Not feeding grass

[brighteyes]

Grass really isnt good for horses for lots of reasons. Horses are not designed to live on lush green pastures and it does cause all sorts of problems. They are grazers and browsers designed to be constantly moving and eating a wide selection of grasses etc.

There are ways of mitigating risk. Mine live on a track. I grow my biggest paddock and allow it to become standing hay. Its mainly old meadow grass. I overseed and am hoping to eradicate the rye and clover over time without spraying. This makes standing hay and is strip grazed over winter.

My track isnt surfaced so there is access to some grass on it. There diet is 60% hay and 40% grass/trees/hedges. I am very lucky to have lots of hedges and edible trees.

I have an acre that I ride in. Its got some meadow grasses but an awful lot of rye and clover. My TB is allowed in there from about now for an absolute maximum of 6 hours but more often 3. No horses go in there when the grass is flushing. Again i will keep overseeding and hoping to improve it so there is more access to it. Nothing on earth would persuade me to chuck them all out there 24/7.

Mine are all barefoot and I can see a difference in their feet if they have access to the wrong sort of grass or too much of it. I do however supplement vitamin e, and ensure they have a good source of amino acids, as those things can be missing in a diet thats limited. I also supplement copper/zinc/magnesium based balancer to mitigate the grass and hay deficiencies.

I appreciate I am very lucky to have my own place and be able to do this. But I've managed scaled down similar sort of set ups on livery.

This is me! I have to borrow sheep and monitor waitlines (two have tested +ve PPID and my TB doesn't settle once he is full. I use muzzles, bare paddocks and every other managed in/out time and try and let them live as much as possible as they are designed to. I have massive stables but it doesn't salve my conscience or anxieties much.

 

[I'm Dun]

Mine have access to the stables and its interesting to see who uses it and how much. The cob would be in there 24/7 if I brought the hay to him. The TB has to be shoe horned in. The highland tends to do his own thing, but does go in for a lay down mid afternoon. The cob and the highland would both easily stable most of the time. The TB would melt down very quickly!

 

[splashgirl45]

at one of the yards i was at the owner insisted on fertilising the grass every year. it made it much too lush and she made us rotate the fields to eat the grass down. i would just get mine to a good weight and YO would say we had to move fields and so the battle began again which meant i had to ride every day to keep her from ballooning. really annoying...the only advantage was we always had good grass cover in winter and the fields didnt get boggy..

 

[Tarragon]

Technically, though, isn't hay just grass? The only difference is that you can choose to buy your hay from different sources so you can be more picky about what sort of grass it was made from, the quantity you feed and it allows you to avoid the more vigorous spring grasses to level out the potency over the year. if you just allow horses to graze you are restricted to the sort of grass and grazing your field offers, which may or may not be appropriate, and it is always changing!
I can see the advantage of a track system with no or very little grazing and scattered feeding stations with the right sort hay allows someone to precisely control the feed intake of their horse or pony while maximising movement. Though to be honest, the same could be said of a stabled horse kept in hard work!
I do keep my two ponies out all the time and manage their grazing on the basis of "maximum space possible with just enough grass to make them hungry for hay". So, a ten acre field in the winter, heavily grazed by sheep, so not much grass, going to several joined small well-grazed fields at this time of year which amounts to a couple of acres. Spring is always a worry; getting the timing right so they are off the winter field and grazing the summer fields down so spring grass doesn't get ahead of us, and then varying the number of summer fields available based on how much grass. It is a worrying time and it has taken me a few years to be able to get the judgement about right. If they were not on grass, this problem would just not exist.

 

[SussexbytheXmasTree]

There are a lot of countries where grass is sparse or non-existent for grazing. I wouldn’t be too worried about not having plentiful grass especially in summer but I would not like too restricted a space to move around.

However, like anything we do with horses it’s not “natural” and most people just do their best with what they have. If you follow any of the wild herds (I follow Chasing Horses and Snowy River Brumbies) it’s not always a happy life. From droughts to fires, harsh winters, death in birth, broken limbs and of course man trying to destroy them and their habitats. Our horses are pretty safe, happy and well cared for in the main.

 

[Sossigpoker]

I've recently come across a couple of knowledgeable people whose horses are not laminitic or overweight but who do not ever get grass. They are kept in pens and fed hay/haylage. They have grazing but horses do not go on the grass - ever. The belief seems to be that grass is fundamentally bad for horses and causes all sorts of other issues beyond weight and laminitis. Is grass really the "enemy"? Anyone else do this?

Fertilised dairy grass probably is quite bad for them. But not all grass.
But there are horses that are severely affected by grass and do better without it or not very much of it.

 

[ihatework]

For me it’s not completely about the lack of grass, it’s about the lack of freedom - most all weather set ups are small pens, not much better than a stable.

If we were in an arid dry country but still had decent turnout variety, then I have no issue with lack of grass and supplementing with hay. Some of these really well set up track systems are also super.

But if that is not available then stopping turnout/grass intake on an otherwise fit and healthy animal is poor form imo. Passable if the horse is in a high level of work, but really doesn’t apply to most leisure horses in this country.

I actually put a very much loved 20yo cushings horse down because he couldn’t tolerate grass any more and I refused to curtail his quality of life to the extent required.

 

[windand rain]

As above hay is grass personally I cannmot get my head round feeding hay ever. Hay is dried grass drying it makes it richer and less suited to horses even meadow hay. Very few people have hay analysed and hardly any analyse grass in its fully green state as merely picking it to send away changes it. Horses are fat now underworked and overheated its not the green stuff hurting them its modern management, round bales in fields are the work of the devil. Horses stand without moving for hours before walking a few yards then they stand in stables near a haynet or haybar all night. If lucky they will be ridden in a few circles in a damaging arena when their joints ligaments and tendons are unconditioned as they daily move less than a few yards no wonder so many have limb injuries. In this instance racehorses get a better deal than domestic pets as at least they get conditioning exercise. There are again not many happy hackers that ride a good 10 miles a day for six days a week especially in winter as most work and daylight limits. So I will continue to provide green growing grass, grass nuts, grass chaff, and oat straw and little or no hay for as long as it lasts. will maybe provide a slice/1.5kg of hay each in March before the new grass comes in Spring. Willing to listen to peoples point if they can tell me why they think hay is better than grass and if they truly know why by data not anecdote.

 

[Not_so_brave_anymore]

As above hay is grass personally I cannmot get my head round feeding hay ever. Hay is dried grass drying it makes it richer and less suited to horses even meadow hay. Very few people have hay analysed and hardly any analyse grass in its fully green state as merely picking it to send away changes it. Horses are fat now underworked and overheated its not the green stuff hurting them its modern management, round bales in fields are the work of the devil. Horses stand without moving for hours before walking a few yards then they stand in stables near a haynet or haybar all night. If lucky they will be ridden in a few circles in a damaging arena when their joints ligaments and tendons are unconditioned as they daily move less than a few yards no wonder so many have limb injuries. In this instance racehorses get a better deal than domestic pets as at least they get conditioning exercise. There are again not many happy hackers that ride a good 10 miles a day for six days a week especially in winter as most work and daylight limits. So I will continue to provide green growing grass, grass nuts, grass chaff, and oat straw and little or no hay for as long as it lasts. will maybe provide a slice/1.5kg of hay each in March before the new grass comes in Spring. Willing to listen to peoples point if they can tell me why they think hay is better than grass and if they truly know why by data not anecdote.

Well, hay is cut at a height so as to be almost all stalk and hardly of the actively growing part of the leaf. And the volume can be much more easily controlled than with growing grass.

I absolutely agree with you as to horse management- it sounds like you're doing a great job. But I have a pony who is so grass sensitive that even nibbling the grass under the electric fence tips her over the edge (she's not really overweight but definitely not lean, probably 3.5/5). I couldn't figure out why I couldn't quite get her 100% "right", but once I added a fourth strand of electric tape right down low, and she really was getting only hay and not any grass at all, she finally came completely sound. Fwiw I scatter the hay around to try and mimic grazing (but then I do worry about contamination from wet hay directly on the floor. But like you, I can't bare to see them stand still at a net 20 hours a day)

(sorry, I know you didn't want anecdotes!)

 

[Leam_Carrie]

Theres lots of info out there. I am doing mine by overseeding with old meadow grass species, fertlising with well rotted manure and constantly cutting down docks and nettles. Its waist high with meadow grasses in parts now, but I reckon it will take a couple of years to get it right. It was pretty horse sick when I took it on, and I'm not sure if that made it easier or harder. Spraying would speed things up, but I'm trying to avoid this. I think there are some areas that will just end up nuked with species specific spray in the end, but it will be the edges and yard area rather than the grazing areas.

Does fertilising with well rotted manure help? I have old pasture, which seems to be low fat! It needs a bit of help, so could definitely spread my muck heap.

 

[windand rain]

Does fertilising with well rotted manure help? I have old pasture, which seems to be low fat! It needs a bit of help, so could definitely spread my muck heap.

Cross grazing with sheep is probably a better way to fertilise soil but a very well rotted manure heap might be okay if not too richly filled with bedding and wee

 

[I'm Dun]

Does fertilising with well rotted manure help? I have old pasture, which seems to be low fat! It needs a bit of help, so could definitely spread my muck heap.

yes. There is a really good page for advice on land management thats worth joining if you use facebook

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1890362961227996

 

[I'm Dun]

Technically, though, isn't hay just grass? The only difference is that you can choose to buy your hay from different sources so you can be more picky about what sort of grass it was made from, the quantity you feed and it allows you to avoid the more vigorous spring grasses to level out the potency over the year. if you just allow horses to graze you are restricted to the sort of grass and grazing your field offers, which may or may not be appropriate, and it is always changing!

That makes an enormous difference though. I have no issue with mine eating older hay length meadow grass, which is effectively standing hay. I actively grow it to use in the winter.

I can see the advantage of a track system with no or very little grazing and scattered feeding stations with the right sort hay allows someone to precisely control the feed intake of their horse or pony while maximising movement. Though to be honest, the same could be said of a stabled horse kept in hard work!

There is absolutely no comparison between horses out on a track and a stabled horse in hard work. Even taking out the issues with stabling 24/7, mine cover miles going round the track, and its constant steady movement. They tend to move for a couple of hours then stop for a nap and repeat day and night. A stabled horse in hard work does much, much shorter bursts of intense activity, then spends most of the time standing in one spot.

I'm not anti stabling and have part stabled a lot previously, but the difference with horses out on a track and horses in 24/7 is huge.

 

[Leam_Carrie]

Cross grazing with sheep is probably a better way to fertilise soil but a very well rotted manure heap might be okay if not too richly filled with bedding and wee

Thanks. Used to have some sheep, which were fab. There’s no bedding in it as they live out and put the stuff from the shelter separately.

 

[Leam_Carrie]

yes. There is a really good page for advice on land management thats worth joining if you use facebook

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1890362961227996

Fab, will join