Oh come on, its not ROCKET SCIENCE!!

fleabittengrey

fleabittengrey

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I'm on a pet-rant of mine this morning, I am a bit fanatical and obsessive about bits and bitting, I find it a fascinating subject - and don't profess to know everything but I really think that all horse owners should know SOMETHING before putting new bits in their horses mouths. I feel there should be the idea that like you get a professional saddle fitter to fit a saddle, some sort of "expert" should be consulted before putting anything new in your horses mouth.

I've been on fleabay this morning looking at pelhams - and the sheer number of weymouths that people describe as pelhams scares me (for sale as my horse didn't like it) - and equally the pelhams that people describe you can put with a snaffle to make a double bridle. No no no!!!


Anyway, this is really terrifying to me (I know, I'm easily scared ;-) )

A reputable name/brand like JW (and this is a gallery picture on several tack shop websites, not just this listing) you would think could get this right....

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/John-Whitaker...uipment&var&hash=item895f404206#ht_500wt_1156



Please tell me I'm not the only one cringeing at that picture -there are many of those on ebay, private sellers picturing a weymouth with roundings attached.
Scary, scary, scary.


(I'm not even going to start on french links that are actually Dr Bristols, or perhaps fulmer vs full cheek although the latter is just me being pedantic, that doesn't do any real harm!)
 
That is not a Pelham, right?! I think it may be one of those 'stick it on any bit and take a photo'
I've seen roundings on a loose ring snaffle Once, god knows why! :rolleyes:
 
No, you're not the only one. Although my pet hate is those people who say 'my horse opens its mouth, so I use a flash/grackle/drop noseband' Why don't they realise that the horse opens its mouth because it is uncomfortable in its bit?
 
i've seen that picture before and it doesn't look good tbh. it looks as if when you use the rein atall the bit is just gonna go up in the mouth wrather the normal pelham action. (and it not even a pelham is it,. that a weymouth).
 
That isn't a pelham but they aren't saying it is. Just that this is a rounding attached to something?

The sellers who are selling them incorrectly are more scary.I must look with my eyes closed though as I've never seen a weymouth sold as a pelham or vice versa
 
jesstickle said:
That isn't a pelham but they aren't saying it is. Just that this is a rounding attached to something?

The sellers who are selling them incorrectly are more scary.I must look with my eyes closed though as I've never seen a weymouth sold as a pelham or vice versa
Click to expand...


Thing is, they are suggesting that it is acceptable to use a rounding in that fashion on that bit. Which it definately is not!


Not a pelham, a weymouth (also with roundings!)
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/5-pelham-roun...r_Equipment&hash=item5198ba8dd5#ht_500wt_1156


A pelham that could be used in a double? Erm, nope!!
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BIT-PELHAM-Mu...r_Equipment&hash=item3ca0604c6c#ht_855wt_1139
 
I totally agree, i find it astonishing that, you see bits advertised wrong another one is hanging cheek snaffles show upside down. I have corrected a few at shows:eek: I do hope nobody as taken unbridge, but horses wellfair and all that.
But to be honest buting roundins on a weymouth just it astonating (cant spell but i know my bits;))
 
Yikes, I get annoyed when I see pelhams/weymouths minus a lip strap.. not sure quite what to say to that one... :(

I agree with you completely - why do people not do the necessary research before using these bits? I'm not saying everyone has to be an expert but you should at least know about the bit you are using. Feeding is the same IMO, so many people haven't a clue about what is actually in the feed they are buying and why it is (or isn't as is often the case) the right one for their horse. Mad.
 
O god. Don't point them out to me. I don't want to see them! Bleeding muppets! You're right. They are definitely there. I probably don't see them as I'm only ever looking at loose ring french link snaffles!

I agree that JW should have made a better effort to show it on a pelham as people are clearly idiots and will just copy what they see but ultimately the shouldn't have to. People should just not be retarded!

My eyes hurt now from looking at that :(
 
frustrated said:
I totally agree, i find it astonishing that, you see bits advertised wrong another one is hanging cheek snaffles show upside down.
Click to expand...

Not so long ago I met a BHSII who was insistant I had a hanging cheek on upside down - I didn't, of course - but was a bit lost for words!
 
Arrrr well spotted.

Thing is they are selling them as 'Pelham Roundings' and they are not on a Pelham on the model, you'd think a company like that wouldn't make a sloppy mistake like that when taking photos, it's not very proffessional is it.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
No, you're not the only one. Although my pet hate is those people who say 'my horse opens its mouth, so I use a flash/grackle/drop noseband' Why don't they realise that the horse opens its mouth because it is uncomfortable in its bit?
Click to expand...

Not always......my mare goes lovely in her full cheek, french link snaffle, while schooling and hacking.

But

She opens her mouth to aviod having to slow down while we are going for a canter. She is not unhappy at all in her mouth or with her bit, she opens her mouth as a way of getting away from me.
I put a flash on while doing faster work, not even tight so some would say it's not doing anything, but she then doesn't even try to get away from me and goes along happily.
Don't generalise on things, some of us do know what we are doing and don't put on a whole tack shop just because.....
Once she learns to respect me while doing the faster work she'll have it removed.
(I am using schooling to get round these issues too)
 
fleabittengrey said:
Thing is, they are suggesting that it is acceptable to use a rounding in that fashion on that bit. Which it definately is not!


Not a pelham, a weymouth (also with roundings!)
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/5-pelham-roun...r_Equipment&hash=item5198ba8dd5#ht_500wt_1156


A pelham that could be used in a double? Erm, nope!!
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BIT-PELHAM-Mu...r_Equipment&hash=item3ca0604c6c#ht_855wt_1139
Click to expand...

Just emailed them with this-

Hi,

Don't know whether this is a mistake or not but just to make you aware that the description on this bit is wrong as you can't use a pelham as part of a double bridle,only a weymouth.

Many thanks

will let you know if they reply
 
mrogers said:
Just emailed them with this-

Hi,

Don't know whether this is a mistake or not but just to make you aware that the description on this bit is wrong as you can't use a pelham as part of a double bridle,only a weymouth.

Many thanks

will let you know if they reply
Click to expand...

Please do - I wrote a very polite email to a couple of them suggesting that if they called it such and such, which it actually is, they might make more money...

I know, I'm an interfereing old busy body. There is a magennis on there described as a copper roller,. but sssh as I'm trying to snap that one up much cheaper than I'd have to pay for a properly advertised magennis!
 
That is really scary :(

I'm also interested in bitting, and have found out as much as possible about it - don't claim to be an expert but I know the basics, why? Because it's such an important factor in riding! xx
 
I know nothing about bitting. not a thing. So, when I got K, who is my first horse, I got an EDT who was recommended to me by my best friend (who events and now we share instructors). The EDT suggested I put a bradoon in his mouth, I was a bit confused as I heard they could be severe, so I questioned her and she told me that as he has a small mouth (he is an anglo arab) it would fit much better than a snaffle. She told me that putting a bit bit in a small mouth is as severe as a small bit in a big mouth.

So, I bought an NS bradoon and never looked back. He is comfortable in it, goes beautifully and I have never in the 4 years I have had him, ever ridden him in anything else.

I now think that it is common sense to get proper advice when it comes to your horses head, I see so many badly fitting bridles it makes me cringe!
 
AshTay - at least you asked for help!

Its actually a Dr Bristol bit, albeit I am pretty certain the bit is upside down or back to front, so you can't really see the angle of it (you can use them as a french link action if put back to front)
A Dr Bristol which is what i would class as one of the "strongest" snaffle mouths, the flat edge of tongue plate lies at an angle to the tongue when pressure is applied, rather than smoothly in a lozenge or french link, which means the pressure on the tongue is very effective - usually used for hunting, jumping, XC, perhaps as an alternative as moving towards a gag or pelham bit, if you do not need the poll or curb pressure points. I find horses tend to come far too light and behind the hand in it, not a favourite bit but I've got one in the library "just in case"!

Here's a DR bristol showing the angle of the plate: http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgu...6hAfk_fWiCQ&page=1&ndsp=28&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0
 
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fleabittengrey said:
AshTay - at least you asked for help!

Its actually a Dr Bristol bit, which is what i would class as one of the "strongest" snaffle mouths, the flat edge of tongue plate lies at an angle to the tongue when pressure is applied, rather than smoothly in a lozenge or french link, which means the pressure on the tongue is very effective - usually used for hunting, jumping, XC, perhaps as an alternative as moving towards a gag or pelham bit, if you do not need the poll or curb pressure points. I find horses tend to come far too light and behind the hand in it, not a favourite bit but I've got one in the library "just in case"!
Click to expand...

Everyday is a school day!
Can you tell that because the loops that link to the tongue plate are slightly twisted?
 
AshTay said:
Everyday is a school day!
Can you tell that because the loops that link to the tongue plate are slightly twisted?
Click to expand...

Looking at the picture, the rings and the sides are sitting flat, but I dont think the plate is lying flat, I think its tipping towards us slightly. (the shine of the flash at the top, and the fact that the top edge looks slightly longer than the bottom edge makes me think its on an angle, but so hard to really tell in a photo!) In a french link, the sides and the plate all lie on the same level.

It really is easier to see if you can get hold of one and poke it and prod it! (And would be happy to be proved wrong if that is the case, might buy it just to find out!!!)
 
The sentence you editted into your response about it being upside down was what i was thinking when i was trying to figure out how you could tell it wasn't simply a french link.
Thank you for the explanation! I have learned something. And on a friday too!
 
Aaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrggggggghhhhhhhhh!!!! Roundings!!!!!

*runs to a corner, rocks back and forth*
 
tallyho! said:
Aaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrggggggghhhhhhhhh!!!! Roundings!!!!!

*runs to a corner, rocks back and forth*
Click to expand...

Lol i equally hate them, whats the point of having a bit that you can use individually to give different effects and then make it so you dont have the individual action? But thats a whole different topic

so back to numptys selling bits.....
 
We have a response from the person listing the pelham as part of a double bridle.

"Hi,
Thank you.
I did not know it was that technical - I've never ridden in a double bridle.
Can you tell me the difference OR can you confirm that I can call the bit I've listed a weymouth.
~Thank you"
 
I feel there should be the idea that like you get a professional saddle fitter to fit a saddle, some sort of "expert" should be consulted before putting anything new in your horses mouth.
Click to expand...

Going back to the original post, does anyone know of such experts in Cambs area?!

It would be good to have someone out with lots of different bits and have them properly fitted and try them out under proper supervision. Have been experimenting with some bits my RI has loaned me, she doesn't have a 'complete library'!
 
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