Obese horses in showing

I own a highland, three Shagya Arabs and Five CB's. Their weight bears absolutely nothing to do with what I feed or don't feed.

The Arabs look like super models all year round. My natives start to pile on the pounds when I think the spring grass has not arrived!! Restricting grazing too much results in horse-sick paddocks.

When I rode in the 1950's hacking was safe and easy so it was easy to keep horses fit. I also rode native ponies who were so fat in the summer we rode bareback because their saddles would not fit!! They lost weight in the winter when they live out minus rugs and I don't ever remember seeing laminitis.
 
It doesn't take me long to type that much (sorry everyone) as I can type at over 130wpm!!! So my replies are seldom short ...
We don't have much to do with natives - my son's section A and a connie that we took to Olympia a few years ago - no other ponies on the yard at all. I suspect that as they are prone to putting on weight easily, then you will more often see overweight natives.

Workers - although most of our horses jump at home, we only have one worker. he is fitter than the others, but this is mainly because he is a livery and the owner rides every day. Most of the show horses have a life of one day working, 2-3 days hacking, 1 day lunging and the rest turn out. The worker is nowhere near the shape of an eventer (maybe a novice eventer, but I am going by what I see on TV!)

Judging is inconsistent. We have some judges that we would not normally show under with certain horses. If we KNOW they don't like a certain type, then why waste your money? But you have to go under them in order to work out what they like and dislike - this is not a thread about judges though, so must not wander off topic!

Judges must take some responsiiblty, but so must owners and producers - both professional and amateur. A judge can only judge what is put in front of them.
 
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And fmm, I thought your horse looked amazing!



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Thanks OM - I think it was Standing Ovation who had his pic in this week. He is a really big framed horse - and won the MW class at WIndsor yesterday, so everyone is very pleased with him
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A judge can only judge what is put in front of them.

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here here! we need a clapping smiley!!
 
Completely agree - I often play "lets spot the fat horse" when I go through H&H.

A friend of mine does County level showing with her coloured cob - she entered the working class as was told by the judge she would have to stop doing all the RC activities she does with it as it was too slim to do well at that level
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WTF
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Surely a working class they should be fit and muscled - trust me on our yards grass everything has a good covering.

I watched the Working Hunter class at the Royal on Horse & Country and was disgusted by some of the horses - how they could claim they were fit enough to do a day's hunting is beyond me!!
 
I bought my boy to show but there is no way I will compromise his health to win rossettes. As you can see from my sig, he's not overweight by any means. He's ridden five days a week and on one minimal hard feed a day, consisting of chaff, garlic and cubes. He's fit and healthy and has done well so far.

I do think it is the responsibility of the producers/owners to keep their horses healthy, but I think the judges have a lot to answer for. Sad as it is, some owners are in it for the glory and until judges stop placing obese horses, there will always be the few that do whatever it takes to win the class... even if that means fattening up to dangerous proportions!!
 
Im afraid I dont go along with much of that. Many 'showing' people create obese horses because the fat covers up conformational faults in my opinion. They must be penalised or they will continue with this practice and this is undoubtedly a welfare issue.

Whether we 'show' our eventer bred horses is for us to decide. If they move well and have good conformation they should not be penalised for not having enough 'condition' as , sadly is often the case!

What ever you say - and , of course, you might be highly responsible in this regard, obese young horses often dont have a working career to follow . This is really sad - and the producers should be penalised in some way to prevent this practice.
 
But fat young horses end up with splints, lami and other problems which are not possible to cover up. So what is in it for sensible producers to make their horses grossly overweight?

There were some enormous horses at WIndsor this week - a few from pro yards, but the vast majority were one horse owners.

Many of our horses hunt and dressage out of show season - and the ones that enjoy jumping are hopping over fences in the school or out hacking every week.

What conformational issues can fat cover up that a GOOD judge won't overlook? Curbs, splints, pigeon toes, dippy backs, cow hocks, weak neck, straight hind leg, back at the knee - there is very little that weight will improve as far as basic conformation is concerned!
 
Take for instance FMMs horses, none of them look fat or overweight - they look full up, which is exactly what a show horse should look like. They are a different athlete to eventers, hacks and sj'ers.

Just the way FMM's horses wont be going round Badminton any time soon, I doubt the big players at badders would do very well on FMM's turf either.

IMO too many people are very quick to re-act with the 'fat' comments when actually they are just a little sore they didn't get placed higher.
 
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Please, just remember that if you are wanting to event your horse, then he needs to be a completely different shape to a show horse - it is obvious that a show horse does not have the requirement to be as fit as an eventer (just think of the amount of working in some of the sharper types would need!). And it is not in the best interest of a show professional to overtop their horse as it does (as you have rightly said) have repercussions on their limbs. [ QUOTE ]


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**so why is it so often done???????? event horses are like marathon runners so need to carry less weight,,,,,, but then fit for purpose would imply a working hunter should be a fit a leanish (not as they apear) as would it not be its job to hunt all day ??

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[/ QUOTE ]Some horses LOOK fat but if you are experienced you can see whether they are grossly overweight or simply a bigger type of horse (such as a cob or a HW hunter) that needs to carry more weight to fill the frame. [ QUOTE ]


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*I dont think you need to be experienced to see FAT or Muscle, most people are able to tell the diff, you dont need to be a showing judge to spot that!!

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It is often the amateur owner who thinks they can cover up conformational defects with excess weight that is the culprit. [ QUOTE ]


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*it looks to me like its the higher levels that have more of a problem!
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It bothers me that some people who think their horses look perfect actually have them quite underweight and poor, and what these people think is muscle and fitness is simply all that is left of the horse as there is no weight being carried. [ QUOTE ]


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*so you have the opposite problem then?? the horses you see are too thin??????
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Interesting, at Badminton this year, I noticed that many of the horses were carrying more weight than usual - don't quite understand why - perhaps there are not so many TB types taking part and therefore these horses are naturally better doers and better covered than the standard TB - any ideas? [ QUOTE ]


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*I go to badminton every year and they looked fit and lean and ready for their job, as they do every year, they dont look any different at all!!
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. Yes, we sometimes get it wrong and get a horse fatter than it should be - just one night in the field can blow one up to elephant proportions. Each horses' diet is strictly monitored, but a sudden growth in grass is harder to predict.. Our horses are assessed DAILY - that is every single horse on a yard of 30 or so - and they are not only assessed, but discussed and feeding changed as required. How many people do that on a daily basis with their own horses? [ QUOTE ]


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*if what you say is correct how does a horse blow up to elephant size over night?????/
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I am rambling on a bit here - but I do (as you all know) get really frustrated at a few horses being singled out as overweight and people saying their horses are marvellous but not placed because they are too thin. Sorry, but I don't think life is as simple as that. [ QUOTE ]


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*i think it was a general observation from the viewing public, and as this thread proves quite a few people are shocked by the size of some of these horses!! As i was watching a workers a while ago and not singling anyone out,,, they ALL in the top ten were over weight and muted by their sheer size esp am afraid the winner,imo. [ QUOTE ]


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And if you don't want to come down the line with your "perfect" horse, and you KNOW you won't get placed with your perfect horse because you don't want him overtopped, [ QUOTE ]


*so your agreeing they are over topped and unless yours is dont show, go do something else insted????
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I've qualified everything several times on this post, given my opinion - you have yours - fine. I don't have all the answers - but coming from one of the more successful pro yards on the circuit, felt that it may be of interest to people. Obviously not.

and have you NEVER seen a cob type or native blow up overnight? You can (apparently) achieve similar effects if you feed certain specialist feeds according to advertising bumph.

This is my cob. He has won and been champion in coloured and cob classes at county level in 8 out of 11 classes so far this year (came second twice and third once). He was also winner at HOYS last year. Tell me if you think he is fat? If you DON'T think he is fat, then surely that is proof to anyone who says that a show horse has to be overwieght to be successful. (and please don't be nasty about him as he is truly the most adorable horse!!!) The picture was taken yesterday afternoon in the cob championship at Windsor. On another forum, someone had said that all the cobs at WIndsor yesterday that were well placed were grossly overweight. I don't think that is true.

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Re Badminton - I don't look at event horses that often - and watching this year was surprised to see so many looking so well. I was not sure whether it was the type of horse that just carries more condition, or the fact that the removal of the steeplechase and roads and tracks meant that horses were prepared differently. But I promise you that if you look at old pics of events from 10 years ago and some of the less TB types now, they are totally different shapes!

The other point that I was attempting to make but obviously failing in getting the idea across, is that if you have an all rounder, then it is likely that you won't be placed at Badminton. It is equally likely that you won't be placed at a top county show. But nothing stopping people from doing riding club eventing or lower level shows. Irrespective of weight (for showing) and bravery (for eventing) there are a lot of other things that go into the mix.

Does that make more sense?
 
QR I was shocked by the size of some of the animals at in the showing rings at Balmoral this week. Some were downright wobbly and still in the cards.

However I am not a showing expert and am prepared to be corrected.
 
To me, Dinger shows exactly the perfect condition for a show horse - he is well covered with a good topline, but still looks fit enough to go hunting or jumping with ease. There is no wobbling crest or deep gutter down his bum and you can see nice definition where his neck joins his shoulder.

I wish we saw more top show horses in his condition in the ring, especially in the cob and mountain and moorland classes. I think there is such a temptation for some people to try and make up for lack of bone by piling on blubber instead.
 
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Re Badminton - I don't look at event horses that often - and watching this year was surprised to see so many looking so well. I was not sure whether it was the type of horse that just carries more condition, or the fact that the removal of the steeplechase and roads and tracks meant that horses were prepared differently. But I promise you that if you look at old pics of events from 10 years ago and some of the less TB types now, they are totally different shapes!


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I actually think this has less to do with the removal of roads and tracks/steeplechase (many top eventers warm the horse up as though it were doing the R&T section) and more to do with the importance of the dressage phase these days meaning horses are worked more correctly so they have a much better frame and topline than in yesteryear. It used to be possible to do a mediocre dressage then pull yourself into the top ten off the back of a good XC and SJ round - you can't do that any more really.

Sorry - complete aside to the topic in question!
 
FMM - your horses look fab - both the coloured on this post and the one in HH. The horses on the Newark and Notts show report however ..... FAT
 
This is a debate that crops up every year once the showing season starts and one which I also feel quite strongly about.

I show a lot in Hunter and Riding Horse classes and usually on young horses. Last year both of my four year olds were eventing at Affiliated PN level the month before showing at Royal Dublin.

I won the Workers with one and the other was third in a strong class of Smalls. They are both horses which naturally carry weight easily and I actually have to work hard to keep the weight off them. They have both got five affiliated events (with good placings) under their belts so far this season and will do their first show tomorrow.

In my opinion they are in just right condition with the Small Hunter even carrying slightly more weight than I would like even though he belted round a PN course last week so is quite fit.

I hate seeing obese horses waddling around the ring - surely people can see that carrying all that excess weight is not only bad for their limbs, but is affecting their movement too!?

Also, especially with young horses, the rigours of competing at bigger shows is going to take quite a bit out of them, so surely it is important to have them as fit as possible for the job?
 
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Re Badminton - I don't look at event horses that often - and watching this year was surprised to see so many looking so well. I was not sure whether it was the type of horse that just carries more condition, or the fact that the removal of the steeplechase and roads and tracks meant that horses were prepared differently. But I promise you that if you look at old pics of events from 10 years ago and some of the less TB types now, they are totally different shapes!


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I actually think this has less to do with the removal of roads and tracks/steeplechase (many top eventers warm the horse up as though it were doing the R&T section) and more to do with the importance of the dressage phase these days meaning horses are worked more correctly so they have a much better frame and topline than in yesteryear. It used to be possible to do a mediocre dressage then pull yourself into the top ten off the back of a good XC and SJ round - you can't do that any more really.

Sorry - complete aside to the topic in question!

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Doh! Of course you are absolutely right. That also explains the timescale that I quoted in my post. Thank you for clearing that up!!! I knew they looked different to the "olden days" and more complete to my showing eyes.
 
Weaknesses in the frame can be disguised by fat - eg goose rump, roach back, weak over the loins and even a ewe neck! That I am sure is why many producers let their horses get into such a gross state. Splits are not necessarily linked to overweight (if only!) - laminitis often is - but they take the risk...for the cache of winning!

It is only the judges that can resolve this by putting them down the line. Incidentally your coloured cob is certainly NOT obese - he looks just right! I am talking about the ones with a valley along the spine - and rolls of fat hanging from various part of their anatomy - eg the shoulders, neck and haunches
 
Thanks TB -

Re the fat disguising - tbh fat doesn't really sort out those problems unless you are very "lucky" - quite often it just accentuates them. Horses are like people and it is very hard to get bits fatter or thinner to improve body shape. Easier to put muscle on in the right places than get fat to move to the right places!
 
The ones who a ripping the producers to pieces for 'covering horses in fat so they can win' or 'showing fat youngstock' obviosly have NO idea the amount of work it takes to produce a horse for the show ring, either under saddle or in hand. How do you expect to show a horse in hand which lives out 24/7 and have that 'look at me' attitude and coat to match! Yes i agree there is still the occassional overweight animal but not neccessarily under a producer! The Highland in this weeks H&H isnt in my opinion fat, have you actually seen the natural size of these heavy type of horses?? Oh by the way "only-me" i would keep to what you do best with your horse and keep it out of the show ring if the other FAT horses upset you so much!!! I have seen the odd eventer in my class, it sticks out like a sore thumb, not because of the weight but by the way it moves.
 
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How do you expect to show a horse in hand which lives out 24/7 and have that 'look at me' attitude and coat to match!

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Bollocks - several of the winners at Dublin last year live out 24/7
 
My lad lives out 24/7 all year round. The only time he comes into his stable is feed times and the night before a show.
It's hard work but you can do it. There is nothing wrong with my lads coat or attitude.
The look at me attitude has nothing to do with the horse being stabled, it is just there naturaly.
My lad grows a hand when we take him off the lorry and he plays to the crowd. The bigger the crowd the better! (yes we have had him go like a donkey at a local show where there was no crowd and then the next day in the main ring of a county show he went the best he ever has for me)

Also I'm fairly sure that at one point FMM did have a horse that was produced from grass.
 
umm dear me druid you've taken that a bit too far i think!! Dont you realise the same routine doesnt suit everyone or for that matter every horse? Just pointing out the fact it isnt only down to certain producers who may have too much condition on clients horses/ponies, it can also be down to the owners showing/producing their horses themselves? The cob i used to show certainly wouldnt keep awake for the day had he been out all night! And before you throw your toys out, yes he was worked and yes he was fit enough for the job and no he wasnt fat!
 
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umm dear me druid you've taken that a bit too far i think!!

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Really, how so?


This is your original statement...
How do you expect to show a horse in hand which lives out 24/7 and have that 'look at me' attitude and coat to match!


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Dont you realise the same routine doesnt suit everyone or for that matter every horse?

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Don't you?
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Perhaps you should think before typing - then your posts wouldn't be quite so contradictory.
 
crazydaisy- I find your comment EXTREMLEY rude.
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I'll have you know my horse last year was 3rd in the riding horse class, 1st in the style, 1st in the novice workers and 2nd in the open workers!!!! At a county show!!!!!!!!
And I show very successfully.

IMO that highland was fat. And I asked originally where mm types more likely to be overweight!!!!!!!!!!

I agree with FMM. You however I do not.

And my horse was shown as a youngster before I got him, and won a lot of classes.
So, "crazydaisy" Maybe you should read posts properly???
 
FMM...must say your cob is looking lovely, very smart indeed! (and not at all overweight!) I also agree with everything you have said.

Oh and Crazydaisy...just for info...my cob has lived out for his first winter this year and looks better than ever. Also...I beleive the majority of Lynn Russells cobs spend most of their time living out as well.
 
I see you decided to keep your last thread clean this time druid! The coloured cob is gorgeous, so is the highland but thats my choice and the judges who placed them. Beanyowner you must be so fortunate to be able to leave out your cob all winter, unfortunately only having 9 acres and 10 horses we are unable to winter anything out! Obesity isnt anywhere near as bad as it used to be so things are changing slowly for the better. Which comment did you find EXTREMELY rude only-one?
 
Oh by the way "only-me" i would keep to what you do best with your horse and keep it out of the show ring if the other FAT horses upset you so much!!! I have seen the odd eventer in my class, it sticks out like a sore thumb, not because of the weight but by the way it moves.
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That was very rude. And uncalled for.

And its onlyme not onlyone
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you havent seen my horse, you dont know how he is bred, and actually, showing is really the only thing we win so
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He has correct movement and is very beautiful even if i am biased.

And fwiw, i said the highland was beautiful but carrying excess weight IMHO.

And dont have a go at Druid!!

FMM is the showing expert on here, we all value her opinion immensly, she has the results to prove her points. Plus I like her and think her horses are stunning!
 
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