Nothing against crossbreeds but..

echodomino

echodomino

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Have just out nosiness been scouting Epupz at the Jack Russell Terriers for sale and find it sad that there are more Jack crosses for sale than actual Jacks.

Sorry pointless post really
 
It all comes back to that responsible breeding thing doesnt it? Which is why I have said no to a couple of people asking to borrow my JRT! Also why I spayed my female cross as soon as I could. After being a member on here now for a while I feel even more strongly about it. :)
 
The latest most pointless cross to date yesterday is Lab x Husky..why?? Meanwhile in the quest to breed big potentially dangerous dogs ..in yesterday`s Countrymans were two litters of various blends of CaneCorso/Bullmastiff/Am Bulldog/Neo Mastiff and Boerboel. Described as "gamekeepers dogs",presumably big dangerous and loose at night.Lovely.
 
EAST KENT said:
The latest most pointless cross to date yesterday is Lab x Husky..why?? Meanwhile in the quest to breed big potentially dangerous dogs ..in yesterday`s Countrymans were two litters of various blends of CaneCorso/Bullmastiff/Am Bulldog/Neo Mastiff and Boerboel. Described as "gamekeepers dogs",presumably big dangerous and loose at night.Lovely.
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When I was looking for a large dog I did a lot of research on the Boerboal and some of the breeders will have you believe they are pussycats but I spoke to a vet who was south african and knew the breed well. He said they are bred as guard dogs and need a lot of careful handling so not for the faint hearted. Their sheer size means you cannot afford for anything to go wrong and they in the main are one handler dogs.

I opted for a bullmastiff and as a guard dog she is bloomin useless. She'd invite you in for a cup of tea rather than see you off. Soppiest dog i've ever come across but again a breed when doing my research need careful handling so my thinking is these breeds are fine if you put the research time and effort into training them into honorable citizens and if you're not prepared to do that steer well clear.

FWIW i'd don't have an aversion to sensible crosses and when I was a kid we had a fabulous GSD / lab but the trouble is these days its always about earning a quick buck, mistake when dog gets out and puppies aren't assured of good homes before breeding.


Ps I really get the stealth bit. BM's were bred for gamekeepers and my girl can creep up behind me and i'd never know. Odd for such a big bouncy dog.
 
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BBH said:
FWIW i'd don't have an aversion to sensible crosses and when I was a kid we had a fabulous GSD / lab but the trouble is these days its always about earning a quick buck, mistake when dog gets out and puppies aren't assured of good homes before breeding.
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No me neither, they have Patterdale x JRT on there but listed as from a working home for working dogs, or something seemingly sensible like BT x JRT. So I don't have a problem with that, it was Pug x JRT, Poodle x JRT, Lhasa Apso x JRT, Bichon Frise x JRT or 1/4 JRT 3/4 Pug x Pug and the two that got me most GSD!! x JRT and the JRT x something with 4 breeds in it - I can't find the ad now!


EAST KENT said:
Meanwhile in the quest to breed big potentially dangerous dogs ..in yesterday`s Countrymans were two litters of various blends of CaneCorso/Bullmastiff/Am Bulldog/Neo Mastiff and Boerboel. Described as "gamekeepers dogs",presumably big dangerous and loose at night.Lovely.
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I love Am Bulldogs, the lady I bought Paddy from has 1 (2 now) he's gorgeous, but nuts! A friend has a CaneCorso, she's lovely with people but not always with other dogs and I've never heard of a Boerboel. Can't imagine either way that it'd be safe to breed a bunch of big strong dogs together.
 
All dogs are mostly ok in the right homes; the latest huge fighting/guarding breed to enter our crowded little island is the "bullykutta"..google it ,and be aware these are now in our country and being bred ,what for I can only imagine :eek:
 
MardyMare said:
It all comes back to that responsible breeding thing doesnt it? Which is why I have said no to a couple of people asking to borrow my JRT! Also why I spayed my female cross as soon as I could. After being a member on here now for a while I feel even more strongly about it. :)
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I let Jim cover 2 well put together JRT bitches before he was castrated (he was getting a bit slap happy about where he cocked his leg!) but I wouldn't have let him cover anything else.

I've just put Mouse in whelp, if she's taken, to a JRT, but a few times I've had people say "you ought to put her to a *whatever*" err let me think ......... NO!


EAST KENT said:
All dogs are mostly ok in the right homes; the latest huge fighting/guarding breed to enter our crowded little island is the "bullykutta"..google it ,and be aware these are now in our country and being bred ,what for I can only imagine :eek:
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I'm not having much luck with that, is it a BM x Akita? I found this http://pik-blogger.blogspot.com/2010/06/blog-post.html , there's 2 that are definitely just photoshopped (you'll see which) and I mean no disrespect to America/Americans but it looks to me like that's where this "trend" has come from, like the Labradoodle - it's recognised by the AKC or is it UKC?
 
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Missed my editing time, wanted to add: found a website, off of a photo on the link above and someone's breeding Pitbulls that are more like Bulldogs but in an unhealthy looking way - you have to see it but I'm not posting the link because it's someone's kennel, there's a pic of one on the link above though, you will know which one I mean! This pic is a litter from 2 of their dogs and I couldn't get over how they vary in size/shape for saying they're all the same litter
pic5_blue_pitbull_puppy_xgau.jpg


Sorry didn't know it was so big and don't know how to resize it without saving it to my computer
 
echodomino said:
I let Jim cover 2 well put together JRT bitches before he was castrated (he was getting a bit slap happy about where he cocked his leg!) but I wouldn't have let him cover anything else.

I've just put Mouse in whelp, if she's taken, to a JRT, but a few times I've had people say "you ought to put her to a *whatever*" err let me think ......... NO!


I hope you didnt think I meant you :) I meant people in general just wanting to breed their own little fluffy. You know what you are doing - I dont and neither did the friends who asked me. What is Mouse ? :)
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I'm not having much luck with that, is it a BM x Akita? I found this http://pik-blogger.blogspot.com/2010/06/blog-post.html , there's 2 that are definitely just photoshopped (you'll see which) and I mean no disrespect to America/Americans but it looks to me like that's where this "trend" has come from, like the Labradoodle - it's recognised by the AKC or is it UKC?[/QUOTE]

Not recognized by the AKC in american. In Australia where the "breed" started it is recognized.
 
echodomino said:
Missed my editing time, wanted to add: found a website, off of a photo on the link above and someone's breeding Pitbulls that are more like Bulldogs but in an unhealthy looking way - you have to see it but I'm not posting the link because it's someone's kennel, there's a pic of one on the link above though, you will know which one I mean! This pic is a litter from 2 of their dogs and I couldn't get over how they vary in size/shape for saying they're all the same litter
pic5_blue_pitbull_puppy_xgau.jpg


Sorry didn't know it was so big and don't know how to resize it without saving it to my computer
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Pitbulls are Americas staffies they are massively over bred and real pitbull is a very rare site.

These make me sick whenever i see them:
http://mrpitbull.com/males.html

The name for these types of dogs is American bully.
 
Yes crossbreeds used to be the result of an accident or irresponbility, but the result was not planned, I have a wonderful 'labramation' as a result of an accident at a kennels one night!!

But nowadays it is all planned with money at the heart of it, no longer do people need to buy the best of a breed to get the money for breeding it, they can put a dog of any breed (regardless of it's quality) to another with the intention of the product looking cute or hard and not bother about health checks, hip scores, eye tests etc etc. temperament suitability etc etc......

With dangerous dog problems escalating by the day it seems, what is the solution?? Police are certainly clamping down on what could be considered pit type etc and are seising left right and centre but this does not solve the problem at it's heart.

I wonder if compulsory microchipping (as we now have with horses) should be extended to dogs and it recorded who bred the dog, therefore every dog would have a link to those who bred it, leaving some responsibility with the breeder for the rest of that dogs life??????
 
competitiondiva said:
Yes crossbreeds used to be the result of an accident or irresponbility, but the result was not planned, I have a wonderful 'labramation' as a result of an accident at a kennels one night!!

But nowadays it is all planned with money at the heart of it, no longer do people need to buy the best of a breed to get the money for breeding it, they can put a dog of any breed (regardless of it's quality) to another with the intention of the product looking cute or hard and not bother about health checks, hip scores, eye tests etc etc. temperament suitability etc etc......

With dangerous dog problems escalating by the day it seems, what is the solution?? Police are certainly clamping down on what could be considered pit type etc and are seising left right and centre but this does not solve the problem at it's heart.

I wonder if compulsory microchipping (as we now have with horses) should be extended to dogs and it recorded who bred the dog, therefore every dog would have a link to those who bred it, leaving some responsibility with the breeder for the rest of that dogs life??????
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Responsible breeders already do this. But how would you go about enforcing it?
Its like the licencing here it just doesn't work.
 
katielou said:
Responsible breeders already do this. But how would you go about enforcing it?
Its like the licencing here it just doesn't work.
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It could be as simple as any advert for puppies is investigated, a dog warden attends and checks for chips, if not done, they do it on site there and then at the expense of the owner/breeder????????
 
It's about incentivisation and education. I was corrected when I said one of the aims of our organisation is to eradicate irresponsible breeding - you can never eradicate it.

You can educate puppy buyers on where and on what they can spend their money - £££ on an unknown when you could have got the same at a rescue centre or £££ on a dog with relevant good health results, responsibly bred, with lifetime backup, parents and relatives shown or worked, even lightly right up to top titles, to prove they are good examples of their breed.

The only way to hit shysters is in the pocket and while people keep funding them, why the hell would they stop breeding?

There will always be people who are too ready to splash the cash because they want THIS dog RIGHT NOW and they will be beyond help.

Where would YOU rather your money went? On cars, conservatories, etc or back into the dogs themselves?

Remember, the KC needs to make money too - if they crack down on all breeders too harshly, they risk losing a lot of their revenue .

Microchipping horses is not a panacea either.
 
I totally agree about educating the public, but there are certain elements that 'won't be educated' they want the biggest, baddest dog and to hell with the consequences, these dogs need to have tighter controls on who breeds them and those that do should be held responsible for where the dogs end up to an extent, compulsory chipping might just make them back up for a minute and think.......

With regard to cost, we already have dog wardens and them checking chips/microchipping puppies will be self funding, as the cost would be met by the breeder.
 
Well the DDA hasn't worked (Non banned dogs have killed people. Dogs get lifted on the way they look, not their potential for harm. There are plenty of ads for red-nosed Irish staffs etc) they don't give a toss about KC registration or dog wardens or microchips and associated penalties...what ARE the consequences? What can ANYBODY do? When the price of one pup will outweigh whatever fine is imposed?

Responsible people will be penalised and the hooky people will continue to evade the law, as they do in every other walk of life. I just don't know what the answer is.
 
Katielou, I've found your first 2 post very informative, I didn't realise that about Labradoodles - I made a wrong assumption based on where I first saw them, on an American breeders website.

And I had no idea about Pitbulls, American Bullys - not keen on the Bullys after seeing those photos, maybe they were just not good examples? Dunno.

competitiondiva said:
Yes crossbreeds used to be the result of an accident or irresponbility, but the result was not planned, I have a wonderful 'labramation' as a result of an accident at a kennels one night!!
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I have nothing against crossbreeds, I grew up with a Staffi x and she was a fantastic dog. The post has kind of spiralled, partly my fault for wandering off topic slightly (I'm good at that!!) All I was saying was that I found it sad there were more JRT crosses for sale than actual JRTs.

MardyMare said:
I hope you didnt think I meant you :) I meant people in general just wanting to breed their own little fluffy. You know what you are doing - I dont and neither did the friends who asked me. What is Mouse ? :)
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No of course I didn't :p I was just adding on to what you'd said :) She's a JRT x BT x GSD x Collie x Chihuahua ............ just kidding she's a JRT :D
 
Whilst I see what your saying CC how would responsible people be peanalised by compulsory chipping, surely this is a good thing, and a part of reponsible ownership?????? Any legally docked dog has to be chipped now, so why not make it all dogs, it would help the stray dog issue, give traceability to all dogs and help to make breeders think for a minute??

It's not even terribly expensive nowadays, most vets have started charging £15 or less!! And having a litter done in one go, I'm sure there'd be discount available!!
 
echodomino said:
Katielou, I've found your first 2 post very informative, I didn't realise that about Labradoodles - I made a wrong assumption based on where I first saw them, on an American breeders website.

And I had no idea about Pitbulls, American Bullys - not keen on the Bullys after seeing those photos, maybe they were just not good examples? Dunno.



I have nothing against crossbreeds, I grew up with a Staffi x and she was a fantastic dog. The post has kind of spiralled, partly my fault for wandering off topic slightly (I'm good at that!!) All I was saying was that I found it sad there were more JRT crosses for sale than actual JRTs.



No of course I didn't :p I was just adding on to what you'd said :) She's a JRT x BT x GSD x Collie x Chihuahua ............ just kidding she's a JRT :D
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American bullies are awful awful dogs. They are pitbulls bred wrong by gangsters. There is not such breed but american bully is the nickname that the hippo mutants have taken on.
 
But what is a JRT? Aren't they a type or a mix? There is such a difference in sizes, colours, coat types, earsets, conformation.
Aside from the Parsons, there is no solid breed standard/database.
Not meaning to be contentious, just asking :)
And having said that, there is a lot of variety in sheps too :p
 
competitiondiva said:
Whilst I see what your saying CC how would responsible people be peanalised by compulsory chipping, surely this is a good thing, and a part of reponsible ownership?????? Any legally docked dog has to be chipped now, so why not make it all dogs, it would help the stray dog issue, give traceability to all dogs and help to make breeders think for a minute??

It's not even terribly expensive nowadays, most vets have started charging £15 or less!! And having a litter done in one go, I'm sure there'd be discount available!!
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I still don't see what it would achieve, sorry, microchipping/passporting horses has not stopped dodgy dealers either :(
Licensing doesn't work either. Bella masqueraded as a dead dog for a year, she may have been an unmitigated killer, but no one checked.
All mine are microchipped, tatooed and DNA'd by the way, as I think all dogs should be, but realistically, I know not everybody, especially the more shady characters in life, is going to do that for the good of dogs and for society.
 
CaveCanem said:
But what is a JRT? Aren't they a type or a mix? There is such a difference in sizes, colours, coat types, earsets, conformation.
Aside from the Parsons, there is no solid breed standard/database.
Not meaning to be contentious, just asking :)
And having said that, there is a lot of variety in sheps too :p
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Do you know that's a very good question!! I honestly don't know how to answer that one!! With the exception of my opinion that they are a breed that do have a type (does that make sense I don't know how to explain what I mean!!) and as with all breeds, are made of a mix of other Terriers - apparently if you add something in then breed it true for 5 gens that makes it back as a purebred, don't know the whole truth to that without researching in depth which I can't be bothered with lol.

There is actually a JRT Club of GB where short legged JRTs can be registered to the "traditional" JRT standard, where that comes from I have no idea. It would be like saying what comes first? The Parson or the JRT?? I do know that the Parson Russell Terrier used to be the Parson Jack Russell Terrier and they dropped the "Jack" because they didn't want to be associated with the "traditional" short legged JRT and that the KC won't register the short legged JRT because of how much it varies.

ETA: I know that my JRTs are JRT type (perhaps something somewhere behind them that produces the solid colours which are becoming more acceptable and more common) so I'm only going to breed them to JRT type JRTs lol :p :D

And I didn't think you were being contentious!! :D

katielou said:
American bullies are awful awful dogs. They are pitbulls bred wrong by gangsters. There is not such breed but american bully is the nickname that the hippo mutants have taken on.
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I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks that! They just don't look right.
 
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This takes me back to 2000 when on the school bus my much hated cousin spouted off to everyone that her daddy had just bought her a pedigree parson jack russell terrier for £1000 and me just peeing myself laughing, the thing is still alive today and the most pig ugly excuse for a terrier i have seen in my life.

A friend is breeding 'Jugs' at the moment and reckons they sell fantastically because they stay very stunted and remain puppylike in appearance.. am i the only person who thinks that is not a good thing.

We breed our dogs for purpose, most go to friends of ours who will work the dog. They are earthdogs bred by gamekeepers for gamekeepers and are bloody good stamps of dogs, the same goes for when we put the spaniel in pup, crossing an outstanding cocker dog with an enthusiastic versatile and intelligent springer bitch to create excellent working lines (we have 3 generations of their pups and by golly they are fab)

I believe the way we have bred them is responsible to a point, each litter has already been sold before the bitch has been put into pup, to appropriate knowledgeable homes, and if at any point i had felt the stamp of dogs we were producing was at all defective then we would have stopped after the first litter. that also goes with regard to rehoming too. i dont breed to make money.

As for microchips, its an all to sad fact that a microchip will not save your dog from being stolen and is extremely easy to locate and remove.
 
PerdixPerdix said:
A friend is breeding 'Jugs' at the moment and reckons they sell fantastically because they stay very stunted and remain puppylike in appearance.. am i the only person who thinks that is not a good thing.
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No you're not, I don't think it's a good thing, I also don't think they're a good combination.

We breed our dogs for purpose, most go to friends of ours who will work the dog. They are earthdogs bred by gamekeepers for gamekeepers and are bloody good stamps of dogs, the same goes for when we put the spaniel in pup, crossing an outstanding cocker dog with an enthusiastic versatile and intelligent springer bitch to create excellent working lines (we have 3 generations of their pups and by golly they are fab)

I believe the way we have bred them is responsible to a point, each litter has already been sold before the bitch has been put into pup, to appropriate knowledgeable homes, and if at any point i had felt the stamp of dogs we were producing was at all defective then we would have stopped after the first litter. that also goes with regard to rehoming too. i dont breed to make money.
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I don't have a prob with sensible crosses like Springer x Cocker or JRT x Border T, especially with a purpose like working, I don't have a prob with crossbreeds at all - I grew up with one and she was smashing!! I just thought as a breeder of JRTs (on my 2nd gen).

I breed my JRTs to the type I like and have kept dogs from working stock in my lines - my first JRT was from a litter by/out of 2 working farm dogs and the dogs I've used on my bitches have been working dogs. The litter I'm hoping for this time was to another agility Jack (I compete Mouse) the idea being that as he's got the temperament for it, as has Moo, that that will reproduce in the puppies. I too have homes lined up before hand.

I just don't see what the purpose of a Jack x Pug or Chi or Shih Tzu is?? But as I said, that wasn't actually my original point lol
 
echodomino said:
No you're not, I don't think it's a good thing, I also don't think they're a good combination.

I just don't see what the purpose of a Jack x Pug or Chi or Shih Tzu is?? But as I said, that wasn't actually my original point lol
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Nor do I, and this trend of pointless mixing does come from America. I've been here nearly nine years, and the pet stores in New York started churning out mixes way before I saw evidence of it in England. Peke-a-Poos, Puggles, Jugs, Bugs--I've seen 'em all. They sell for between $1k and $2k and people are happy to pay the money, largely because the pet stores feed customers nonsense about "hybrid vigour", less shedding, better temperaments etc. The trend has definitely reached English shores, though. At last year's Badminton, I saw two puggles.
 
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