No wonder we go abroad for horses

I think the over generalisations on this thread are totally crazy - I know everyone has their own opinion but jesus!
 
A WB owner nevertheless; that was my point.
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Some of the top batch are ONLY **3*** and they will NOT stay sound into their mid-20s because their joints and body are stressed to work at a high dressage level, in an outline in SITTING trot just to make a good price for pothunting punters

These horses futures are being sacrificed for money and their lives put at risk by excessive dressage work far far far too young. If you consider what the 3 yr olds are doing - consider that they will have started that work at **2**

I really really HATE to see these horses so stressed up at this age when they should be in rising trot, working relaxed and forward but not in this advanced outline and excessive collection.



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Totally agree. They look wonderful until you see their age. Surely they will end up with joint problems before too long?
 
What a fascinating topic this is.

As the owner of a warmblood who was bred in Britain, I'm not sure if that classes me as a baddy or goody.

My British-bred warmblood is bred from classic European lines (Ramiro/Hanoverian). He didn't drop dead at the age of four, nor, by the age of 14, has he had a day's illness or unsoundness except for when he fell over while playing silly horses in the field.

I did not examine his pedigree when i bought him. I bought him because I loved his type and he was exactly what I was looking for.

Surely if British breeders want to compete with the Europeans, they must produce more of the sort of horse people want to buy. And that does mean not breeding from unsound mares, sending your mare to the stallion down the road because he's cheap, closest etc, even if he is ungraded.

If British breeders produce what I want at the time I;m looking for another horse, I will buy from them. But if they don't I will happily look abroad.
 
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My British-bred warmblood ....... He didn't drop dead at the age of four, nor, by the age of 14

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Yes I think that is the point Airedale is trying to make. Yours hasn't fallen apart because your's wasn't exposed to high level riding at 2 or 3 years old.

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.....bred from classic European lines (Ramiro/Hanoverian)

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Most of them go back to him LOL! Or one of the other couple of high-profile stallions. That was my earlier point.
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He was backed at three though. He was getting big, bored and bolshy, so it was suggested that he be done early.

I thought Airedale's point was that anyone who buys anything that isn't British is sub0human -- or a non-person at least!! Or are there two seperate points. One that no one should but any horse that isn't British and the second that no one should work a horse at a young age??
 
LOL!! That tickled me
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. I can't comment on the "sub-human" issue - that's for Airedale to qualify, LOL!! After all I could also be classed as "sub-human" in Airedale's book because I own Paint horses
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The difference, I assume, would be that your horse may have been backed at 3 - but I very much doubt he was doing medium level dressage at this age? Or jumping 5ft?

I also back all of my horses at 2 - gently and quietly but they are not broken until they are 4. Doesn't sit well with some people but it does with me and many others.
 
Funny I did not see one 3yr old jumping & the 4yr olds did not look as if the fences they were asked to jump were anywhere nr 5ft?? What ever the rights or wrongs everyone of those horses has fab movement, & better then ave confirmation. Why would anyone want to breed from a pony/horse that had a short thick neck that would make flexing impossible, & upright pasterns which normally give a jarring movement? But it happens, because most people dont/and are not bothered enough to care. The europeans treat it as a business, but at the same time they care about the blood lines. How many people in this country are really bothered about how their horse is bred? There is outcry because a 3yr old can move in a collected manner, yet we back 12mth TB's & put them on the race track at 2yrs. There is nothing stopping the new owner turning the 3yr old away for a few mths to allow it to mature & give it a break. They can afford to do it because they are still going to have a horse that can go out and do its job. The break downs are not so much physical as mental. Have a look at how the foals move, the movement is bred into them, they naturally have collection/elevation. I don't know anywhere in the UK you can go and see 50 horses of that calibar. So I am sorry though I am a fan of the ISH, CB & native crosses, I do not blame anyone for wanting to go abroad and buy anyone of those horses.
 
I find it quite interesting that people don't think warmbloods don't 'mature' until they are six. where does this come from as this is not my experience. We generally do not break ours until they are 4/5 year olds but not because they are not mature enough. They develop very quickly, physically and mentally and are extremly easy to train because they are naturally balanced. I cannot ride to save my life, but even I can get a young horse nine times out of 10 it will strike off on the right leg, which saves months in training them to do it.

Abroad it is an industry rather than in the UK where it is a pastime so they are treated differently. I have been to Zangersheide quite a number of times and are amazed in the way they treat the horses. It is first class.
The foals when weaned are either in large boxes in pairs for company or in herds of about 20 in large airy barns. Weather permitting, they are turn out in fields as a herd, so have a very natural life until they are sold. It is a business so they want the best for the horses. They have an open weekend at the begining of the year and it is well worth a visit.

One of the most amazing things to see is the yearlings loose jump. I asked the stud manager once how they get them to do this and he said they get about 12 youngsters into an indoor school, put some poles on the ground, shut the door and go for a coffee. They then go back and they are jumping them. Not because they are forced to do it because they want to do it. Two reasons, they are inquisitive creatures and as a herd encourage each other to do it and because it is in their genes now to do it. They do not do this very often but do it because the horses enjoy it and it gradually introduces them to fences.

I am not saying every facility or attitude is like this, but we can say the same about farms in this country. Abroad they concentrate on producing horses for jumping and dressage. In the UK we have Jumping, Dressage, Eventing, Racing, Hunting so there is a difference there for a start. I personally think the horse industry in the UK is a shambles with no clear directives.
 
As an add on, I was thumbing through a H&H (couple of months old) last night and saw the Ponderosa Stud (near Stoneleigh) advertising a large number of young horses for sale..judging from the breeding they mentioned, every one was a warmblood, and I would guess they were all imported
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If a stud associated with some of our top showjumpers is doing this there is little hope for native British breeding IMO
 
I would also like to add that Sponeck was produced in Germany, then went to Belgium before coming to the UK. This horse is still going strong and he is 17 this year. His sire Caprimond has not broken down, neither did Karon and on the dam's side Marduc was still fit and healthy when he passed away in 1995. I think people forget that these people know what they are doing, they are not amaters, this is not a game to them it is their business. You will always find exceptions, but on the whole these horses are very well looked after as is their training. Reading some of these posts gives the impression that these horses are breaking down all over the place. If that was the case why are all our top riders mounted on these horses? There have been some lovely mares on here breeding some cracking foals, then there are some none descript animals put to some unknown stallion because it has a good temperment. Just as well some people do take the breeding side seriously enough to produce good quality animals that are going to give YEARS of pleasure to their owners.
 
I own british bred, as it is too much hassle for me to go abroad. I like the natives, love th connies and don't see anything better than a ISH. But that's my opinion. If I had insisted on buying irish I wouldn't have bought my eventer, he's from england but I'm not bothered. I think you restrict yourself if you specify your 'nationality' as the perfect horse may not be irish/british etc.
I'm happy to support, but only if it is quality enough to support!
 
I own a British (Scottish) bred horse, and I know because I've met his breeder that he was only backed at 5yo. And then turned away because he was small for his breeding (15.2) and very balshy - they had to turn him out in his roller. His full brother is 17.2 so he had not fulfilled their requirements.
 
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