Numpties shouldn't be allowed to school

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TeamTotilas

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I'm sick of seeing complete amateurs trying to school their horses and doing more harm than good. My boss has had some youngsters at an event this weekend, and when I was watching her fellow competitors in the BE100, I was horrified. Seeing horses getting socked in the mouths as they're being forced into false outlines is just horrific. I think some people are actually inflicting injuries onto their horses just by riding them, especially back injuries. I think that at events the stewards should tell terrible riders to go home. Fair enough everyone has to start somewhere, but that's for pony club and riding schools. I'm all for happy hacking if that's your thing, but don't school or jump unless your actually capable....... or willing to have plenty of lessons with an accredited trainer.
 
Well it's not pleasant to see a horse ridden less well than it should, but to be honest everyone has to start somewhere. I have as many lessons as I can afford and still ride like a sack of potatoes but unless I do it, how am I to learn?

I think the trick is to find a horse that is willing, accommodating and can help out when you make a mistake so that you can learn from him.

P.S. Hacking is bloody tough and dangerous to boot!
 
jeez chill, I think there are worse things to worry about. We can't all be fab otherwise pros wouldn't make any money and most of us have lovely forgiving horses/ponies that forgive us our mistakes and we learn by them. I have learnt more having my own than I did in years in a riding school by having the opportunity to improve one particular horse.

You'd have hated me at the start though, I was very much a head waggler but we have got over that.
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Me and pone our both wonky, and am sure we are responsible for putting eachother out which is why I just make sure we get treated at the same time.

but doesn't a better schooled horse make a much nicer hacker, its all intertwined. Nothing worse than having a poorly schooled horse out on the roads IMO.

edt to say there are things worse but was just making a point.
 
I'm just saying that I feel sorry for these "willing, accomodating" horses and ponies that I've seen enduring great discomfort due to poor riding. I don't think that it should be underestimated. I also think that there is a huge difference between being an ineffective, bad rider, in which a person rides with poor technique but is quiet enough to be harmless to the horse, and a cruel bad rider, that tries to do more than they are capable of, ultimately hurting their animal. I think that if a human was socked in the teeth repeatedly with a piece of metal and/or beaten with a whip that would be considered torture...Although saying that, I'm being a hypocrite because I don't consider humans and horses on equal terms.
 
Why would a happy hacker be any less able to school than any other discipline. When was the last time you had joyriders pipping their horn and shouting at you when competing at a event . Hacking can take skill, we are not all novices numpties. : )
 
Does this come back to the system used in other countries where riders need a licence to compete, ie the rider has to do an exam before being allowed to a competition. IMO i think this may be a good idea, especially if you want to compete affilated (i like the idea of having to be approved by a BE accredited trainer before being able to affiliate, then the rider must get a certain number of qualifying runs at each level before thay can move up, similar to the system currently in place for teenagers wanting to do BE). Ultimatly though it is the riders responsiblty to ensure that they are at the level required, but does it come down to a lack of volunteers/officials willing to tell a rider they are not at the level required? I don't think the rider over estimating their ability will be too keen to hear from a volunteer/official that they are not considered to be at the level????? I think what a rider does at home schooling wise is up to them, and whilst not fair on the horse involved hopefully they will learn from their mistakes, which IMO is the best way to learn, and we have all had to start somewhere!!!
 
I'm not saying that every happy hacker is a novice numpty...I'm just saying it unsettles me to see numpties schooling their horses in an improper way that is cruel. I have to do most of the fitness work for the eventer that I groom for so I do a great deal of hacking, which I don't feel requires a great deal of skill, but then again we are lucky to be in the heart of the countryside with very little traffic, I can see how it may take be quite a challenge if you were on busy roads though.
 
Charlimouse, I 100% agree with your point that you should have a licence to compete. This system is implemented in Germany among other countries, I believe.
 
Hang on, I'm a bit confused by this. Are you talking about 'amateurs' training horses themselves, or just riding them and being trained by someone else? Do you think pony club or riding school horses are fine to be badly ridden, but 'competition' horses aren't? D'you think jumping doesn't take place in pony club or at riding schools?

I'd be delighted to hear how you think 'amateurs' should practice jumping without actually jumping. Or perhaps non-professional horse owners shouldn't be allowed to jump unless an instructor is present?
 
There have been plenty of debates on here about professional riders being less than nice to their horses, but im sure they would pass a riding test to compete, how do you deal with these riders?
 
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Hang on, I'm a bit confused by this. Are you talking about 'amateurs' training horses themselves, or just riding them and being trained by someone else? Do you think pony club or riding school horses are fine to be badly ridden, but 'competition' horses aren't? D'you think jumping doesn't take place in pony club or at riding schools?

I'd be delighted to hear how you think 'amateurs' should practice jumping without actually jumping. Or perhaps non-professional horse owners shouldn't be allowed to jump unless an instructor is present?

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^^^^ what she said. I actually find this post quite insulting. Everyone has to start somewhere, as above suggests, OP obviously thinks its acceptable to be, in her words 'cruel' to horses/ponies up to a certain level
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I,m in the middle of a very busy town and to get to any decent off road riding you have to start off on main roads, we meet artic lorries buses and skip wagons rattling their chains and thats without the idiots who shout horses should not be on the roads. Trust me this can take skill and total trust in your horse. What i got from your post was that happy hackers are more likely to be the "numpties" who are ragging their horses about. Which made me sad : (
 
I think some of the blame for "socking horse in the mouth" and sawing has to be put in the lap of the lower level judges and poor instructors (obviously i don't tar everybody with the same brush there are just a select few!) Someone i know went to a dressage competition the other day and rode a prelim test i happen to know that she rides her horse so behind the vertical that his nose is practically on his chest and her hands sawing away on her knees! She showed me her score sheet and the judge had written comments such as, nice bend, good rythm and her final comment was nicely ridden needs to go a bit more forward at times from the leg!!! She was chuffed to bits with her score and continued to saw away saying "i think i'm going to wear spurs to get a little more impulsion" AAAAAAAAAAAA give me strength!
 
In response to ester, I would have to think about that because I don't attend unaffiliated events of any sort so I can't say that I could have a properly educated opinion on that matter, although I do understand your point. What I mean though is that I can't believe some people are actually allowed to be affiliated, because surely that is where the good riders should be. I think it should be down to riders instructors and event officials to inform riders on whether they should be allowed to ride at a certain level.
In response to Pookie, I think that if someone is new to jumping and wants to learn it on their horse, then yes they should have an approved instructor with them for the most part. And lots of pole work should be done before leaving the ground, building up in height so the rider does not pick up bad habits. Although in my experience it's not the jumping that I find the most offensive, although I do see some horrific jumping going on. I think it's the basics, the flatwork, which is the basis for everything else anyway. I think that riders should be able to aim for a level of proficiency, in that they are not causing any damage to their horses by riding them (which sounds obvious anyway but is clearly not), before they compete.
 
I do not suggest that you should be cruel up to any level. My hope is that in riding schools the instructors are proficient enough to prevent cruelty from happening in the first place. Before riders are left to their own devices.
 
We all need inspiration, from the bottom to the top even the best aspire to be better.

Tbh I watch some of the 'top' riders in their field and think exactly the same. Professionals are the worst as their egos overtake their ability.

Perhaps this is a calling to teach if you feel so passionate
 
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I'm not saying that every happy hacker is a novice numpty...I'm just saying it unsettles me to see numpties schooling their horses in an improper way that is cruel.

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I have to agree, its all to 'in my face here', but iam trying to wear 'blinkers and blindfolds' and i have to zip my lips before I blow!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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Numpties shouldn't be allowed to post inflammatory codswallop on the HHO forum either, but sadly they are quite entitled to do so
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Did you check with you're instructor before you posted that remark?
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The debate on Totilas is a whole other issue, and my name clearly stems from the fact that I am on the "team" of Edward Gal and am strongly against the criticism that he has received, I think he is just the best horse there has ever been. My primary interest is in eventing but this horse inspires me in my favourite phase.
I agree that some riders competing at a high level do inflict cruelty upon their horses, but I do not find that these riders that I have seen do this, or have been told do these, reach levels as high as the ones who are not, which is indicative of their behaviour, and foolish on their part, as they are clearly not acheiving the desired effect.
This should be enough to put them off. And I don't know about other disciplines but British Eventing notes cruelty, ie "excessive use of the whip/spurs" And fines riders and puts them on the discipline list.
 
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Numpties shouldn't be allowed to post inflammatory codswallop on the HHO forum either, but sadly they are quite entitled to do so
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Did you check with you're instructor before you posted that remark?
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Unfortunately she isnt online at the moment HorseyScot so I wasnt able to
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I will text her before posting next time
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my horse is a willing boy at six and ive only really learned to properly ride since i got him i could ride before had broken in but never shcooled a horse before i get lessons with a dressage instructor oncce a week to move him on forward and everyone has to start somewhere riding schools cannot teach you how to be prepared for your own horse all they are interested in is making money trust me i used to work at one so maybe some people who school there horses haul them about but it isnt everyone.
 
I'm a numpty, I try to school my 14 year old and I don't do him any harm. I think its a rash generalisation to say numpties shouldnt school their horses.
 
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In response to Pookie, I think that if someone is new to jumping and wants to learn it on their horse, then yes they should have an approved instructor with them for the most part. And lots of pole work should be done before leaving the ground, building up in height so the rider does not pick up bad habits. Although in my experience it's not the jumping that I find the most offensive, although I do see some horrific jumping going on. I think it's the basics, the flatwork, which is the basis for everything else anyway. I think that riders should be able to aim for a level of proficiency, in that they are not causing any damage to their horses by riding them (which sounds obvious anyway but is clearly not), before they compete.

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But, you see, again you're implying that only in competition does it matter whether you're an atrocious rider or not. As if only competition horses deserve sensitive treatment. Clearly this is biased and unfair on non-competition horses.

I asked if amateurs (i.e. not 'professional' riders) should have to have an instructor present for jumping on their own horse. Not complete beginners, not people who haven't a clue about riding, just amateurs. You are correct that mastering the basics is essential before moving onto anything more complicated (for rider or horse), but the implications in your OP were that only competition horses deserve or require good riding and that amateurs shouldn't be allowed to jump without an instructor.

As has been mentioned, there's a fair bit of debate over just how sensitive, kind and well-mannered professional riders are to their horses. I abhor seeing rough-handed riding on any horse, but it should be more forgiven in an 'amateur' than in a professional. Being a good rider (professional or otherwise) is far more than just explicit technique and I think the majority of us here have seen some so-called professionals we wouldn't allow near a rocking horse, let alone a living creature
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Everyone is allowed their opinion, and you may find it inflammatory, but at least you have a choice whether to partake in the discussion. Horses, for the most part, do not!!
 
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