No, you do not 'love' your horse if...

Status
Not open for further replies.
Theocat said:
I'm sorry; you aren't being clear. Exactly which type of financial decision does it have to be before it means we do love the horse?

We suddenly lose all our income and savings coincidentally when the horse has to be retired?

We're unable to actually find the money, despite every effort, to cover big vet bills?

We balk at the idea of paying out, potentially, £120,000 to keep it? (That's five hundred quid a month for twenty years) Remember, we get to okay it over time which makes it "affordable".

Or are you actually just saying that those for whom money really is no object, who get rid of the horse the second it ceases work, are the only ones you're referring to?

The vast majority of those choosing to put an animal down before it becomes necessary are making a financial decision of one kind of another. You can't possibly draw a line through such a grey area and dictate which people love their horse and which don't.
Click to expand...

Excellent post. Perhaps OP could produce a more detailed contract of care by which we could gauge our feelings for our horses.
 
Evie91 said:
Not sure about the cycling analogy either, if my husband could not do all he does now, would I still love him, yes absolutely!
Click to expand...

Sadly, though, lots of relationships do break down because if this sort of change - but you posted a very balanced comment:)
 
Wagtail said:
No one is condemning anyone for putting a horse to sleep when it can no longer work. I just get irritated when the same people say they love the horse. They do not. That is not to say that they cannot love a horse. They just obviously haven't owned it yet.
Click to expand...

I have to disagree with this. A lot of horses enjoy their work and when they no longer are able to, there are all sorts of reasons why PTS may be an option, for e.g. they may be very unhappy not being in regular work and getting increasingly distressed at no longer having the regularity of routine that they once had; the owner may not be realistically be able to give them the specialist care they need; or pure and simple they may not be able to afford the luxury of keeping a horse as a field ornament.

There are a great deal more terrible things that can happen to a horse that can no longer do its job, than being PTS. The saddest adverts that one sees are horses advertised in H&H and FB, and elsewhere, where horses/ponies have obviously done a job well but can no longer do it so effectively - they are then advertised as "companions" or "can do light work" - and everyone knows that these unfortunate animals will end up shunted from pillar to post, to seedy dealers, to market, and then the meat man. Far kinder to make a decision to PTS rather than do this to a horse surely?
 
Last edited:
I have had a lot of horses nearly fifty I should think .
I do like/ love some more than others we had one I can honestly say I disliked but he suited MrGS perfectly .
I can honestly say hand on heart I treated all of them the same in the end of life decision wether they were an extra special one like GS and her wonderful mum or the one of mrgs's that I did not like .
In fact I nursed that one for six months of box rest at one point .
Horses dont care if we love them it's irrelevant for them it's the care they receive they value and the fairness with which they are handled and trained .
 
What has love got to do with it?
We should have care and compassion for our animals, and people how ever long they live, love has nothing to do with it.
Love has been an excuse for abuse,' I have hit you,starved you, kept you in pain because I love you so much and can't bare to lose you
'
So you love your animal and will not let it go even though you can not afford to maintain its or your children's needs? The horse does not know it is loved, it needs it basic needs filled and allowed to be a horse. I give care to all my charges animaI and human do not have to love them to do that, in fact the less I like them the harder I try
I have a disposal able horse, she is an old broodmare, this will be her last home. You can not catch her,stroke her, she is happiest away from people the day she is shot will perhaps be a relief for her. You do not have to love to give good care.
Love has nothing to do with caring or owning for animals, everyone s idea of love is different, care and compassion should be the standard.
 
honetpot said:
What has love got to do with it?
We should have care and compassion for our animals, and people how ever long they live, love has nothing to do with it.
Love has been an excuse for abuse,' I have hit you,starved you, kept you in pain because I love you so much and can't bare to lose you
'
So you love your animal and will not let it go even though you can not afford to maintain its or your children's needs? The horse does not know it is loved, it needs it basic needs filled and allowed to be a horse. I give care to all my charges animaI and human do not have to love them to do that, in fact the less I like them the harder I try
I have a disposal able horse, she is an old broodmare, this will be her last home. You can not catch her,stroke her, she is happiest away from people the day she is shot will perhaps be a relief for her. You do not have to love to give good care.
Love has nothing to do with caring or owning for animals, everyone s idea of love is different, care and compassion should be the standard.
Click to expand...

Bingo. Well said.
 
Mongoose11 said:
Excellent post. Perhaps OP could produce a more detailed contract of care by which we could gauge our feelings for our horses.
Click to expand...

And what degree of finciancial hardship makes it ok to PTS .
Is not being able to have a new car a holiday and do up the bathroom or do the children have to going through bins for snacks before its ok .
 
I don't really understand the point of this thread. I'd say there a very very few people who would just casually say 'eh shoot that one and get another' with no valid reason and then also claim to love the horse so much.

If a horse is ending it's ridden career there is usually a reason - old age, injury - so if your horse is pts with those reasons it's ok to say you love it then? I don't know anyone who would randomly retire their horse for no reason and have it shot?!

The type of person this thread is aimed at is a tiny minority of horse owners so it feels like this was posted purely to upset people.
 
Totally agree. It's not about love it's about being responsible. I never thought twice about how much I "loved" a horse when it came to it's care, I did what I felt was right and I would do the same when it came to it's end.
Goldenstar said:
I have had a lot of horses nearly fifty I should think .
I do like/ love some more than others we had one I can honestly say I disliked but he suited MrGS perfectly .
I can honestly say hand on heart I treated all of them the same in the end of life decision wether they were an extra special one like GS and her wonderful mum or the one of mrgs's that I did not like .
In fact I nursed that one for six months of box rest at one point .
Horses dont care if we love them it's irrelevant for them it's the care they receive they value and the fairness with which they are handled and trained .
Click to expand...
 
I am another Obe who does not believe love has anything to do with the level of care animals receive.
I would not keep a horse alive if I could not provide what I believe that horse needs in order to meet its basic needs.
I also would no entrust the long term care of my horse to someone who is making a profit by providing that care. I work in the industry and I honestly feel my horse has her basic needs and then some met.
I don't believe retiring a horse is in the horses best interest unless they can free roam a large average with a stable herd of other retired horses with a routine of care that they all receive.
So yes if mine had to retire I would call it time and she would be shot, i don't however feel that I love her but I see lots of animals who suffer because their owners are blinded by love and cannot face losing them.
Better amount too soon rather than a day too late.
 
How would you feel wagtail if someone started a thread and said anyone who kept a horse going for a long time while it was repeatedly suffering from laminitis and couldn't eat grass and couldn't eat hay and was on a highly restricted diet and so on and so on, couldn't have loved their horse?

Personally, I would prefer to sell on to a quieter life before it got to the PTS stage. A couple of mine will live on as big expensive hairy pets here, no doubt but I, like you, have my own place. Many people aren't lucky enough to have their own place and I am sorry but keeping a horse for perhaps twenty years as a big expensive pet on livery doesn't mean you love it any more than someone who decides to call it a day.
 
Last edited:
This post is very judgemental, who are we to say how much anyone loves their horse.
I'm in the fortunate situation that I have my own yard with good grazing so should any of my horses become unridable then as long as they are happy and sound they can be turned out and retired, to be honest, they could still live how they do now minus the riding.

However, I have many people on my yard who go without to have horses that they have to ride, they are not in a financial situation to have a horse as a pet, as let's face it , they are NOT pets.

I know that should any of these animals have an issue that deemed them unridable, chances are they would have them put to sleep to enable them to have a horse to do what they enjoy.... Riding!

Just because they would chose this it doesn't mean they don't love their horse ant less than you do wagtail. I see these people with them every day and they adore them but people have to be realistic, not everyone has the time, money, inclination to collect horses they can't ride.
 
I'm another who's confused as to why this has been posted. You're preaching to the choir here, don't think the type who shoot them on a whim frequent this place much.
 
. Many people aren't lucky enough to have their own place and I am sorry but keeping a horse for perhaps twenty years as a big expensive pet on livery doesn't mean you love it any more than someone who decides to call it a day.
Click to expand...


Perhaps love is too emotive a word, I don't know. But if you have two people, with identical horses, and one retires the horse and keeps it for twenty years unridden, and the other has it put down and replaces it with a horse which can be ridden, how do we describe the difference?

I'm not being judgemental about this in any way. I'm in the group which would put the horse down. I'm also happy to accept that the people who wouldn't PTS 'love' the horse (as in, have a stronger emotional attachment to it) than I do.
 
Last edited:
Presumably horses finish riding because they have some sort of issue. Many deteriorate and are left in pain. Many are sold on to quieter homes which end up running them to the ground.

We all know putting a healthy animal to sleep is not the worst fate it can have.
 
Last edited:
Have we defined love yet? Given that is entire construct based on emotions I don't understand a definition would be very helpful :p. Though it would certainly be a mistake to assume everyone feels this mysterious thing the same.
IME most people try and do the best for their horses, others might not agree but that disagreement doesn't mean they don't love them, it might well be that 'love' is different for different people.
On the basis that I don't know what love is I need Frank more than I have ever needed anyone else in my life, to the point that if he goes I will have questions over my own existence and ability to cope but I don't think that would be deemed a terribly healthy situation to be in either :p, and I still wouldn't be sure it was love :p.
 
I was going to comment but everything I could say has been said. Perhaps wagtail should go and examine her reasons for starting this thread? She seems very unaware of the consequences of her arbitrary pronouncements and probably of her own motives.
 
I think this thread does well to bring up the fact that if you take on responsibility for a horse you also take on the responsibility to determine how it will exit your care; even if you do not want to face that fact.

Those who frequent this forum will have encountered the dilemma but to many their first experience with it is when they are themselves in that situation where they have to determine it. Perhaps threads such as this can help someone to figure out their stance on the subject and prepare them for the realities and potential downsides of horse ownership.

It also drives home the point that regardless of how and when each and every one of us chooses to let their horse go, a horse is a living animal and not something to be disposed of lightly and at a whim. Taking on responsibility for a horse is to take on that responsibility and carry it well up until the end.
 
Antw23uk said:
Yes you are!
Click to expand...
Absolutely not!!! I have had to PTS two of my horses in the last two years, both of which were very much loved but in the interest of welfare (both had many health issues) they were PTS and it tore me apart but I did it because I loved them, it would have been plain selfish to keep them going! I also would not condem those that PTS for financial reasons (particularly if horse is quirky and would be difficult to rehome) but I don't think you can truely love a horse if you PTS PURELY because it no longer serves a purpose, it does NOT in anyway mean a horse has not been well cared for just that if you truely LOVE a horse you would go without competing/riding/showing to keep it if it lost it's "use". If you loved your partner would you leave them just because they became incapacitated!? NO. Of all my current 4 horses I only truely love one (I obviously care for them all and treat them equally) and I would never dream of having him PTS because he can no longer jump or show, I would sell my ridable mare (who is absolutely perfect for me) and my kids ponies before I would part with him if it came to it. I love him, I will always do my best for him even when he's old and can't even be hacked out, he will always have a home and PTS will never be an option as long as his health allows
 
I loved my old pony enough that when his career was over I chose for him to have a dignified end after a short retirement. We have more than enough land to have ponies on retirement (have 2 others long term retired and at the time had 3) and there was no financial constraints (within reason obviously but that wasn't a factor). It also didn't free up space/time to get another. Keeping him indefinitely would not have been a kind thing to do, and as much as I loved him I still had clarity of thought to 'see' it from his perspective and have him out down aged 11. What ever was best for that pony he would have got, and ultimately did I guess! I loved him and still miss him now. Once my dog stopped being able to live free of distress he was also put down.
 
I find questioning other people's statements about their own emotional state fairly pointless tbh. It is not a welfare issue imo, therefore nobody's business but the horses owners. I don't quite understand why the OP is concerned about what others say about their own horses. I have heard people say that they love cream cakes, but they eat them rather than save them to love :p As I recall, the ancient Greeks had many different words for love, as they understood that there are many shades and varieties of that particular emotion.
 
Cortez said:
I wish people would love their horses less and take care of them more. IME it is the animal lovers who tend to keep their horses (and other animals) going far, far longer than is kind or reasonable, because they "love them too much to kill them".
Click to expand...

Absolutely, completely, 100% agree
 
I am with ycbm, my outlook on life for all living souls is quality not quantity. I am very fond of my horses but I don't love them. I would not see them suffer. I have never sold a horse, some I have retired and some I have had PTS when they can no longer be ridden. My dogs I love, I would re-mortgage my house to fund treatment for them if necessary. I would not financially destroy myself for my horses.
 
How dare you presume to know how people feel about their horses.

4 years ago I was a given a retired racehorse. The most charming horse I have ever met ( and I've met a few in my life) who is a wonderful ride, a true gentleman in every sense of the word and whom next week I will pts. As I write this my throat is closing and tears are prickling my eyes, I love the very bones of him, he is part of the family and it is for that very reason that I will go ahead, despite every inch of my heart screaming no and have him shot.

When he arrived with me he was thin, frightened and terribly sad. I fed him, loved him, nursed him and tried for a year to rehabilitate him to compete but he simply couldn't cope with any pressure. As soon as I realised that I was making him unhappy asking him to do this, I turned him out with a herd to run over 20 acres thinking that may help him. He hated every minute of it, felt abandoned and afraid. I brought him home and he became the nanny, he led my daughter on her pony, he hacked out with the youngster to give her confidence. He became a huge character, the yard clown, incredibly gentle with my then 3 year daughter, allowing her to lead him in and out of the field, to wash him, brush him and play hide and seek in his manger.

He hates the winter, we coaxed him through last winter with a lot of food and supplements, he has stiff joints and at 16 shows the fruits of a hard life. He won £300,000 in his racing career, won a Grade 1 hurdle and 2 Grade 2's, was ridden and won for AP McCoy, Ruby Walsh, Paul Carberry to name but a few. He owes the human race nothing, he has run until his heart was broken, I inherited the pieces.

In 4 years I have given him as much confidence as I was able, all the love in the world and in return he has been kind, loving and immensely generous. Last week he wasn't ridden as the hunter has come back into work who is now leading the pony and I was busy and just exercised the ones that had to be. He was distraught and hid at the back of his stable. I rode him today and he was delighted and begging for apples over his door again.

Next week I will give him a dignified end, whilst he is still well and happy and I will guarantee that no one will ever be able to hurt or frighten him again. I owe him that, it will tear me apart to do it but I will not see him left on the side lines because his body is failing and he can no longer be part of things as he wants to be.

Don't you dare presume that I don't love this horse, it is my love for him that will keep me from faltering next week and my love for him will set him free from anymore pain, ever.
 
This is actually a bit of a philosophical question really and a lot depends on the person's background. For instance farmers will send an injured horse to the factory, so they have the payment, where others will have pts. Although those same farmers would not say they "loved" the horse - that emotion is reserved for family.

I know what you're saying Wagtail and I would feel as you do about my horses. But then I feel hypocritical. I eat meat, I'll bet I could feel attachment to cattle if I had them and worked with them enough, yet we think nothing of disposing of them. Which is where I think the farmers get the attitude from, that allows them to factory a horse without a moments thought.

Another point though: retirement liveries are not expensive, there's a fab woman in Cornwall with loads of acres to roam, she really looks after them and it's £25 a week. When you consider that many spend hundreds a month on livery this is a very affordable option for people.

For a couple of years I had a grass livery ( non ridden) with some retirees. In fairness it was horse utopia, we opened out the gates on a 100 acre farm and there was one big herd. They absolutely loved it. And I never met a horse who did not adjust to being in the herd. Think about it - it's their natural state. No matter how competitive the horse, they blimmin loved reverting to the herd. A lovely lady send me a 24 yr-old pony who had jumped for Finland and Ireland, and she had the most brilliant retirement just pottering and being in the herd.

All I would say is for anyone wondering would their horse "cope" or be happy non ridden - yes they would, in the right setting. it's their natural state after all. They don't need us, they have plenty going on with their herd dynamics and deciding where to graze. At the time I was tempted to get a tee shirt printed inspired by the lead mare. It would read - Humans are For Losers. That was the level of interest they had in people. Still it was a pure privilege just to spend time with them, and either hear or watch them take off galloping from one end of the farm to the other. I'm rambling now so I'll leave it there. This is a very big question and somehow I don't think it will be solved here:)
 
Theocat said:
For those who love the horse but send it away to retirement livery or a blood bank - I don't have a problem with that, and it's certainly none of my business. But fundamentally, what's in it for the horse? Why is a longer life better than a short one? And what is the owner getting out of it? If they love the horse (more than those ghastly ones amongst us who would put down instead) how can they bear to be parted from it? I can't see that keeping a horse alive and sending it away shows any more love than having it put down.
Click to expand...

I retired my horse when he could no longer be ridden at a level that both he and I enjoyed (he would never be a quiet hack). He is now at a retirement livery yard and I see him approximately 4 times a year. He is field sound enjoying his last few years without having any demands on him. I sent him away because there wasn't anywhere local with the facilities he needed. I would have much preferred to have kept him at home with me, but had to do what was right for him.

I can bear to be parted from him because I am putting his interests first. I could have kept him and seen him everyday but that wouldn't have been the best thing for him. When I do visit and see that he still has the cheeky sparkle in his eye I know, despite the financial sacrifice, I've done the right thing.

Horses don't exist simply to serve us, and when they have given us 20 years or so, surely a (if healthy) retirement is a small thank you.

Of course, I would far rather a horse was PTS than simply given away or sold on when it was no longer useful - people who do that really are appalling.
 
Doormouse, I just want to say - fair play to you. That is as sad a story as I have ever heard. The poor old horse, I do often wonder if racing isn't cruel, with all the crazy pressure those animals are under. You have done your very best for him and he knows that. I'm sure he'll be forever indebted to you.
 
Last edited:
It's not always that simple. I've an 18 year old 17hh horse with history weak SI, he's still in full work but not really competing but for fun. He needs a lot of gymnastic work, bodywork, careful management. He must hack as well as school as history soft tissue damage. He's hard work and costly. But he's worth it. He's my horse of a lifetime.

BUT I've rehabbed the SI 3 times, and there won't be a fourth time. Last time took 9 months. It's not fair on either of us. IMO he won't retire either as I don't think him losing strength or power is fair. We will see but my feeling is I'll try and keep him going as long as feels right. But PTS before he knows fear / weakness / dropping to bottom herd hierarchy.

I have a second riding horse. I will probably put above horse down not long after I stop riding him.

And if anybody DARES believe I don't love the bones of my older horse. I love him and **I** with the advice of the professionals that support us will make the best decision for him. It's no one else's business. I'm the one that needs to look my horse in the eye.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top