No wonder we go abroad for horses

just paint the white bits brown or black and you'll be OK (or paint the brown/black bits white)

hope it wasn't produced like these though for your long term happiness and your horse's wellbeing
 
Most of these foriegn import horses are bought as fashion accessories by people who are more concerned about their image rather than the welfare of the horses.
 
Ok.. i have worked with dressage horses.. most were imported and sound, fit healthy and leading long lives..
Britians biggest issue as that they geld anything half decent because most of us are terrified at the prospect of riding a 17hh fit, stallion.

ANother issue we have it that we breed from mares of second best quality. We breed from mares becaus ethey have sentimental value and can nolonger work due to lameness.. so lets breed from them! KABAM... rubbish conformation / sooundness issues. (obviously not all cases)

If we gelded less and they were put to decent mares.. people may begin to get interested.
 
Whilst I agree that the horses are doing too much too young, aren't these the kind of horses that the European riders buy and compete?

As in, Germany consistantly do much better than us in SJ/Dressage - is this not at least partly down to horse power? They must be doing something right.

I don't know much about it though so if I'm wrong I'm happy to be corrected.
 
Not nuts at all, but as you have said people have forgotten about the CB when it comes to breeding & that is probably because we dont promot the ones that are doing well. If all we hear about is WB's and how our UK teams are made up of mainly WB's then that is what is getting put into peoples minds. I dont see it changing as I said nothing has change in 20 odd years, if anything it has got worse.
 
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the huge support and advertising on the continent for youngstock sales, the (EU) funding used to build superbreeding yards

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And this is a good thing? Why?

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the tie-in between producers and competitors and young riders

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Is this not happening where you live? It certainly went on where I lived in the south of England - good riders were offered good horses to produce/compete.
 
Now this post I completely agree with!! You have put into words exactly what I think.
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just paint the white bits brown or black and you'll be OK (or paint the brown/black bits white)

hope it wasn't produced like these though for your long term happiness and your horse's wellbeing

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oo no I love his silly colour, it adds to his complete clown personality! I'm pretty sure he wasn't produced like those, although I do think he was brought on slightly too quickly for my liking, so we're going at a nice steady pace to build up his muscles and let him enjoy himself, not overloading his tiny baby brain
 
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the huge support and advertising on the continent for youngstock sales, the (EU) funding used to build superbreeding yards

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And this is a good thing? Why?


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I don't know if it is a good thing, I just know it happens and releases vast numbers of reasonably well bred horses into the market where a client can pick and choose from 100 horses. No wonder people go there, or buy in whole lorry loads of horses, it couldn't be easier. We either do something similar and beat them at their own game..or promote and devolop our own horses as being at least as good, or better, within a reasonable price range to compete
 
And I think you have totally hit the nail on the head here. People buy in trucks loads of these horses because they are very cheap - most are half the price of a British horse if bought from source and are still much cheaper when bought from a British dealer. The moment they arrive in the UK, the price is doubled.....even then, people still see these horses as cheap.

In Europe they produce thousands of horses, ALL with the same stallion lines; this appears to make people in England think they have a fantastic horse because somewhere down the line they see a top name that they recognise. When infact, very often all they have is a very run-of-the-mill horse. However they are perfectly happy to pay their £4,000 and live the rest of their lives believing they have a world-beater. The mark-up on these imports very often run at about 100%......but they don't care about that as it still seems like a bargain to many.

The English market cannot compete because the English market cannot produce horses for this low price. England doesn't have the available space to be breeding these thousands of horses every year because we still have ethics! We still want our horses to know what grass is - to see the sky - and to breathe fresh air. That's the compromise as far as I am concerned.......who's willing to make that compromise?
 
I have to agree with you Tia, give me one of these any day
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A lovely ID baby, who plays in a field till hes three, goes through and "ugly duckling" stage about 2 or 3 and doesnt full mature till hes 8.

The plus point???

All going well he should still be full of it at 20
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Are all horses produced this way in Europe? I am starting to feel really bad about having bought one now. The thing is though, I had no idea that he was a kind of battery horse. I just got him because he was big, looked handsome and I felt safe on him. I definitely didn't get him as a fashion accessory since I don't do fashion. I also wasn't impressed by his breeding even though his sire is an Olympic puissance winner because I don't follow or participate in any equine sport.

If European horses are treated badly I wish someone had told me sooner.
 
yes - you can pick from 100 young, overproduced, soon to be permanently lame and dead before their time due to stressing joints doing lateral work at 3 and pirouettes at 4 - all of course in sitting trot on warmbloods that are meant to mature at 6

yep - go ahead and pick from the quantity - they may be 'well bred' - doesn't mean to say they'll stay sound having been overworked at 2 and foals loose jumped over 4 ft at 6 months old (in H&H about 3 months ago).

Similar to ready meals - lots of quantity, not much flavour, over too soon and isn't a patch on creating from the raw ingredients - which is the way good UK bred horses are produced - start slow and aim for the horse to last - but of course that means that the rider has to be capable of producing the young horse, not just climbing aboard something a German riderr has spent months producing to advanced medium and then bringing it over here to go pothunting at Prelim !!!
 
They are treated differently. Buying one as a youngster is probably the best bet though. They will have already been tried and tested over in Europe; quickly found to be of a lower quality and then shipped over to England to be found and bought by a loving owner.

Previous to this, most of these young horses were destined for the meat markets....however to a breeder in Europe - the English are their saving grace (and the saving grace of the horse too......quite literally!). They now make 3 times as much money as they would have made at the meat auctions. The Brits are happy with their horse - the Europeans are happy with their money.

Buying a young horse from Europe; risks are fairly low. It hasn't been there long enough to find out about the regime therefore after a short while of settling in, there should be no long-term issues with it. It's the older ones (7 years +) who suffer in my opinion.....these are the sad sorts I used to import.
 
they do breed a vast quantity - holland and germany are the worst for this - and the 'surplus' goes to be horsemeat

they breed in huge farms mainly in large barns - so when you are breeding literally HUNDREDS of mares in one location - no wonder you can produce 100 horses for a UK punter to view

Don't forget as well - that the UK is the ONLY country in the EU where the horse is not rated as an agricultural animal - hence the extra tax burden and planning issues we have in comparison with the EU subsidies the foreign breeders get for 'horse farming'

You obviously love your horse - just next time - buy a UK bred one ;-)
 
Thanks Tia he was just turned 6 when I got him so, hopefully, he is ok. I imagined that he hadn't made the grade as a jumper so that is why I was able to buy him. I love him and I can't bear to think that he won't live for a long, long time.
 
p.s. he has a brand on his right thigh - a Z with a sort of shield round it. Do you know what this means? I know it stands for Zangersheide stud but I thought he was bred in Belgium and that stud is in Holland.
 
exactyly "tried and tested"

translates as overworked and overfaced too young before they are mature at age 6

so is it worse to have a life of being overfaced, sold to a UK punter and then suffer veterinary treatment for unsoundness for months before being put down or just put down for meat when the German breeder realises the animal isn't up to scratch

I think it's kinder to send for meat sooner, rather than torture young bones and inflict suffering in the future

If it is not acceptable to race 2 yr old TBs then the German and Dutch practices are equally unacceptable.

Difference is that the racing people get the brickbats on occasion - the foreigners get praise for what they do - bl**dy ridiculous
 
Well that isn't always the case thankfully. I would say the majority of European WB's last a good while.

In my experience, only a minority are ruined, only a small minority are about to fall apart into pieces or have any long-lasting ill-effects. To be honest the ones I had were perfect conformationally; it was their minds which were very disturbed.
 
and probably disturbed by being overfaced too young or being asked to take the next step before the current one is consolidated

the continentals don't seem to have heard the phrase "end a training session on a good note" - they just stop - and then start again tomorrow and demand progress as there is MONEY involved.

and I spent a goodly while in a yard importing dressage horses from abroad and even the 'sound' ones were NOT really sound - just fudged and sold on with foreign vet certs that were of dubious validity

some came back - and ended up for meat or sold on to another UK mug punter after quick results and pothunting at prelim with a nag that had been trained at 2 or 3 to do advanced dressage or jump 5 ft and take it to discovery

tbh the whole system STINKS - the punters can look after themselves and if they want to waste their cash - fine

it's the HORSES I get angry about - and I really would like to line PS and his elite auction and others of that ilk up against a wall and shoot them - or at least let them feel the pain fo the young overfaced horses they sell
 
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and probably disturbed by being overfaced too young or being asked to take the next step before the current one is consolidated

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Oh yes - without question! Most WB's in Europe are working at medium level dressage well before they reach the age of 5......
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Most never see the light of day. Most know nothing of the outside world; all they see is their prison for 23 hours of each day and the daily outing down the hall to the arena.

Of course it is money. That is the route which allows this practice to continue and for as long as Brits continue to buy these horses, the more revenue European breeders will collect which in turn lowers the chances of the whole process being ceased.
 
Interesting that people think that sporthorses are produced to young in europe yet we are supposed to be the leaders in producing race horses that are raced at what age?????
 
Totally no comparison in my opinion, between a 3 year old racehorse and a 3 year old competition horse.
 
already made that point

it's not logical (to quote Star Trek)

people applaud the Germans et all for wrecking warmbloods and pillory racing for wrecking TBs - yet the German practice is WORSE

TBs mature at 4 so doing things at 2 is when they are 50% mature

WBs mature at 6 so doing things at 2 is when they are only 33% mature

the continental WB factories are FAR FAR worse than the TB industry over here

At least our TBs see grass and daylight - the warmbloods are bred in barns
 
They are very nice but dosent it worry you that 3yo's are working in such an outline or is it just me that thinks horses are being brought on way too quickly
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edited to say sorry just read the other replies and it seems its not just me
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They're all like that; not so much the youngsters, but always the +7 year old ones sadly.
 
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