OCD in hocks - would it out you off?

[freyah23]

Found a lovely 4yr old Warmblood horse out of Comthago VDL (Comme il Faut) x Sit Shutterfly. X-rays taken in May show OCD in fragments in both hocks, seller has been fully transparent with this & I have sent all X-rays onto my vet. It’s priced at £12k.

As a 4yr old the horse hasn’t done alot and had a relatively quiet summer. I understand it has fab breeding, but can’t wrap my head around the price tag with diagnosed OCD.

I just wanted to get other people’s opinions on the OCD - do I walk away? Should this condition be reflected better in the price (it isn’t declared on the ad).

Thanks!

 

[AmyMay]

Run

 

[ycbm]

Put me off? I'd be running as fast as I could in the other direction.
.

 

[Cortez]

Nope, nope, nopety-nope. Not at any price; not for free.

 

[Ceifer]

Like others have said run.

Also

12k?! They are mad.

 

[ycbm]

Why haven't they removed them? I do understand "watch and wait" with a sound horse you plan to keep, but not with one for sale when the operation and a short rehab, if successful, should make it worth so much more. Maybe they are hoping for someone who won't x ray to come along.
.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

Mine was a well bred, well moving Westphalian that I pity bought later on in his hard life, he had OCD in a hock diagnosed at 4 and had surgery to remove, he was PTS before he hit 12 with a plethora of issues in his legs that may or may not have been resultant, contributory or compensatory - but I echo the above and say I would run!!

 

[stormox]

A lame 4 yr old - leave it well alone

 

[Hormonal Filly]

Why haven't they removed them? I do understand "watch and wait" with a sound horse you plan to keep, but not with one for sale when the operation and a short rehab, if successful, should make it worth so much more. Maybe they are hoping for someone who won't x ray to come along.
.

This, usually they’re removed as early as possible. I was told by one of the top surgeons in the country. He said a lot of sports horses/warmbloods with clean X-rays have had chips ‘whipped out’ as he called it.

I wouldn’t take the risk OP, not at 12k.. maybe for a couple of grand!

 

[claret09]

no

 

[meleeka]

Is it a mare? Perhaps someone thinks it has a breeding value if so? Presumably anyone paying £12k for a horse would get it vetted and vet history disclosed?

 

[claracanter]

It’s a huge red flag. Walk away

 

[freyah23]

Is it a mare? Perhaps someone thinks it has a breeding value if so? Presumably anyone paying £12k for a horse would get it vetted and vet history disclosed?

Yes it’s a mare but advertised as a ‘showjumping prospect’ given its lines. Would make a lovely brood mare but still a hefty price tag for that

 

[rara007]

Depending on the horse and if it still passes a vetting, I wouldn’t be overly concerned, assuming its ‘clear’ value was much higher 5 figures than it is.

 

[SEL]

I was advised not to breed from her when one of mine was diagnosed with hock arthritis at 6. Vets said she hadn't done the work for it to be anything other than genetic.

 

[scats]

My friends homebred had OCD and it’s been a catastrophe of lameness ever since. Retired very young.

And £12k?? What planet are they living on?
Run and don’t look back.

 

[blitznbobs]

I was advised not to breed from her when one of mine was diagnosed with hock arthritis at 6. Vets said she hadn't done the work for it to be anything other than genetic.

Ocd is not genetic so breeding is not an issue as long as the horse is sound enough to carry the foal

 

[Bobthecob15]

Has she been graded with a society? If not then definitely not worth anything like that even just for breeding. They are obviously hoping for someone to come along without a clue. What a shame

 

[TheMule]

Ocd is not genetic so breeding is not an issue as long as the horse is sound enough to carry the foal

OCD is one of the most proven genetic things there is?!
Absolutely never breed from an affected individual, unless you don’t mind paying to take the chips out of the offspring as well (and the associated risks)
Also, from the very basics of what you have said, that isn’t amazing breeding. Obviously I don’t know specifically what the dam herself has done in sport or produced so far.
Comthago is just starting at top sport and hasn’t got much on the ground yet. The damsire has a reputation for being difficult and didn’t achieve much himself, but did have a famous brother. He isn’t sought after as an SJing stallion, he has a achieved a bit more with a small number of eventing offspring

 

[ycbm]

Ocd is not genetic so breeding is not an issue as long as the horse is sound enough to carry the foal

Sorry, BB, I checked this out and there is lots of research and articles online saying it is.
.

 

[LEC]

Ocd is not genetic so breeding is not an issue as long as the horse is sound enough to carry the foal

Genetic is the key factor especially for hock though there are other factors as well such as nutrition and growth.

Osteochondritis dissecans (OCD) in Horses – Molecular Background of its Pathogenesis and Perspectives for Progenitor Stem Cell Therapy

Osteochondrosis (osteochondrosis dissecans; OCD) is a disease syndrome of growing cartilage related to different clinical entities such as epiphysitis, subchondral cysts and angular carpal deformities, which occurs in growing animals of all species, including ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[lme]

Wouldn’t buy unless chips were of the type that can be easily removed and price reflected the cost of surgery.

 

[Nicnac]

4 + OCD + £12k? Nope.

 

[ROMANY 1959]

Walking vets bill. You can do far better at 12k. Gallop away fast

 

[Lucky Snowball]

I would not breed from a horse whose conformation could have caused unsoundness at 4. Run.

 

[expanding_horizon]

I bought an 11 year old warmblood (different 11year old to one I mentioned today on a different thread).

He was decent money, I didn’t X-ray as very sound for 5 stage vetting, and I wanted to insure and was concerned about artefacts on X-rays as older leading to exclusions. Vet advice as sound, known history, some competition record was dont X-ray.

I did more work with horse than he’d been doing since backed. Within six months had a hock swelling and marginal lameness. X-rays revealed 3 bone chips (both hocks and a fetlock).

He had all 3 removed, a few months rehab and no related issues. Vet surgeon said hock joints where chips removed in good condition and aren’t the hocks joints (are multiple hock joints) that are likely to get hock arthritis.

My working understanding is my horse probably got bone chips as youngster but as only did fairly light work up to 11 didn’t show. Bone chip sites having not caused issue in last 2.5 years unlikely to cause future issue.

I don’t see why if 4 year old is sound sellers don’t remove chips and sell after this.

 

[teddy_]

I had a Trakehner who was diagnosed with OCD lesions in both hocks and stifles at age seven.

My vets own words “this is a great example of why mum and dad should never have met”; i.e., please don’t consider breeding from a horse with this condition …

 

[BronsonNutter]

If the price was right (for the quality of horse, i.e. without the chips would you pay £20k for this horse?) and the chips not so bad (there are 'chips' and then there are boulders with complete disruption to the cartilage surface which will never stay sound), then I would consider buying and having them removed prior to doing any further work with the horse. But it would have to be an extremely nice horse, have every other joint x-rayed to check for any other chips, and I would have to be able to afford to potentially lose the money or put something towards future joint medications etc as well as the surgery for it.

 

[ihatework]

I’m generally pretty open to stuff and appreciate you don’t ride the X-rays.
But the market is diving at the moment and there are lots of unproven 4yos not selling.

12k isn’t *that* cheap for an unproven youngster unless there is a serious dam line on it.

If you ended up with one inadvertently then I’d say don’t panic. If it was older and showing good form under saddle I’d say don’t discount.

But a completely untried 4yo would be a big no.

And yes there is a strong genetic link, the KWPN even gives ocd indexes!

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Why would you consider spending £12k on a horse with a known problem and no history of success to fall back on? There are plenty of other horses out there without problems. Horses are not selling like they were this time last year.