Norway bans breeding of CKCS & English bulldog.

[P3LH]

The problem IMO is that whilst closed stud books are kept as such and outcrossing is not just permitted but actively encouraged and promoted - nothing will change/things will get worse/some breeds have no chance. It is a sensible way to promote genetic diversity and breed away from undesirable traits/features/issues. CKS to Tibetan spaniels/papillon/phalanes. Bulldogs to non braccy bull breeds. Etc

 

[YorkshireLady]

if they want certain breeds to continue they will have to introduce new blood in this way....as would have happened to create breeds to start with!

 

[skinnydipper]

Discussion on Jeremy Vine today. Guests - Karen Chamberlain, English bulldog breeder (who I thought was very rude) and Ashild Roaldset, CEO Animal Protection Norway.

Breeders in Norway had been asked by government body 20 years ago to improve health or breeds would be banned.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m00140jt (35.33.)

JV's silly comment about JRTs was a distraction and I felt best ignored.

 

[Clodagh]

I saw they were discussing it but I hate JV’s show with a passion. Was there anything new said?
No doubt the bulldog breeder said dogs that cannot mate, give birth, breathe or walk were perfectly happy and well loved?

 

[skinnydipper]

I saw they were discussing it but I hate JV’s show with a passion. Was there anything new said?
No doubt the bulldog breeder said dogs that cannot mate, give birth, breathe or walk were perfectly happy and well loved?

I'm not a fan either. I caught a bit of it in the car when I was taking the dog out and found it on Sounds when I got home.

Steel yourself and have a listen . I am hoping the link will start at the right place when you click play.

An uncle of one of the listeners who phoned in had spent thousands correcting breathing problems and had other issues - poor dog.

 

[ester]

I did think even JV might have regretted talking to ‘dog people (well breeders) it was on in lab ?

 

[CorvusCorax]

WHY WAS SHE SHOUTING

 

[Tiddlypom]

WHY WAS SHE SHOUTING

As soon as she opened her mouth, I dashed to mute the radio!

 

[stangs]

I just think it’s a shame that we’ve lost the ‘true’ English bulldog. But perhaps that’s what happens when a breed loses its original job. Show breeders take over, and aesthetics get prioritised over function, health and longevity.

 

[Clodagh]

How do I get it to the actual segment? Ty

 

[skinnydipper]

If you press play and it doesn't go to the right spot (I had hoped that it would) then move the little orange dot along with your mouse/cursor to 35.33

You can skip past the music in the same way so you can listen to the callers.

 

[MurphysMinder]

I thought the breeder was very rude too , and didn’t do her cause any good .

 

[skinnydipper]

She said she breeds to the breed standard - which she helped to write.

 

[Moobli]

I had to turn it off after hearing the bulldog breeder for a couple of minutes.

 

[P3LH]

if they want certain breeds to continue they will have to introduce new blood in this way....as would have happened to create breeds to start with!

I’m not even sure it’s just about certain breeds anymore. We have gone too far with purity and closed stud books IMO.

I mused with one of the top rough collie breeders for years about introducing the blood of Welsh sheepdogs into the breed. They are of a very similar origin type and also very similar to ‘English shepherds’ in the US, where many breeders have introduced these to roughs. That breeder has since done so multiple times and the type of dog she’s producing is incredible. I would consider having one of these outcrosses after my remaining rough isn’t here. Improved type, temperament, nerve and health.

My other breed, Pembroke corgis - are another id cleverly outcross if I had the space time and money, for the sake of new genes and getting away from the shape some lines produce. I’d use either smooth coat red Jack Russell, vallhund or Lancashire heeler. I think most dachshunds could be improved by having one generation outcrossed to a smooth coat JRT or small, Black and Tan, working cockers. Poms which are now borderline brachy back to German spitz. CKS to phalanes or Tibetan spaniels for obvious reasons. Great Danes to ridgebacks as no dog needs to be that big. Wolfhounds/deerhounds to rough coat lurchers for the same reason. pekes/shihtzu to Tibetan spaniel to improve general physiology. Saint Bernards to Pyrenean mountain dog or maremma, same for Newfoundland to reduce general cloddiness and ridiculous heads. Mastiffs to bull lurchers. I could go on and on. More to the pity.

 

[Slightlyconfused]

This pic would have taken in 1995, our Cavalier (and our son!) would have been just over a year old. We were recommended getting one by a vet friend as the most baby/toddler tolerant breed. They were known to be prone to heart problems then, but we got a good 10 years from her.

Cracking little dog, I would have another if I could be sure of the Syringomyelia situ - that was not known of back in '95, I think? It's a horrendous sounding condition .

View attachment 86836

I grew up with them, all apart from our last one had good sized noses, decent heads and bodies and loved adventures and we lost them at 12 and 16.

The last one was from a breeder who wasn't as good as the others and who we trusted. He had heart problems by 7, ans breathing problems by 9. Lost him a day before his 9th birthday.

We rehomed two from my nan and grandad. Lovely dogs with no health problems apart from one getting lymphoma at 10.
The other we lost to old age at 14 and she had no heart murmur at all. Always surprised the vets when she went in.

Would love another but cannot find a breeder who breeds them how they should be.

A local bull.dog breeder has always proudly said how.much her pups go for, over 2k, and that they need c section as they cannot birth naturally. I had no words....

 

[GSD Woman]

I have a friend who has nice cavvies. She found a breeder who focuses on health and athletic soundness. I would a cavvi but I worry about the heart problems and everything that is possible to go with it.

 

[Errin Paddywack]

My friend had a lovely cavvie. He did agility and did really well, was used at stud as he was clear of all diseases. She finally lost him to throat cancer. She wouldn't risk another so opted for a cav x working cocker. This is a delightful little dog, more like a cav than a cocker and I can see that would be a good cross.

 

[GSD Woman]

Too bad too many KC are so against opening their stud books to let sensible cross breeding help improve the health of breeds. After a few generations of careful out crossing close the stud books. rinse, wash and repeat as needed.

 

[CorvusCorax]

https://www.vdh.de/newsletter-syste...eristics-selection-programmes-cross-breeding/

This is from the German Kennel Club

 

[maisie06]

"Oslo District Court has today ruled in the trial on unethical breeding. A unanimous verdict concludes that it is contrary to the Animal Welfare Act § 25 to breed the dog breeds English bulldog and cavalier king charles spaniel in Norway today.

Dommen from Oslo District Court is now ready. Animal protection Norway, and not least the animals, is winning in all respects.


An anniversary for our dogs

After a broad hearing of the case in Oslo District Court in November, Dyrebeskyttelsen Norge today received the happy news of a full victory.

The case is carefully handled by an experienced district court judge and two co-judges who are veterinarians and geneticists, respectively. Several of the expert witnesses in the case possess the highest professional competence in their fields, and the major health problems these dogs are bred with were thoroughly elucidated.

- It is a very thorough and principled judgment , which provides important legal framework for animal breeding, says lawyer Emanuel Feinberg in the law firm Glittertind.


Cross-breeding fully possible

The judgment states, among other things, that "A conviction does not imply a ban on serious breeding of Bulldog or Cavalier, as serious and scientifically based cross-breeding could be a good alternative." In the last 50 years, there has been a rapid technological and scientific development. In Norway, we have the infrastructure and technology to be able to achieve good, scientifically based breeding work. Our dogs deserve to benefit from this development, and the way we breed dogs must be adjusted according to the time available knowledge.

- The man-made health problems of the bulldog have been known since the early 20th century. This verdict comes a long way in overtime, says Roaldset.

For many decades, sick dogs have been bred in violation of Norwegian law. What has taken place here is a systematic and organized betrayal of our four-legged friends. Today it has been confirmed that it is a crime.


The ruling clarifies the need for change

Animal protection Norway has, among other things, proposed the introduction of ID marking and the systematic use of temperament, traits, health data and kinship data in breeding.

- Without traceability and the use of databases, it is impossible for the Norwegian Food Safety Authority to conduct effective supervision of dog breeding. In 2020, the EU came up with guidelines for dog breeding, it is natural that these guidelines will be leading for all dog breeding in Norway, both for purebred dogs and for mixed breed dogs, says Roaldset.

Many European countries have similar legislation, and a similar disease burden in their dogs. We hope that this ruling can help improve the health of dogs far beyond our borders. Honestly, the campaign and the trial have reached many corners of the world.

Today's date goes in as an anniversary for our dogs. EVERYONE who loves dogs has reason to celebrate today!

- This is an anniversary for our dogs! The Animal Welfare Act is intended to protect animals from the irrational actions of humans, and it has done so today. This is about the dogs' right to feel good, says general manager and veterinarian Åshild Roaldset"

https://www.dyrebeskyttelsen.no/202...wZ0Wapr6yqudN0ATti5vKNJhswF7Q0CsriwAyI6nyV6Ds

Fantastic news - now the UK needs to follow suit, I simply cannot understand how on earht it's ethical to breed dogs which often cannot mate nor giver birth natrually without medical intervention, not to mention the myriad of health problems associated with these breeds, especially the breathing issues. I heard a lady on a radio phone in trying to justify the Bulldog, she sounded brainwashed...

 

[maisie06]

Bloody good news!
But why do people even buy them? I cannot get my head around wanting a dog that can’t even function when standing still.

Normally after some celebrity trends on social media with one....

 

[Clodagh]

Normally after some celebrity trends on social media with one....

That does seem to be a major factor in deciding in breed suitability. Or if they are used in an advert. Bizarre.