Non-horsey people running a yard? What do you think?

[Keith_Beef]

A couple of weeks ago, the one of the yards across the street from my house changed hands...

I found out about it when I heard the sounds of horses being reluctantly loaded into trailers and lorries, lots of whinnying, stomping, clattering of shoes against tarmac, and kicking against trailer and lorry walls, and went out to see what all the commotion was. I found the then owner supervising, and he told me he and his wife had sold up and were moving to another place they had bought in Brittany.

Last week, I saw that there was some movement in that yard, and went across to see what was going on, and met a woman a bit younger than me with a woman a bit older than me, who told me that they are the new owners. We had a short chat, and I found that they won't be running the riding school that the previous owners ran, nor kids' parties; it will be purely a livery yard.

Yesterday afternoon, I saw my former instructor, a mutual friend and another woman (whom I know much less well) standing in the street by the gate while the first two of them were having a smoke, so I went across to talk and to find out what was going on.

Among other things, I discovered that the new owners are mother and daughter (which I had suspected), but also that they know not much about horses, other than that they have four legs and cost a lot...

One of the anecdotes was that the daughter saw a bag of something by one of the stables and asked what it was.

"It's bran."

"What's it for?"

So that's about the level of knowledge for now... The new owners haven't given current liveries the impression that they was to learn a great deal about how to look after horses, but have insisted on enforcing a few rules such as forbidding smoking anywhere on the premises, and, er, that's it for now. Oh, and they insist on sweeping the hard standing when there's straw on it, which my three friends think is just a very efficient way of stirring up dust and making the horses cough a lot...

I don't know what the new owners have done in the past... the might have been in finance or management roles in companies and think that they can buy in the technical horsey skills that they need by recruiting a day-to-day manager.

So, what do you think? Is it possible to run a yard without any knowledge of horses?

 

[milliepops]

I think there is a high potential for things to go wrong just in a yard politics way if it's a DIY yard, quite often what happens with YOs who either don't know much or are don't put their POV across is you get some overbearing liveries who either get the YO's ear or simply just assert themselves and take over.

 

[Alibear]

If they step back and leave it to a good yard manager who they employee, and let them make all the decisions then it works.

 

[spoo]

No it’s not possible, but this yard isn’t the first and won’t be the last. It will have a high turn over of liveries, and the horse world is small, word will get about about standards of care and it will either become one of those yards you wouldn’t touch with a barge pole, or it will be up for sale again.

 

[Shilasdair]

I think you'll find that most yard owners believe that the mere act of buying land/stables confers instant expertise upon them.

 

[Greylegs]

You mention current liveries ... I assume they're looking after their own horses OK. In which case, I'm not sure I'd be too concerned that the new owners aren't "horsey". If a new YM is eventually hired, then that person will, presumably, have the necessary skills/knowledge to offer yard services to clients, answer horse related queries and deal with day to day yard matters.

Whilst I agree that a good level of horsey knowledge is desirable when owning/running a livery yard, I'd say it's not essential in this case. The new manager will fill the gap (if they hire the right person, of course!). The "no smoking" rule seems eminently sensible to me.

 

[Trouper]

Non-horsey usually means nightmare in my experience. However, there is a difference between "owning" and "running" a livery. As others have said, if there is a competent manager then it can work but only if the owners are open to learning and taking advice and have some experience in dealing with people and all their foibles when the time comes for them to step in and arbitrate!!

 

[Ambers Echo]

Totally depends. I have known nightmare yards with non horsey farmers who know little - nothing about horses and just assume that all will be well.

But I have also known nightmare yards with experienced people who are stuck in their ways and very close minded.

On the other hand I know 2 largely non horsey couples who treated their yards like any other business - Who came from a service industry or PR - (running a restaurant, running a PR agency). They did their research, they had a customer perspective, they employed good people. And they run a fantastic yard/ trekking centre. Both have been successful. Why they went into something so hard is another question!

 

[Rowreach]

Most people don't know what bran is these days, and I'd have thought a smoking ban was common sense (it would be a requirement in the UK).

I'd give it time. Like AE says, sometimes it's a matter of having a good business perspective and employing the right people. I certainly know plenty of yards where the YO thinks they are knowledgeable, but can't run a yard to save their lives

 

[skint1]

My YOs are non-horsey farmers, they have p/t horsey ym so on that yard you have to understand that the farm takes precedent, we are there because the farm is there. It's not perfect, for example they recently replaced some fencing and a gate and the gate is much narrower than it was, quite tricky to navigate on horseback They do maintain things so fencing is generally in good repair, fields get rolled/harrowed/sprayed, tracks maintained, they supply good quality haylage and straw int he winter month but the school and some of the stable blocks could do with a serious refresh. They expect the YM to deal with livery enquiries/assigning stables and fields/neglect cases which they generally do quite well. I have seen and heard things about horsey YOs running livery yards that have made my toes curl, controlling, corner cutting, sneaky stuff- so I am in no hurry to leave, even if sometimes they do non-horse friendly things.

 

[blitznbobs]

I’m horsey and I won’t have smoking anywhere on my yard for so many reasons...

 

[npage123]

Sure, there's nothing stopping anyone from opening a livery yard, so yes it is possible. However for me personally, this won't be a yard that I would ever move to as I feel it's critical that there's a very knowledgeable and experiences horsey person available preferably '24 hours a day'. So if there is a live-in yard manager or one who stays early until light, this would make it more appealing. But still, I've got a demanding full-time job, working 12 hours weekdays and slightly less over weekends, so at my current yard where the yard owner/manager lives right next to the stables, a very professional person with a wealth of experience when it comes to horses, someone who is genuinely keen to do provide the best possible care for each horse on the yard - that to me is worth every penny I'm spending on the livery and I will never leave this yard.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

Tis hard to form an opinion without knowing the exact set-up TBH.

There's farmer in my area who - unusually for Devon (and I'm not trying to be racist here) is from an ethnic minority. He knows sweet FA about farming! He bought what used to be my maternal grandparents farm across the valley from where we are, and now runs it as a holiday business and a solar farm! When he moved in some years ago, he admitted he knew nothing about farming, and when the local hunt asked if they could go there, he admitted he knew nothing about hunting either! But he was the sort of guy who'd admit his knowledge was zilch, and would ask advice - and made several (costly) mistakes to boot. But could obviously afford to........

Are the new owners going to live on-site? Are they going to employ a suitable Yard Manager? And will the YM be on-site 24/7 to deal with an emergency situation?

The question I would ask is whether I would want my precious horse(s) to be on a yard where if there is an equine emergency such as a late-night/Bank Holiday (it always happens at this time), then the person in charge of the yard doesn't have a clue about what to do or even what's wrong.

Personally that would be a huge no-no for me, but it may well be that they are intending to employ staff???

 

[Auslander]

If they employ a decent manager - yes,
I'd far rather have my horses on a yard owned by people who are non horsey, but are aware that they know nothing, than by someone who thinks they know everything.
Conscious ignorance over unconscious ignorance every time

 

[J&S]

I have had experience of this and it was quite a struggle when the owner had absolutely no understanding of equestrian husbandry.

 

[Keith_Beef]

Most people don't know what bran is these days, and I'd have thought a smoking ban was common sense (it would be a requirement in the UK).

Really, most people don't know what bran is? I wonder about people's lack of curiosity... What do they think Kellogg's All-Bran is made from?

Over here, bakeries often add bran to their flour to increase the fibre content of the bread.

As for smoking... over here, too, it would be a legal requirement for premises open to the public to have a general smoking ban, a specific smoking area could be designated.

But this is France, where enforcement of any kind of law or rule is, well, I'll be charitable and call it "variable"...

I'd give it time. Like AE says, sometimes it's a matter of having a good business perspective and employing the right people. I certainly know plenty of yards where the YO thinks they are knowledgeable, but can't run a yard to save their lives

The owners are having a part of a hayloft converted into a second flat, next to the existing flat, so that each of the two owners can have her own space... so it looks like at least some of the time at least one of them will be "living over the shop".

 

[milliepops]

As for smoking... over here, too, it would be a legal requirement for premises open to the public to have a general smoking ban, a specific smoking area could be designated.

But this is France, where enforcement of any kind of law or rule is, well, I'll be charitable and call it "variable"...

the smoking thing is more about fire risk. for as long as I can remember, most yards have been non-smoking areas, well before any smoking bans in public places.

 

[Red-1]

I feel sorry for the new owners, they haven't done anything wrong yet, but people are looking to criticise.

I would be happy about a smoking ban as I personally would not keep my horse on a yard where people smoked freely in the stables area.

When I worked in Police Mounted section, the best manager I had was a completely non horse person. He was only there as a temporary swap so someone else got experience elsewhere, and we all thought it would be awful.

Nope, that man was an out and out manager and people person. The yard had never been such a happy place. The stable manager was allowed to manage the stables, the trainer allowed to train, the grooms groomed, the Officers did Police stuff and tended their own horses to ensure they were properly turned out.

Amazingly, the whole yard got together for the 10am sweep. Every single person hands on deck to have the place clean and tidy. Many hands make light work.

The man chose not to learn to ride or do anything technical, that was not his job. He managed people. People did the jobs. Part of his management was the sweeping. He also enquired how your day went, what had worked well and what had not worked well. He asked how procurement worked. How fields were rotated. Who serviced the tractor. Made sure that if savings could be made, that they were.

All of a sudden we were all watched in the nicest possible way, to ensure the department worked well. He even came to football matches, and had to be restrained from trying to work a crowd on his own on foot, as that was our job.

At the end of the 3 months swap we wanted him to stay. Best manager we ever had, department was the best it ever had been. He still knew little about horses. He knew a lot about people.

 

[Keith_Beef]

I feel sorry for the new owners, they haven't done anything wrong yet, but people are looking to criticise.

I don't think anybody on here has criticised the new owners, but my question seems to have brought to the surface a few bad experiences some people have had in the past.

My three friends don't seem to have high hopes for them, but I hope they'll be proved wrong. I hope that they can be as good as your temporary manager was, it's a very encouraging story.

 

[BOWS28]

With a decent yard manager, there is no reason it can't be run well and be a successful business. And if i'm honest, alot of people wouldn't know what Bran is nowadays so i don't think that's a be all and end all lol.
Without sounding harsh, i feel sorry for the new owners because they have neighbours criticising their every move before they've even done something wrong! I'd say give them a chance and unless you keep your horse there it's not even worth worrying about. They'll either find their feet or fun for the hills... Time will tell

 

[dogatemysalad]

The smokers weren't smoking on the yard, they were outside the gates on the street, so I'm guessing smoking was banned on the yard.
Are yards in France the same as our DIY yards, where owners are responsible for care and the landowner maintains the property ? The issue is, not whether they are horsey, but rather, are they good managers who seek advice on land management and employ people to do what's needed.
Usually, livery yards owned by farmers are better maintained than some horsey people who may know about horses, but don't understand pasture management and don't have the machinery or resources to maintain fences, hedges, buildings and grazing.
A good owner, who listens, has resources and is a good manager gets my vote.

 

[Keith_Beef]

The smokers weren't smoking on the yard, they were outside the gates on the street, so I'm guessing smoking was banned on the yard.
Are yards in France the same as our DIY yards, where owners are responsible for care and the landowner maintains the property ? The issue is, not whether they are horsey, but rather, are they good managers who seek advice on land management and employ people to do what's needed.
Usually, livery yards owned by farmers are better maintained than some horsey people who may know about horses, but don't understand pasture management and don't have the machinery or resources to maintain fences, hedges, buildings and grazing.
A good owner, who listens, has resources and is a good manager gets my vote.

It's common here for a yard to propose "boxe nue" which is equivalent to what I think you call DIY livery, and then a few other different levels of service to do with feed, mucking out, exercise.

Turnout where I live is very limited; most yards are just a load of stables around an arena, with concreted paths.

There's no pasture here, but there's the forest right on the doorstep. It's common to see somebody leading a horse in a headcollar to graze in the shade of the trees.

 

[dogatemysalad]

It's common here for a yard to propose "boxe nue" which is equivalent to what I think you call DIY livery, and then a few other different levels of service to do with feed, mucking out, exercise.

Turnout where I live is very limited; most yards are just a load of stables around an arena, with concreted paths.

There's no pasture here, but there's the forest right on the doorstep. It's common to see somebody leading a horse in a headcollar to graze in the shade of the trees.

That's interesting. I think the UK horse ownership culture is different in many ways to other countries.

 

[Keith_Beef]

That's interesting. I think the UK horse ownership culture is different in many ways to other countries.

I don't have a good idea what it's like in the rest of France.

I live quite close to Paris, and I've always found that the area around the capital of a country is not really typical of the country as a whole.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

My new YO isnt horsey. It’s fantastic, he just stomps on any drama, doesn’t cause any drama and provides a wonderful service.

He isn’t interested in anything that isn’t to do with horse welfare or Hay/Straw/Shavings orders or field
Maintenance. Unless it’s to do with the yard or horse welfare directly he doesn’t want to know and he doesn’t tolerate nastiness.

It’s very very refreshing. Horsey people running a yard with a little knowledge I think can be the worst thing over someone who just runs the business as it is.

 

[dogatemysalad]

I don't have a good idea what it's like in the rest of France.

I live quite close to Paris, and I've always found that the area around the capital of a country is not really typical of the country as a whole.

I'm curious really, driving around rural UK and Ireland, there is field after field with horses grazing year round, but when driving around Europe, the large populations of horses aren't so apparent to the casual observer.

 

[Toby_Zaphod]

If the yard is large enough & profitable enough for the owners to afford to employ a quality Yard Manager to run the place then there should be no problem. People move into senior posts in companies & they have no knowledge of how to make the product the company makes. They don't need that knowledge, that knowledge is delegated to someone else but they know how to run companies & that's why top managers move from company to company throughout their careers. As long as the right person is put in place & the owners listen to him then there should be no problem. Having a YM that can talk the talk but can't walk the walk could be a problem. Let's hope the owners have the savvy tyo put the right person in place.

 

[Keith_Beef]

I'm curious really, driving around rural UK and Ireland, there is field after field with horses grazing year round, but when driving around Europe, the large populations of horses aren't so apparent to the casual observer.

Yes, I see what you mean.

I flew into Robin Hood airport not long ago.

There were horses and ponies visible from the air not far from the end of the runway, and taking the bus to Sheffield I saw more than I could count in the fields along the road.

When I was up in Iceland in March, the only animals in the fields were native Icelandic horses. I asked about cows and sheep, and apparently they are kept in barns during the winter. The horses are tough enough to be left outside, but have hay brought out to them.

In a few weeks' time, I'll be down in the south west of France. I know that there is a herd of some kind of pony or small horse (and some donkeys) in a field near our house, but other than those, I can't think where there are any others except for at a horse farm and riding centre on the bottom road. That's if the woman is still running it; a couple of years ago she told me she wanted to sell up and take on a riding school near Limoges, to do more work teaching and less work breeding and managing fields for growing hay.

 

[oldie48]

Having been a "non horsey" person who got thrown in at the deep end, so to speak, I know you can learn very quickly if you have the will so yes, they could make it work. TBH twenty years down the road of running my own yard I am often surprised by the closed views of some who would consider themselves very "knowledgeable". What doesn't surprise me if that three "horsey" folk are already standing around predicting doom and gloom and making negative comments. The horse world isn't always a very kind place sadly.
edit to say, Yes I know what bran is but have never fed it and wouldn't as it is of little value to horses and can do harm.

 

[PonyIAmNotFood]

One side of the yard I'm on (its split in two, I'm on the subletted side so not under the yard owner, I am under horsey managers) is run by a none horsey farmers son. He treats it purely as a business, everything is black and white, you follow the business rules or you are off and he doesnt have favourites. Everything is maintained and up to health and safety standards, you need something doing and it gets done. Really straight forward approach with a good business mind and it runs like clockwork. Plus he doesnt interfere with how you are keeping your horse or bitch!