Numpty questions about trailers ...

[smurf]

I have a large HGV lorry, but during the winter I am often out BSJA or a lesson with just one horse so I want a trailer for short local day trips with one horse.

I have a Honda CRV so not a huge 4x4 but good for about 1.75 tons.

I've just borrowed a 505 Ifor Williams and my 16.2hh older horse was fine but my baby was not. He's good to travel but never been in a trailer, and he's 17.1 but 7/8th TB so more tall than HUGE. He went in and out fine but was too cramped and his ears touched the roof etc

Other than a 510 Ifor Williams what else could I buy?

Don't want to spend a fortune as it's just an 'extra' to save the lorry.

So, sorry for the ramblings, suggestions for a trailer to carry one 17.1hh and to pull with a CRV

 

[CrazyMare]

I really dislike Ifor Williams - one of mine HATES them, and she is only 13.1h so its not a space issue.

I have a Bateson Ascot, and it gives my ponies a fabulous ride, but my OH's 17.1h TB also fits in quite happily. His previous owner had one, and he went hunting in it weekly.

ETA - OH's horse is huge/tall but not huge/wide - He is about as wide as a razor blade....He is long though, but fits well.

 

[smurf]

Ooh, looks good, what I really like about this one (and hate about the Ifor) is for one horse you want to travel it on the drivers side - cos of road camber, but the Ifor the front ramp is on the right so it's a really tight turn, but the Bateson it's on the left so easier for them to sweep out on a gentle curve.

So where do I get a second hand one?

 

[only_me]

Cheval liberte trailers also have a front ramp on the left

 

[LadyRascasse]

the only thing you would legally able to tow with a 1.75 mam is a single trailer. cheval liberte's have good headroom.

 

[smurf]

the only thing you would legally able to tow with a 1.75 mam is a single trailer. cheval liberte's have good headroom.

How does that work? A Ifor 510 has an unladen weight of 1000kg so as long as my horse is under 750kg then I can tow them both with a 4x4 that has a towing capacity of 1750kg

 

[OneInAMillion]

How does that work? A Ifor 510 has an unladen weight of 1000kg so as long as my horse is under 750kg then I can tow them both with a 4x4 that has a towing capacity of 1750kg

It isn't that simple as the trailers are plated with a certain weight which for an iFor is something like 2700kg, so your car isn't legal to pull it because it is based on how much weight the trailer can physically carry

 

[perfect11s]

It isn't that simple as the trailers are plated with a certain weight which for an iFor is something like 2700kg, so your car isn't legal to pull it because it is based on how much weight the trailer can physically carry

Rubish !!!! unless you havent got a pre1997 licence or taken a trailer test, however I would say not a good idea to try and tow a 510 IW with a small car like a crv it will be horrible you realy need a big something otherwise it will push you around and also kill the clutch/transmission sooner rather than later yes ive towed both the bateson ascots and 510 iw and the bateson is a better trailer by miles lighter and tows easly hope this helps

 

[ROG]

It isn't that simple as the trailers are plated with a certain weight which for an iFor is something like 2700kg, so your car isn't legal to pull it because it is based on how much weight the trailer can physically carry

INCORRECT!! - that is a MYTH put out by those that do not know the laws

There is no law which states that the MAM of a trailer cannot exceed the towing capacity of the vehicle towing it

There is a law which states that the maximum MAM a B category vehicle can tow is 3500 kgs

EDIT & ADD - looks like the two of us said the same thing at about the same time - LOL

 

[becca1305]

Oneinamillion is correct I do believe. Your car has to be legal to tow the legal max allowed weight of the trailer regardless of the weight you actually have in the trailer. I looked it up on the gov website when looking at what I could tow with my silly post 1997 licence but regardless of when you passed your car test that rule applies, and post 97(?) licence is even more complicated. hmm thats strange cant find it now :S could have sworn that was the rule tho I remember reading it! *confused face*

 

[applestroodle]

If the above was true surely there would be lots of people towing trailers illegally... Only this morning I was behind a freelander (would have thought roughly same towing weight as crv! ) towing a if505 with two large horses in the back, two passengers & boot full of stuff!!! It was struggling a little on the hills right enough!! I towed an iw510 with my parents frontera & one horse for a while very happily.

 

[CrazyMare]

So where do I get a second hand one?

Try Ebay?

I got mine via word of mouth....8/9 years ago, they do hold their value well though.

 

[perfect11s]

Oneinamillion is correct I do believe. Your car has to be legal to tow the legal max allowed weight of the trailer regardless of the weight you actually have in the trailer. I looked it up on the gov website when looking at what I could tow with my silly post 1997 licence but regardless of when you passed your car test that rule applies, and post 97(?) licence is even more complicated. hmm thats strange cant find it now :S could have sworn that was the rule tho I remember reading it! *confused face*

NO oneinamillion is totaly wrong sorry !!!!

 

[applestroodle]

P.s there is much more room at the front in a 510 than the 505 which makes the sweep out much much easier, won't feel as tight!!

 

[smurf]

Arghhh!!!!!

Am about to scrap the whole idea and stick with my gas guzzling HGV?

How can I (pre 97 license) holder and HGV license holder be not allowed to tow a trailer and a horse but I can drive an 18ton lorry?

 

[Noodlejaffa]

We've got a 510 to run around in (not getting another wagon til the spring) and we looked long and hard about what to tow with. We've had them in the past and have always gone for Landrover (Disco or Defender - not Freelander!!!), Shogun or Jeep (which we currently have) as they had the towing capacity for what we wanted. We regularly tow two big horses.

Applestroodle - I'm afraid to say that there are an awful lot of people towing with things they shouldn't be. Having a pre-1997 licence (as I have since I'm ancient) or not, there is no excuse for not knowing what you're doing!

 

[smurf]

P.s there is much more room at the front in a 510 than the 505 which makes the sweep out much much easier, won't feel as tight!!

I was holding on to BB for dear life but OH said that he just fitted in the 505 in terms of breast to bum, but we had to put the breast bar on lowest setting so it fitted under his chest as no room at chest. But that he looked very cramped for his head and neck and also for height.

He travels so well in lorry not sure I want to risk upsetting him in order to save a few £££ on fuel.

Applestroodle...as you know he's trying to pay for fuel himself with excellent bsja outings

 

[rambling]

I'm not in the UK but this whole legal towing thing is very difficult to get right. One would occasionally see really dangerous combinations on the road , best practice suggests that you should stay at about 75% of the towing capacity of the towing vehicle.

This site is reasonably easy to understand and is for UK road users . It gives the towing capacity of a Freelander as 2000Kg so not legally able to tow two decent sized horses and tack and certainly not best practise .

http://www.towinghorsetrailers.co.uk/towing_weights_law.htm

Hope it helps.

Just editing this to add that the Gardai (police ) here have taken to impounding an outfit found towing illegally if they bother to stop them ! I would NOT like that.

 

[idx]

Arghhh!!!!!

Am about to scrap the whole idea and stick with my gas guzzling HGV?

Personally I think you have hit the nail on the head here. If you need to buy a tow car (and from what perfect 11's said you may feel more comfortable with a bigger towing vehicle) then surely you are better off just paying more for the fuel costs and using your lorry?

The majority of lorry overheads you have to pay (tax, test, insurance) no matter how often you drive it so using it MORE makes it better value for money. yes the costs per mile maybe more than towing but you are already paying a lot to keep the lorry on the road so surely its better to use it? UNLESS it is too big to be convenient to maneouvre the places you want to go?

This is before I start to get into the safety aspects of lorry vs trailer. ALso I dont know if you have towed but driving a lorry you are "King of the Road" towing a trailer people will try to cut in etc and you may feel more vulnerable on motorways. Given the choice I would drive the lorry. Maybe your horse feels the same?

 

[perfect11s]

Arghhh!!!!!

Am about to scrap the whole idea and stick with my gas guzzling HGV?

Personally I think you have hit the nail on the head here. If you need to buy a tow car (and from what perfect 11's said you may feel more comfortable with a bigger towing vehicle) then surely you are better off just paying more for the fuel costs and using your lorry?

The majority of lorry overheads you have to pay (tax, test, insurance) no matter how often you drive it so using it MORE makes it better value for money. yes the costs per mile maybe more than towing but you are already paying a lot to keep the lorry on the road so surely its better to use it? UNLESS it is too big to be convenient to maneouvre the places you want to go?

This is before I start to get into the safety aspects of lorry vs trailer. ALso I dont know if you have towed but driving a lorry you are "King of the Road" towing a trailer people will try to cut in etc and you may feel more vulnerable on motorways. Given the choice I would drive the lorry. Maybe your horse feels the same?

Yes I think these are good points for the OP, I can understand not wanting to take one horse in a 18 tonner having to fill in and use the tachograph etc and about 10 mpg, mind hitching up a trailer would take longer then you get where your going and realise you've left that bridle, brush, jacket etc you want in the lorry or there is no loo or it's filthy you need to change or meet up with friends and havent got anywhere to sit and have a drink ...

 

[ROG]

Oneinamillion is correct I do believe. Your car has to be legal to tow the legal max allowed weight of the trailer regardless of the weight you actually have in the trailer. I looked it up on the gov website when looking at what I could tow with my silly post 1997 licence but regardless of when you passed your car test that rule applies, and post 97(?) licence is even more complicated. hmm thats strange cant find it now :S could have sworn that was the rule tho I remember reading it! *confused face*

Post 1997 licence would be the towing rules for B only licence holders and the total MAM is used for those calculations

The rules for towing on a B+E licence are totally different and that is what is being discussed in this case

Don't worry - many, including some of the authorities and trainers, get the two confused

 

[smurf]

Post 1997 licence would be the towing rules for B only licence holders and the total MAM is used for those calculations

The rules for towing on a B+E licence are totally different and that is what is being discussed in this case

Don't worry - many, including some of the authorities and trainers, get the two confused

So what is the correct answer then for a post 97 B+E, and also I have a C1+E, and a C license?

 

[applestroodle]

Applestroodle...as you know he's trying to pay for fuel himself with excellent bsja outings [/QUOTE]

There is your answer Smurf just keep winning and use the lorry!!!

 

[meesha]

I have towed quite happily with a freelander - took one horse in an ifor 505 - he weighed about 600 so was towing just under 1600 - the only time I struggled was on steep grassy fields uphill and once on a steep hardcore track through woods when had to stop on steep slope - we did once or twice tow 2 and I know we were overweight but we stayed at 30 mph max and stayed on flat roads (it was moving my 2 to new field) wouldnt do it any further than I did though (5 miles)

Would be worth looking at the Bateson Ascot or Deauville - the deauville only weights 860 and has really good head height 7ft 3 and takes up to 17hh

 

[perfect11s]

So what is the correct answer then for a post 97 B+E, and also I have a C1+E, and a C license?

Um I might be wrong on this so dont take it as fact but I think = B+E is car and trailer , C1+E is a small lorry towing a trailer ,and C is a rigid HGV !!!!

 

[sallybush]

The type and age of license you hold is completely irrelevant; the plated/gross weight of the trailer must be equal or less to the towing capacity of the tow vehicle. It doesn't matter if you have a pre or post '97 license, B or B+E, C+E etc, the law is that the tow vehicle must be capable of towing the trailer fully loaded. The post-97 licenses just add further restrictions.

I've recently done B+E, C and C+E tests with various instructors, driving courses through work, and very clear briefings from my employer, (who operates one of the largest vehicle fleets in the UK) that the trailer must be suited to the vehicle fully loaded. If you look at many of the vans used by utilities, they will have decals on the rear doors stating '2200kg MAX GROSS TRAILER WEIGHT'.

It may not be 'fair', and many people are inadvertently breaking the law, but its pretty clear. If you get pulled by VOSA or the police (like they were at Hickstead last month) this is how they will determine whether your outfit is safe and legal.

What you can do, is ask the trailer manufacturer to provide a new plate for the trailer. So if you have a 2700kg trailer but your car can only tow 2200kg, you change the plate, which just involves drilling a couple of rivets out, fit the new 2200kg plate, and as long as the trailer plus horse/tack/water doesn't exceed this new lower weight, you are perfectly legal. We did this with our Equi-trek, going from 3000kg to 2800kg so we could legally tow with a van.

 

[perfect11s]

The type and age of license you hold is completely irrelevant; the plated/gross weight of the trailer must be equal or less to the towing capacity of the tow vehicle. It doesn't matter if you have a pre or post '97 license, B or B+E, C+E etc, the law is that the tow vehicle must be capable of towing the trailer fully loaded. The post-97 licenses just add further restrictions.

I've recently done B+E, C and C+E tests with various instructors, driving courses through work, and very clear briefings from my employer, (who operates one of the largest vehicle fleets in the UK) that the trailer must be suited to the vehicle fully loaded. If you look at many of the vans used by utilities, they will have decals on the rear doors stating '2200kg MAX GROSS TRAILER WEIGHT'.

It may not be 'fair', and many people are inadvertently breaking the law, but its pretty clear. If you get pulled by VOSA or the police (like they were at Hickstead last month) this is how they will determine whether your outfit is safe and legal.

What you can do, is ask the trailer manufacturer to provide a new plate for the trailer. So if you have a 2700kg trailer but your car can only tow 2200kg, you change the plate, which just involves drilling a couple of rivets out, fit the new 2200kg plate, and as long as the trailer plus horse/tack/water doesn't exceed this new lower weight, you are perfectly legal. We did this with our Equi-trek, going from 3000kg to 2800kg so we could legally tow with a van.

Sorry but you are totaly and utterly wrong small trailers are not Plated ....under 3500 kg they show manufctures design weights as a guide Asumming the person has the corect licence all that matters is the actual weight
you are towing and whether it is inside the recomended limits of the vehicle manufacturer
Its about time admin put up a sticky thread with the true facts to stop idiots posting misinfomation every time there is a post about towing ...... oh and the only way you can be "done" is if they weigh your outfit and it is over the recomended weights then they could proscute for useing an unsafe/overloaded vehicle ......

 

[wench]

Trailers are plated though!

Except mines that old its fallen off!

 

[smurf]

Um I might be wrong on this so dont take it as fact but I think = B+E is car and trailer , C1+E is a small lorry towing a trailer ,and C is a rigid HGV !!!!

Yes, I know what kind of license I have I'm trying to find out what I can tow

 

[Llanali]

Plated for design!!!

Perfect 11s absolutely correct!! If towing with a pre 97 license- tow what you like as long as car can legally tow what you actually have on the back!

Post 97, without taking trailer test, tow only if your trailer mam is less than car towing weight, and whole thing less than 3.5 tonnes.

Post 97 with test, tow as pre 97 without.


Part of the plating and mam bit people get so wrong and spout is also to do with artic tractor units and trailers I do believe.

I think Juno, perfect 11s, mike 007, me And a few other spend our lives correcting this in hho!