Oh gawd

[Spudlet]

I'm sorry, I know you must be sick of hearing from me by now but I really need to get this down somewhere to try and make sense of it.... please feel free to ignore it though.

Henry seems to have gone backwards by miles lately

He has gone from having had an ok recall most of the time, to nothing at all today and it's very demoralising

I think it is due to the damned longline - it's all very well but I can't physically give him enough exercise on that thing, there are not enough hours in the day, so he is getting steadily naughtier and naughtier, making it even harder for me to let him off.

I really don't know what to do anymore, I can see the idea behind using a line but it's only making things worse at the moment - ot lony does it stop him getting enough exercise but I spend the whole time untangling it. It's just not practical at all.

There is also nowhere for me to walk him that doesn't have distractions. The park where I live is always full of kids and dogs, has no fence between it and a main road and has a huge duckpond so it's hopeless. Everywhere else is overrun with rabbits and pheasants so also no good - he's just constantly distracted.

Today when I let him off the line he just vanished off for ages - I lost him for about 10 minutes. He's normally fairly good at staying close but today he just vanished off completely. It just feels like any kind of bond I had with him has gone

I just don't know what to do anymore. I don't want to give him up but after today I don't know if I can carry on like this and I'm out of ideas.

 

[kirstyhen]

When you let him off the long line are you letting him off completely or just letting go of it?

I can completely sympathise, Otto often has days where I just want to leave him in the woods or sit down and cry!

 

[Booboos]

Poor you, sounds like you're having a tough time!

Try to hang in there, it often gets worse before it gets any better! Sometimes it takes a while before a dog clicks to what you want it to do, and recall problems are the most frustrating! Some dogs also seem to go through a 'teenage' phase when they forget everything they have learnt and regress. It all does come back though!

Meanwhile, is there an enclosed space you could exercise him at? I don't know where you live but is there a fenced in area near you (perhaps a friendly farmer with a fenced in field or a sports court or similar?) you could use to allow him to let off some steam? Training can help a lot with excess energy, even doing things in your living room uses up a lot of mental energy and can help a lot with dogs that are full of it. Maybe work with him on something fun (roll over, go target the rug, dance on a log, etc.) which you can do indoors?

Another idea is to do a bit of agility (if he is very young avoid jumps) which you can do in your garden. Create little jumps or weave poles or objects he can jump on or go under, etc. A little obstacle course does not require a lot of space, but it could really give him something to focus his energy on.

Best of luck and keep thinking positive!!!

 

[Spudlet]

Normally I have been letting go of it but today it got tangled so many times I gave up and let him off.... cue 'See ya sucker!'

Eventually got him coming back after a fashion by ducking down and hiding, good job I had my horrible long riding mac on cos it was raining and the bracken was soaked

Once he realised I kept vanishing he kept a closer eye on me, and was then able to tempt him back by playing games with sticks.

I did walk off and leave him in the woods, and at one point I was almost in tears, and he's now shut in the kitchen on his own cos he's still misbehaving

 

[Spudlet]

Thanks Booboos

He's not really a baby anymore - just bad to the bone

We had done some training this morning but he was still full of it, it didn't help that he saw a squirrel right at the start of the walk so was totally wired

He's going to the dog sitters this week as I am going abroad with work again so won't get him back until Thursday night. I think a break from him will do me good, although I could do without a trip at this time of year as probably like everyone I am knackered and really need the Christmas break

 

[Godknows]

Although I never have dogs only bitches (as I find they don't go off when bitches come into season in the area). Now the thing about hiding

When ours are young and I take them for a walk I always hide from them. This way they will keep checking where you are our dogs have never strayed further than 20 yards without checking where we are (except on the shoots) But always come back. Good luck don't give up (what breed have your got?) Sorry first time I've read your posts so I'm certainly not bored with your questions

 

[kirstyhen]

If he's anything like Otto it will take him a week of running around like a loon and wearing himself out off the long line completely, before he will start to behave again, so don't panic just yet.
Winter is the best time for naughty doggies, shorter days means shorter walks so more excess energy and the cold air is just perfect for running wild, so training at this time of year is extra hard.
Keep perservering, and you can always count on us for moral support!

 

[Spudlet]

Thank you, I certianly need some moral support right now as I could cheerfully have got into the car and gone home on my own today

Hello Godknows, welcome to AAD

Henry is a Cocker Spaniel, he turned two in August.I got him from the Dogs Trust in January of this year.

I spent a lot of time hiding from him in the spring and he had been doing ok, his recall was passable if not perfect, and he was distracted by things such as horsepoo, squirrels, rabbits and other dogs but in the absence of those things he was good and I even got complimented a few times for having a well trained dog, but things seem to have gone downhill rapidly over the last few weeks

Took him back to the Dogs Trust yesterday to get some help from their behaviourist who advised me to longline train him and use his instincts to work - he is a show type who initially had no instinct at all but he was also obese, and as he has got fitter his instinct has surfaced more and more

At least he will be running around like a loon with someone else I guess

I may need to find a new dog sitter after this week

 

[kirstyhen]

If it helps any...

When we got Otto he was like a Child that had been locked in a room with no human interation (mainly because I think he had been!) he registered absolutely nothing, and I mean nothing! Several times we were convinced he was absolutely stone deaf!!
If we hid from Otto it didn't make the slightest bit of difference, he would just keep running around, so at least you've got that! Otto had to literally be rugby tackled to get him back on the lead!!
That was Novemeber last year and now he's been beating, something I never thought he would be able to do.
So you will get there, sometimes you just end up going back a few steps before you get there (especially when Spangles are involved, when you usually and up running full tilt backwards

)

 

[Spudlet]

[ QUOTE ]
you usually and up running full tilt backwards

)

[/ QUOTE ]

Tried that, it didn't work but I did almost fall on my bum

It does help, I need to know that it will actually be possible to turn this little reprobate into a Really Useful Doglet, so it's good to know someone else has managed it!

 

[Spudlet]

Hmph. It appears that Henry did not like being locked in the kitchen, and so took his revenge by getting as comfortable as caninely possible:

On TOP of his crate, which coincidentally is where all the clean laundry was sitting

Gah, I give up.... he looked so comfy I couldn't even tell him off! In fairness the insert of his bed was on there too while the cover dries off (washed for Christmas) although he did also have a perfectly acceptable alternative bed inside the crate....

 

[FestiveSpirit]

Now HOW could you get cross with that little angelic face

Bear with him H, he will get better, it just might take longer than you would like

Whispers.... even Islay came when she was called the other day on a walk - which is nothing short of a miracle I can assure you!

 

[kirstyhen]

Spaniels are never happier than when curled up on your clean washing!

 

[frankie7]

if it is any help i have the same trouble with Chimo (british inuit)she is 2 as well.

Sometimes she is good as gold and comes back, but other times (especialy as soon as she sees the car) she will go deaf and just not come back.

I have tried hiding and she will come and look for me but stays at a distance so i cant grab her! i lost her for 10 minutes in the dark the other week (it was raining as well so i was really happy to be out!!) then i saw her light (they wear them round their necks) and i still could not get her back, i was playing with the other dog and jumping round looking like and idiot and still nothing... i even tried driving off! i got out again and was looking for my phone to call the OH to come and help and she just appeared and jumped straight in the car and just looked at me going "oh sorry Mum did you want me?" Arrrggghhh!!! was so tempted just to leave her there!!

she is the same at school. if she is on the lead she comes straigt away, the minute i let her off to do a recall she is off running round and round!!!

 

[CorvusCorax]

Hiya, like the others said, stick at it!!!
Have you been keeping up the focus training at home, the 'look at me' stuff? And does he just totally lose it with distractions?

I know with B, even before a walk I need to run him a bit in our field (I wish you were closer, you could borrow it)

He may also improve a lot once you go down the working route, I know B did - when we first started training I had to have him out for 30 minutes before we went to class because he was too wired to think - just got onto the training field and went DOGS! GRASS! PEOPLE! A LEAF! WOW!
Once he 'got it' and started to use his brain, he did all his exercise, mental and physical at training and came home every week totally knackered.

If you get really desperate, you could try hand feeding (I did that, made B a bit submissive TBH but you could always try it)
let me know if you want it explaining.

I know how hard it is to get focus from an adult dog with a nose for adventure, but trust me, it does get better.

 

[Patches]

Gah! I know the feeling so well. Jasper used to be a toad and consequently never got let off the lead towards the end.

I just couldn't catch him. He would make for the nearest water and swim around aimlessly after Canada Geese until we could fashion something to hook him out with!

 

[Spudlet]

Hey there

Once we get out there his little head explodes

The guy yesterday said that actually when he really focusses on a scent he won't be able to hear me because his whole mind is concentrating on his nose

At home he is great, retrieves like a pro, the lot.... we have been working on it....

Hey ho...

 

[Slinkyunicorn]

I know I shouldn't laugh at the washing photo but......

I can't begin to tell you how many times I have had to put washing BACK in the washing machine because St Sweep thought it made a nice bed to sleep on......

As for recall well as you know St Sweep is largely very good but does have the occaisional 'moment' - no sure if it is because he really is deaf or just selective hearing......

If you ever need somewhere for Henry to stay he can come and stay here with Sweep and Max-i-moo!! He can't get into any trouble here.....

and i am used to dogs with 'special needs'

 

[Cop-Pop]

Keep going with him - they like trying us

Yellow Dog can have perfect manners and recall one day and then the next day it appears as though he's never had a days training in his life

My goldie was a real terror - it wasnt until she ran off and got lost that she stopped bugg*ring off into the distance.

 

[Ravenwood]

HH - tell me exactly how you recall him, step by step.

 

[Spudlet]

OK:

He walks on lead.

He sits and waits while the lead is taken off.

At the release command, he can go and wander.

The recall signal is two pips on the whistle, at this point I am trying to only do this when I have half a chance of catching his attention - ie when his head is up!

He comes back, and is praised and treated, either with food or with a game such as throwing a stick into the undergrowth for him to hunt.

As long as we were just practicing and there is no danger, he gets to go straight off again.

We do it all again!

He was coming back a good 80% of the time, but lately he has been deaf

He has always been deaf in the face of other dogs, but recently he has actually come back to me from them - the trouble is that because the other owner turned and walked off (obviously didn't want his dogs to play) I couldn't use meeting the dogs as a reward for that

So now he has started bombing off again.

 

[Goya]

Oh H. poor you. I totally sympathise because, as you all know I am having the same problems with Skye.
It is just sooooooo frustrating. I have read all the replies with interest to see if any would work for Skye.
I am so sorry I can't help, but if it is any consolation you are not alone!

 

[Ravenwood]

Hmmmm, I can't think of anything else to suggest then I'm afraid - I was hoping something would leap out at me when you described how you called him back - but it hasn't!

 

[Spudlet]

Thank you guys

Today I called a local gundog kennels for their advice - turns out the lady I spoke to runs puppy classes once a month as part of NOBS (the beaters organisation/forum Henmeister directed me to). So next month Henry and I are going along. We had a long chat and she doesn't think he is necessarily beyond redemption

and thinks I could learn a lot even if we just go and watch (good for Henry too, to sit and watch without diving in like a loon). So will see what she says after she has met him

- we may be ejected and told never to darken their field again...

In the meantime the long line is going to be ditched as much as possible, and on Friday we are going back to the beach and I am going to walk the paws off him

We will also do lots of practicing at home and work.

Thank you for all your words of support, I was feeling so low about it all yesterday as it felt like we had gone back months. But analysing it in the cold light of day I can see why - he was underexercised thanks to the line, I was already annoyed as a result of us getting tangled up terribly with the line and I tried to dive straight in without letting him run some steam off first. So it's not surprising we had a bad time really, and it is all my own fault

I am tired, coming down with a cold, stressed about work and really ready for a break so am not in a good state of mind to be dealing with this properly either.

Onwards and upwards!

 

[Slinkyunicorn]

HA!!

Henry is off to school!!

He can't be any worse than our old lab who got asked to leave twice!!

Have fun at the beach!! If you are passing through here over Christmas stop off and Henry can go for a hoon around with the Max-i-moo

ETA - shoddy spelling

 

[Spudlet]

OK, that was exhausting....

Have just spent ages walking him off lead (way longer than I should have

) - once again he was stone-deaf and ran for miles and miles and miles - it was just like when I very first started letting him off-lead if not worse

So I went right back to the start and started hiding from him again

Which was starting to have an effect by the end as he began keepng a closer eye on me.

I hope we can get it back again soon

 

[CorvusCorax]

How food driven is he?
What is he like at mealtimes? Does he go mad for food?

 

[Spudlet]

He does - but even very high value food rewards like liver and hotdogs cannot trump what comes in through his nose

 

[CorvusCorax]

If you want to try the hand feeding - all food he gets, comes from you.
I think it could work well for you because you spend all day together.

What he gets normally every day at mealtimes, tip it into the pocket of a bodywarmer or an old coat. Preferably a breast pocket so he is looking up.
And feed him from there, out of your hand. Always wear this coat when training. So he works for his food. You may get his focus back this way, it is a great way to get focus.

I don't want to get flamed for this, it works for some dogs, it doesn't for others, you could ask independent advice or try it for a few days - a week.

I know a lot of people have used it with great success in puppies (working trials training though) but I don't know if it would conflict with gundog training. Perhaps others could advise.

Just an idea.

(Awaits flaming)

 

[Ravenwood]

I've just had another thought! When we are teaching the stop whistle which is done in a controlled environment (well a field anyway!) if the dog doesn't immediately stop (or ignores the whistle) I actually run out after him, drag him back to the spot where he was when I had blown the whistle, blow the whistle again and make him sit there - on that very spot. You only have to do it a few times and they get the message! (When I say drag - I don't mean by his ears or tail!! I just mean take his scruff and walk him back)

Perhaps you could try that with Henry - recall when he is close by and the very second he ignores you - run after him and drag him back - might work - might not - but worth trying