long as the horses have a safe area to play and good forage, then surely that is better than standing in muddy fields? In many other countries, horses are kept in sand paddocks as the climate does not support lush grazing. The horses seem just as happy. I think horses look thoroughly miserable in some of the mud pits yards pass off as winter turnout.

If I lived in an area that was sandier and had 3 or more acres per horse, plus adequate shelter, then yes, I would probably turn out on it all year round. It would save me a lot of money and effort! However, people are being unrealistic to expect to be on a yard where they pay for DIY and get this. If they are lucky enough to have it, then they are very lucky indeed.

I think that horses need all year round turnout, but that it does not need to be on grass. In fact, I would always prefer to have my horses on an all weather turnout during bad weather by choice.

 

[AmyMay]

That's great that you've now got more land.

I understand the safety issue. But sometimes we can wrap them up just a little too much in cotton wool. These are animals after all.

I can say, hand on heart, that I've never seen a problem with horses, winter turnout and injuries because of it.

Managed well, it's just as productive as summer turnout.

We have no arguments, no standing by the gates, or sillyness comming in.

But of course, at the end of the day it's personal preference. And yes, your horses do get out every day, somewhere. Which is always better than standing in a stable.