'Not as advertised'

[Equine_Dream]

I think what people fail to remember is that horses are not machines. Like us they change over time. Things that never used to worry them may do one day for one reason or another. Their likes and dislikes change. They have good moods and bad moods.
Also it always amazes me how people assume a horse will stay the same when in a completely different environment with a different routine. Again they are not machines.
For example say someone is selling a horse as a safe allrounder. Current owner rides horse most days a week, in a nice soft bit, with soft aids. Horse is safe and knows his job well.
Someone then comes along and buys horse. However this person doesn't have as much time to ride and horse is now stabled a lot more than he was in previous home.
New owner rides horse and finds him to be a bit full of it and strong. New owner is now slightly nervous to ride horse so he is left even longer without being ridden.
Someone suggests new owner tries stronger bit so new owner buys a gag. Suddenly horse who was previously used to a snaffle now has a gag in his mouth which he does not like. New owner doesnt have quite as soft hands as old owner and is accidentally tugging at horses mouth. Horse doesnt like this and starts to nap when ridden.
Suddenly safe allrounder is a bouncy napping sod, however it was certainly no fault of the old owner or the horses.

 

[elliefiz]

Sorry elliefizz, but I'm reasonably sure you are wrong in two respects.

Nothing has to be in writing, a verbal contract is equally valid, just more difficult to prove.

The horse does not have to be returned. If the horse was misdescribed and is not worth what was paid, the new owner can sell it or keep it and sue for the difference between the horse's true value and the price paid. Friends of mine sold their missold horse more than a year before they finally won in court.

Verbal contracts are very difficult to prove. I know my solicitor took on my case after reviewing all my written evidence and advised me to return the horses. On that basis I had a strong case if issue went to court. My friend had similar advice after problems with a pedigree dog that she bought and was not as described. Your friends case is unusual in comparison to the ones I have heard about, I was under the impression the horse involved in any case had to retained until a judgment was made by a court case. You learn something new every day!

 

[shadowboy]

I've got a lengthy reply via text from friend- she has been following your comments but is not registered...' The woman who bought Blue rode her quietly and took her on a hack and rode her at a venue I hired. During the hack she jumped her over logs and a small ditch. Blue behaved well and I was happy that they would be OK together. She knew I was going abroad and that's why I had her for sale- it was clearly explained in her advert. I am gutted that Blue is misbehaving as I have had her since she was three and broke her in myself. I am tempted to go an clip her for them myself with my clippers but I am based on the Welsh borders and Blue is now near Oxford so my instructor wouldn't be willing to go there. I will go and jump her for them if I do decide to go and clip her. I miss her sooooo badly but can't afford to ship her over with me. Thank you for the posts.'

 

[PollyP99]

Agree with everyone on the no refund slant! My mare refuses to take the bridle or spooks and hangs on to the bit when you take it off when she changes home, she did it when I bought her (having tacked her up with no issues during viewings) and then repeats if we change fields/yards. It's her default I'm unsettled behaviour and had I so,d her no doubt it could prove an issue as she properly refuses the bridle and at one time when up. Today if you went in hung on to her ears and shoved the bit roughly in she would not bat an eyelid,move her and she woud freak out. These are complex creatures of habit not machines as has been pointed out. I woud offer to help but that's it!

 

[SO1]

It sounds like the horse had been in the same home and possibly on the same yard for most of it's life if your friend backed the horse herself and the horse is now 15.

If the horse has been in the same home for so long and with the same person riding her most of the time it must be a huge change to be on a new yard with someone else. It probably will take a while for her to get used to being handled and ridden by another person and she may be unsettled for some time.

I don't think you can ever guarantee a horse is going to behave a certain way with new people, they can even behave differently with the same person if you move yards! My pony who I have had for 8 years suddenly decided he did not like blue and white poles the other day, I was quite surprised as he has jumped them loads of times, the stop was so unexpected that I fell off and then he would not even walk over the poles and got quite frightened. The pink jump was ok but blue ones were suddenly not ok. Funny pony not sure what was going through his head that day but he is fine again now!

If your friend knows the horse will jump coloured poles fine and has photo's proving this and has clipped the horse herself and it was easy then perhaps the horse needs time to settle into a new home or perhaps the trauma of moving to somewhere else after 12 years with your friends is proving overwhelming for the horse and it will take a long time for her to build up confidence in her new owner and may never do.

It was a shame the new owner did not jump the horse over coloured poles when she tried them.

 

[EmmasMummy]

have never had a horse be exactly the same at home as where went to try it. NEVER. 1st one was so quiet, but trampled me a week after getting her home. 2nd was the same, once he lost the weight he was sharp and badly broke my ankle but was determined to LEARN to ride him. I may have been on here a lot bleating about him, and cried a lot but learnt to eventually.
I would never have ever thought have going back to the sellers and complanined. Nothing is the same for one person as for the other. Every person has a different effect on an animal.

 

[Leo Walker]

I've owned mine since he was 2yr old and he turns into a vile pig when you move him. The last time he was running through the fencing (electric but not working properly) which is almost understandable, but he then carried on and barged the gate of the hinges! I was mortified as hes never done that before. He settled down and is back to normal now, but for a while I thought he'd lost his mind!

 

[WelshD]

As your friend is going abroad I would recommend that they nip this in the bud

Welsh boarders to Oxford is not a long way, I'd definitely go there with the £800 in my pocket and witness the situation first hand

If the situation is as they described but simply a case of miscommunication between them and the mare I'd spend a few hours trying to sort it out with them and be willing to get up and ride if necessary

If it's more complex but could be overcome I would hand over the cash (or some of it) so they can get some additional professional instruction. Has to be far less hassle in the long run though I'd get something signed to say it was a final settlement

If it can't be overcome there is always the possibility of sales livery I suppose

 

[Tiarella]

Haven't read all the posts but thought I'd add my short story...

Bought a horse from a dealer/eventer in September who's advert read lovely and sounded like just what I wanted. Viewed him, had him vetted and he came home. Was lovely the first 4 days and then turned absolutely physco. He blind bolted and vertically reared and did weird things like run from one corner of his stable to the other head butting his water bucket. Apparently he had never done any of this before but it all seemed pretty well practised - especially the vertical rears. Thankfully I managed to send him back and get the majority of my money back - did have to stand up for myself and threaten with legal action. I bought myself a nice little connie instead

 

[rachk89]

I would definitely say my horse isn't as advertised. I saw him rear with the person who was selling him (not his owner) and he has never reared with me. He also refused to work for his old owner and does anything for me. I think he settled in so well when he was moved because he was thrilled he wasn't going back to his old owner haha.

Definitely don't give money back though. She just wants some money back for nothing and is being cheap. I would go over and jump and clip the mare and go "so what's wrong exactly?"

 

[MagicMelon]

In my experience, horses are rarely exactly the same with one owner as they are with another but yes sometimes I think part of it is testing the waters with a new owner or even a new handler. Horses take time to settle, new owners take time to adjust. That bond can take several weeks/months, even a good year to nurture. It is very rare you will get a horse just hit the ground running, perfectly to a new owner with no teething problems at all.

This. But unfortunately some horsey people just don't seem to expect this, they almost think horses are machines. They simply shouldn't own horses IMO. All horses change depending on where they go, I sold one a few years ago - an opinionated horse who I had worked very hard with and he was an amazing horse if worked with correctly. I advertised him as such, even demanded he only go on a trial at first so I knew he was in the right home. He came back a few days later from one prospective home because apparently she was having massive issues with him (biting / kicking her, dragging her everywhere etc.) which he'd never done with me. He just knew that with certain people he could take the pee. The next girl to have him on trial was just 14 years old and you know what, she got on with him like a house on fire and still has him! Every horse is different, some are more testing than others. People IMO give up too easily / quickly though and dont give them time to settle.

 

[mirage]

She sounds a chancer and / or inexperienced. Horses react differently to different people and surroundings/routines. We recently took a pony on loan that I've known well for 4 years. The first time my daughter took her to PC,she fell off 4 times,2 of those were when the pony dumped her into a fence. I'd never seen her do this before,mentioned it to her owner,how was equally puzzled. Her last little loaner sent the owner a photo of all the riding club awards she'd won on said pony,and her owner asked what she'd been like when they first loaned her. Apparently she dumped her new rider numerous times, until about the 4th time she rode her, when the pony evidently decided that she was going to accept her new jockey.

My daughter has only hacked her since the dumping,as we don't have a school,but we hired one yesterday, with our regular instructor who knows both daughter and pony well,and she went like a dream.Totally different to 3 weeks earlier.

 

[Deltaflyer]

A friend of mine sold a horse that she'd had since he was a four year old. He was a laid back chap, she jumped him up to Newcomers and then sold him on as he was too laid back. Even I rode him and when it comes to anything over 15.2 I'm the biggest wuss in the world but I knew he was safe and actually enjoyed riding him.

The people who bought him after several try-outs and a full vetting contacted her months later to say he kept bucking them off. Now this horse had honestly never ever bucked in the two years my friend owned him. If he had I would never have ridden him. Transpired that these people stuffed him full of high energy feed and rode him about twice a week. He'd been used to regular work and normal feed (my friend had told them what she'd been feeding him when they bought him). They wanted my friend to take him back as he 'wasn't as advertised'. She couldn't as she'd bought another horse and she wouldn't as this was like six months after they'd bought him from her.

I know this only one example but it shows how buyers can cause issues and then blame the sellers. To balance out my post I also knew a girl who used to buy failed, totally screwed up ex-racers and try to sell them as versatile all-rounders suitable for anyone to ride.