observation whilst watching olympia

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DieselDog - which is an intersting point considering the emphasis placed upon a correctly fitted saddle :P

I was amazed at the hights the horses just seemed to 'ping' over :P <--- note the very sophisticated use of terminology there
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Emphasis placed upon correctly fitting saddles by whom though? I keep my horse on a racing yard and they have 3 saddles for 15 horses with no comment about whether they fit or not. My saddler was saying recently that most pro yards she knows of tend to have a couple of saddles then get the best fit they can with pads, sheepskin etc. She also says she doesn't believe in made to measure saddles unless a horse is *incredibly* strangely shaped as horses will change shape through the year, if their workload changes etc, and has no qualms about suggesting Prolite pads to make a saddle fit. She told me that she finds that leisure riders are the people who insist on having "made to measure" saddles which are checked constantly, and that she's never sold a M2M to a pro...
 
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Just to add, its not just showjumpers that use the same saddles for different horses. I am pretty sure that lots of eventers out there (don't know about dressagers
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) also do this, and that its not just a curse of the blinged up showumpers
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I was just about the say that in defence of sj'ers (I'm not a sj'er by the way, I thought I'd be fair!!
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QR The thing I've always liked about show jumping is that it isn't judged on style, its all about leaving the fences up. Its the only class in which I can win rosettes because no one could call me and my mare stylish!!

She leaps about like a lunatic at the start, goes disunited, takes corners on the wrong canter lead, misses out strides, throws her head about, bucks between fences and pulls like a train, all with her tail going round and round like a windmill and leaving me behind but it doesn't matter and thats the great thing, because we'd never be placed in anything else!! Can we be on the team?
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I'd just like to point out two things which I'm sure have been pointed out already - firstly that the arena at olympia is very very narrow and can't be at all easy to ride a big course round - there's precious little time to be correcting canter leads and the like. Secondly when I watched a Tim Stockdale demo from Your Horse a few years back I was hugely impressed with the level of his horses' schooling - canter pirouettes etc done with ease as a quick way of turning back on oneself during a course.
 
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Textbook style? - who wrote the text book though? Not the show jumpers
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I think that the fact that top horses jump incredible heights to win Olympic medals in saddles that don't fit just proves that saddles fitting isn't really that important if you can ride properly.

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Or that top riders have access to better advice and are better informed so can see when a saddle really doesn't fit and when it just needs a pad or whatever. I would defy any of the riders to do a good round if they ride consistently in a too narrow saddle for example.
 
Tim Stockdale did a lecture demo i organised at college, i was very very impressed with him both as a rider, btu also as a trainer.It is hard to perform but then to be able to explain how he achieves what he is asking for and logical steps of progression to maintain it means that i have the uttermost respect for him
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but i am a little clueless about showjumping so feel free to educate me
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Most of the saddles used nowadays by SJers are close contact types which are less "fitted" than some of the more structured, bigger types of saddles - I had a Bates close contact which fitted everything I ever put it on, from a witherless 15.3 WBx to a 17.2 ISH with a wither like a knife. It rode more like an attachment for the stirrups than something to sit "in"

the closest comparison I can find is to look at the Albions of the 90s to the "xtreme" model today

and before anyone doubts my ability to assess saddle fit, my OH is a saddler.

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can I re-iterate my previous post re saddle TYPES which seem to negate the need for M2M
 
I think you need to move your observation point a little nearer - you and the saddle fit 'critic'. I was told by a fully qualified (if it helps) saddle fitter that close contact trees are different and the tree-points not as restrictive as standard saddles. As a result, they can fit a much broader range of horses. A jumping yard may well use one saddle on several horses, but larger yards do have a few different saddles for the wider and narrow requirements and don't just pad randomly.

Flatwork is a huge issue and any rider now wanting to compete with any realistic chances against the top names has to be up there with the flatwork.

My son rides for an excellent yard and they do indeed get schooled extensively and very correctly on the flat.

All I saw was tactical, sensitive and superb riding from all riders - including the poor guy with the head-chucking horse which landed in a fence. I really felt for him.
 
Agreed- close contact saddles are much more flexible and do tend to fit a broad range of horses. Mine even has a self adjusting tree (or so the maker claims) so it will fit a variety of horses easily within a couple of cm difference.
 
First of all, yes glenruby u r right, if riding indoors, the riders should ride more controlled paces into fences rather den just “flat out”! the horses are not working correctly but all the riders want is to win!
I work with race horses, and depending on the type of saddle, horse, work load etc etc, 1 saddle CAN fit all horses, but that is not all the time. i feel that equine management is not thoroughly thought out when it comes to the professionals...... where it should! Also, by removing your hats whilst mounted doesn’t show the children a good & responsible rider does it! They no that they are “role models” to younger’s, so why wouldn’t they want to show them the correct ways?

You think, these riders have been brought up this way, been taught this way, but who taught their elders? Did they go to college, uni etc?
I feel that riders, of all levels, disciplines etc, should attend college / uni at some point in their lives to actually sit down and learn the in depth stuff about horses, not just how to get on and go, but how the horse works, wot makes it work, health, stable management & care etc etc.

I feel throughout my life, i ahve seen some riders who think they are “the top” but really, all they do, is use a severe bit 2 pull their horses heads in, saw on the reins & use a fake outline.... surely, in horse welfare.... somewhere, this is wrong?!!

Snowponia.... do not listen 2 wot others perceive of u, u and me both no where we stand, how much we no etc etc.... it is, in all right minds, everyone’s prerogative to have their own opinions, but whether they are right or not is a different matter!!
 
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You think, these riders have been brought up this way, been taught this way, but who taught their elders? Did they go to college, uni etc?
I feel that riders, of all levels, disciplines etc, should attend college / uni at some point in their lives to actually sit down and learn the in depth stuff about horses, not just how to get on and go, but how the horse works, wot makes it work, health, stable management & care etc etc.

I feel throughout my life, i ahve seen some riders who think they are “the top” but really, all they do, is use a severe bit 2 pull their horses heads in, saw on the reins & use a fake outline.... surely, in horse welfare.... somewhere, this is wrong?!!



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i totally accept that everyone is entitled to their own opinion but i think its a bit naive to think that if you haven't been to college/uni then you don't understand horses and how to make them work. i'm fairly sure (but happy to be corrected if anyone knows otherwise) that John Whit didn't go to uni but he's one of the most amazing horsemen i've ever watched with a feel for how to get a VAREITY of horses jumping well consistently over many years...you can't do this without a good knowledge of how horses work...
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in response to the OP i think sometimes sjing can look a bit messy and thats where you get the impression that they are just hauling about- BUT in reality its hard (i imagine- have never actually tried) to jump a course of 12 fences set at 1.50m high and god knows how wide without sometimes having to take a pull or whatever...most sjers at the top level work very hard and have the most amazingly supple horses. i think the riding at amateur levels in sjing is generally much more concerning....
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First of all, yes glenruby u r right, if riding indoors, the riders should ride more controlled paces into fences rather den just “flat out”! the horses are not working correctly but all the riders want is to win!
I work with race horses, and depending on the type of saddle, horse, work load etc etc, 1 saddle CAN fit all horses, but that is not all the time. i feel that equine management is not thoroughly thought out when it comes to the professionals...... where it should! Also, by removing your hats whilst mounted doesn’t show the children a good & responsible rider does it! They no that they are “role models” to younger’s, so why wouldn’t they want to show them the correct ways?

You think, these riders have been brought up this way, been taught this way, but who taught their elders? Did they go to college, uni etc?
I feel that riders, of all levels, disciplines etc, should attend college / uni at some point in their lives to actually sit down and learn the in depth stuff about horses, not just how to get on and go, but how the horse works, wot makes it work, health, stable management & care etc etc.

I feel throughout my life, i ahve seen some riders who think they are “the top” but really, all they do, is use a severe bit 2 pull their horses heads in, saw on the reins & use a fake outline.... surely, in horse welfare.... somewhere, this is wrong?!!

Snowponia.... do not listen 2 wot others perceive of u, u and me both no where we stand, how much we no etc etc.... it is, in all right minds, everyone’s prerogative to have their own opinions, but whether they are right or not is a different matter!!

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That is the best post on this thread, for amusement value

I was going to leave this forum due to the complete crap that people spout on it but it's actually worth sticking around just for the entertainment
 
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DieselDog - which is an intersting point considering the emphasis placed upon a correctly fitted saddle :P

I was amazed at the hights the horses just seemed to 'ping' over :P <--- note the very sophisticated use of terminology there
laugh.gif


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Emphasis placed upon correctly fitting saddles by whom though? I keep my horse on a racing yard and they have 3 saddles for 15 horses with no comment about whether they fit or not. My saddler was saying recently that most pro yards she knows of tend to have a couple of saddles then get the best fit they can with pads, sheepskin etc. She also says she doesn't believe in made to measure saddles unless a horse is *incredibly* strangely shaped as horses will change shape through the year, if their workload changes etc, and has no qualms about suggesting Prolite pads to make a saddle fit. She told me that she finds that leisure riders are the people who insist on having "made to measure" saddles which are checked constantly, and that she's never sold a M2M to a pro...

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I think what can also be added here is that most difficult to fit horses are simply those lacking in correct musculature - which is almost inevitably the case for a weekend leisure rider.

Horses kept at competition level fitness will have a much stronger resemblance in shape, and as has been said the tree of a close contact saddle is shaped differently hence the increased probability of a decent fit on several different horses.
 
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Not actually sure wot was said tho?????
That you can't be a pro' if you've never gone to further education? That we all have different opinions and are entitled to them but that if we voice them we are being nasty? That if any of us see someone remove their hat at an event we are bound to copy them? This thread is getting quite bizarre....
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I think SJing has recieved a lot of flack latley,Ok the showjumping can look messy but in such a small arena (reffering to olympia) it can often be more detrimental to change the horses lead leg or stay on a rangey stride going into a fence esp at 1.50m!. I appreciate the OP has little knowledge of the sport so instead of turning it into a potentially firey thread maybe we should try to help educate the OP.

As for the saddle issue on big yards it is often not visable to have a saddle for every horse, the technology in saddle making has VASTLY improved in the last few years (take the invention of Quantum saddles for example!) therefore the trees are more flexible and it IS possible to have a few saddles that will fit a wide variety of horses and of course various pads will help. I'm not saying saddles shouldn't be fitted but as has been mentioned above horses competing at top level can change shape quite a lot.
 
yes i agree.... in the racing industry.... most yards only have 1 or a few saddles which fit most horses! like i said, depending on breeds, size, weight etc etc, will depend on how many horses 1 saddle will fit for comfortable movement!
 
I'm sorry snowponia, but that was some of the most unbelievable dross I have ever read on here, and that's saying something.

I prefer to learn from people who have been around horses and true horsemen/women all of their lives than from someone who has the time to sit and write a textbook, the contents of which they think all horses can be managed by.

If liljockey honestly think that riders within the Olympic disciplines just "get on and go" and their horses do not "work correctly" because they "only want to win" then I suggest he or she sticks to racing.

I know of a few top riders who will not employ grooms who have learnt their stable/equine management in college as they have absolutely no idea what they are doing when faced with the high pressure environment of a competition yard in the real world. Judging from that post I can see their point.
 
I'm stunned by the idea that our top riders should go to college or university to learn how to look after their horses and to understand how they work.

How many of our college or university leavers go on to be top riders?

If anyone spends any time listening to lecture/demos, watching top SJers warm up at shows or even watching some of the many training DVDs around, it should be immediately obvious that they are very knowledgeable horsemen who know and understand their horses.
 
i agree that college / uni students have no clue to working in the "real world" but it does give an insight to more then just the riding! i have worked in all disciplines all of my life so all u say is [****] 2 me!
u shuld no, if u ave worked in da industry as u say, that, things r no as "legit2 as they shuld b!!
the head lad at my yard trains top sj's horses so dont tell me.... i no it from da pro's side hahahaha
wen u ave da decency 2 cum 2 my face n say wot eva it is u ave 2 say,.... cum! until dden.... shut da fuk up n stop bitch ova a forum!
 
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i agree that college / uni students have no clue to working in the "real world" but it does give an insight to more then just the riding! i have worked in all disciplines all of my life so all u say is [****] 2 me!
u shuld no, if u ave worked in da industry as u say, that, things r no as "legit2 as they shuld b!!
the head lad at my yard trains top sj's horses so dont tell me.... i no it from da pro's side hahahaha
wen u ave da decency 2 cum 2 my face n say wot eva it is u ave 2 say,.... cum! until dden.... shut da fuk up n stop bitch ova a forum!

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hahahaha this place makes me lol
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i agree that college / uni students have no clue to working in the "real world" but it does give an insight to more then just the riding! i have worked in all disciplines all of my life so all u say is [****] 2 me!
u shuld no, if u ave worked in da industry as u say, that, things r no as "legit2 as they shuld b!!
the head lad at my yard trains top sj's horses so dont tell me.... i no it from da pro's side hahahaha
wen u ave da decency 2 cum 2 my face n say wot eva it is u ave 2 say,.... cum! until dden.... shut da fuk up n stop bitch ova a forum!

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hahahaha this place makes me lol
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Is it funny? Any chance of a translation? I haven't a clue what on earth any of that said....
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i agree that college / uni students have no clue to working in the "real world" but it does give an insight to more then just the riding! i have worked in all disciplines all of my life so all u say is [****] 2 me!
u shuld no, if u ave worked in da industry as u say, that, things r no as "legit2 as they shuld b!!
the head lad at my yard trains top sj's horses so dont tell me.... i no it from da pro's side hahahaha
wen u ave da decency 2 cum 2 my face n say wot eva it is u ave 2 say,.... cum! until dden.... shut da fuk up n stop bitch ova a forum!

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hahahaha this place makes me lol
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Is it funny? Any chance of a translation? I haven't a clue what on earth any of that said....
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It is quite amusing, but largely painful to try and read!
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i agree that college / uni students have no clue to working in the "real world" but it does give an insight to more then just the riding! i have worked in all disciplines all of my life so all u say is [****] 2 me!
u shuld no, if u ave worked in da industry as u say, that, things r no as "legit2 as they shuld b!!
the head lad at my yard trains top sj's horses so dont tell me.... i no it from da pro's side hahahaha
wen u ave da decency 2 cum 2 my face n say wot eva it is u ave 2 say,.... cum! until dden.... shut da fuk up n stop bitch ova a forum!

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hahahaha this place makes me lol
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Is it funny? Any chance of a translation? I haven't a clue what on earth any of that said....
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i'm a teacher so am used to translating kid-speak
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i think that she's offering to 'take someone outside' because they dared to suggest that she is taking a controversial line on rider training
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Now i am not into showjumping, but i am noticing that a high percentage of the jumpers in the current class are continually going disunited and not showing true bend or canters.....


just a thought
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It's quite normal in showjumping to take outside bend when going round corners. Doesn't mean they aren't schooled or they're unbalanced.
 
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i agree that college / uni students have no clue to working in the "real world" but it does give an insight to more then just the riding! i have worked in all disciplines all of my life so all u say is [****] 2 me!
u shuld no, if u ave worked in da industry as u say, that, things r no as "legit2 as they shuld b!!
the head lad at my yard trains top sj's horses so dont tell me.... i no it from da pro's side hahahaha
wen u ave da decency 2 cum 2 my face n say wot eva it is u ave 2 say,.... cum! until dden.... shut da fuk up n stop bitch ova a forum!

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Lol, someones yanking "ya" chain.
 
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