Oh my... saddle fitters!

[maya2008]

WHY? Sorry, rant over! Guy no.1 made my horse rear repeatedly last winter by fitting it too tightly so when I got on to check he went straight up...repeatedly. In the end it was me who had to help figure out where the flocking needed to change. Only wanted £30, though if you had given me the flocking iron I probably could have got it done quicker.

So this time...give guy no.1 the benefit of the doubt and ring him. But I think we scared him last winter as he has cancelled twice now.

So I look around, find someone else and contact them. They want £80, but won't re-flock an old saddle, or a second hand saddle to a new horse. I expected to perhaps be asked to pay for a full panel re-flock but a 'I don't do that'.....really?

Anyone know how you train as a saddle fitter? Only half joking here. At least then I could get my horses' saddles sorted on time and without issues!!!!

 

[Whoopit]

I don’t feel you can trust anyone who says they’re a saddle fitter! I’ve had terrible experiences with them. Need to purchase a Dressage saddle and I’m near terrified to do so 😀

 

[Barton Bounty]

Thats why i have had to take it into my own hands! Two apparently qualified ‘master saddlers’ fitted my horse wrongly! Rage!!!! Cost me over £2k in saddles and £1k in getting them up and down trying to fit! Im the same, dont feel like i can trust anyone.

 

[maya2008]

Thats why i have had to take it into my own hands!

Did you find a course then, or a book, or...?

 

[Barton Bounty]

No lol, i just read about every piece of information on the internet on how to fit my own 😊

 

[Barton Bounty]

To take a course is about £2500 but apparently you still have to train with a qualified saddle fitter as an apprentice, i did all my research and since i cant trust them i thought fk that lol

 

[milliepops]

So I look around, find someone else and contact them. They want £80, but won't re-flock an old saddle, or a second hand saddle to a new horse. I expected to perhaps be asked to pay for a full panel re-flock but a 'I don't do that'.....really?

I've also been in the infuriating position of being told that people won't reflock an old saddle. I was told by a locally respected saddler that a visibly lumpy panel wasn't that bad and to just use a gel pad

I fit my own now, I have been taught over the years by experienced folk what to look for and the horse is then the best judge. obv i can't do any adjustments or flocking but I tend to have flair (can adjust myself) or foam panels by choice so it's less of an issue. I have currently got a wool flocked saddle on one horse but fortunately it was Ok how it came. At some point it's likely he will need something else and then it will be back running the gauntlet of fitters/2nd hand saddles

 

[maya2008]

I can fit (which makes it worse when the fitter is bloody useless because I have to point out where they are going wrong!) but can’t flock...

 

[JillA]

The only one I know who I would trust is Ingeborg Taffijn, who visits the UK every month or two from The Netherlands. She was trained by Schleese (SaddleFor4Life) in Canada for over three months, and checks not only the head but the placing of the billets, shape of the points and gullet, shape of flocking at rest and ridden at all three paces. She can adjust (if the saddle is adjustable) and reflock on site but for that you will pay well over £100. You gets what you pays for. https://www.facebook.com/inge.taffijn

 

[sbloom]

I'm not going to get into this too much, as a professional and well regarded fitter this is a very hard thread to see come up so often.

So I look around, find someone else and contact them. They want £80, but won't re-flock an old saddle, or a second hand saddle to a new horse. I expected to perhaps be asked to pay for a full panel re-flock but a 'I don't do that'.....really?

Anyone know how you train as a saddle fitter? Only half joking here. At least then I could get my horses' saddles sorted on time and without issues!!!!

I don't do full reflocks, I learned to do them at the beginning and did maybe 3 of them in the first 5 years. That's no way to keep your skillset up so I recommend customers go to a well regarded Master Saddler and then I can come out and adjust the saddle, this way you get the best people for each job.

The only one I know who I would trust is Ingeborg Taffijn, who visits the UK every month or two from The Netherlands. She was trained by Schleese (SaddleFor4Life) in Canada for over three months, and checks not only the head but the placing of the billets, shape of the points and gullet, shape of flocking at rest and ridden at all three paces. She can adjust (if the saddle is adjustable) and reflock on site but for that you will pay well over £100. You gets what you pays for. https://www.facebook.com/inge.taffijn

Any good fitter should do all of that, but any good saddle fitter may cost over £100 if you include travel and adjustment fees. I spend a minimum of 75 minutes on a saddle check, 2.5 hours for a new saddle fit. I would also say that SF4L is very thorough training but it very different to fitting regular English saddles, many SF4L trained fitters will pick and choose which technique they apply to which saddle but I have seen websites of SF4L fitter where clearly they were applying their principles to English made saddles that should be fitted in quite a different way. Definitely not one size fits all.

 

[milliepops]

I'm not going to get into this too much, as a professional and well regarded fitter this is a very hard thread to see come up so often.

I'm sure it does suck to see so many people moaning about their experiences. The problem is, as a client, it does happen quite often

Your point about keeping up a skillset is a good one. I would have been happy to have that as an explanation, personally, but when I was told to just shove a gel pad under a lumpy saddle instead, that person went vastly down in my estimations. That's what the good fitters are up against, because that kind of experience sticks in your mind!

 

[Whoopit]

I'm not going to get into this too much, as a professional and well regarded fitter this is a very hard thread to see come up so often.



I don't do full reflocks, I learned to do them at the beginning and did maybe 3 of them in the first 5 years. That's no way to keep your skillset up so I recommend customers go to a well regarded Master Saddler and then I can come out and adjust the saddle, this way you get the best people for each job..

So I am aware of a Master Saddler in my vicinity and I wouldn’t let them flock my peddle bike saddle, never mind one for a horse. I know they’re banned entirely from one yard near their home base, and I know of at least 7 horses including my own that have all had bad backs from saddles fitted and or flocked by this supposed Master Saddler.

I appreciate it is difficult to see this sort of thing come up when it’s your profession but it feels a very similar area to the likes of people labelling themselves “equine dentists”?? Might just be my perception on that!

 

[Inda]

The only one I know who I would trust is Ingeborg Taffijn, who visits the UK every month or two from The Netherlands. She was trained by Schleese (SaddleFor4Life) in Canada for over three months, and checks not only the head but the placing of the billets, shape of the points and gullet, shape of flocking at rest and ridden at all three paces. She can adjust (if the saddle is adjustable) and reflock on site but for that you will pay well over £100. You gets what you pays for. https://www.facebook.com/inge.taffijn

I went to one of her talks and was really impressed. Was going to save up and get one when the muppet stopped growing. However, she was adement I wanted the jumping saddle for a youngster, rather than the one designed by schleese for young horses. I've been conflicted ever since.

 

[cobgoblin]

I went to one of her talks and was really impressed. Was going to save up and get one when the muppet stopped growing. However, she was adement I wanted the jumping saddle for a youngster, rather than the one designed by schleese for young horses. I've been conflicted ever since.

Can I ask why she was insisting on a jump saddle?

 

[Inda]

I couldn't get it out of her, just that it was the one for young horses, which isn't what she had said in the masterclass or what Johan schleese said. I don't want to jump, I stressed it was for general hacking but, dunno, the emails back and forth went on for months. I had really liked the Remonte, and been happy to pay for it, and her fitting costs. She wanted to sell and fit the Jete.

I guess she just didn't like it? I have a baroque PRE, no part of her says I need an M2M jumping saddle. So she's getting backed in a caveletti GP and I'll deal with schleese in a few years. If she had given me a reason it would have been more understandable.

 

[Barton Bounty]

Half the time i dont know what planet they are on! I mean, my boy changes shape from winter to summer all i needed was an adjustable saddle! First saddle fitter fitted a 17” high wither gp kent and masters! Hes not even got high withers, waited 6 weeks for that brand new , she came to fit it and it was completely the wrong saddle so she came with a bates 17” gp which was massive i thought but she insisted it was fine! It actually started pressing on his lumber! So got someone else out and she told me I needed an ideal deal 17 gp med/wide so again trusted her and it was absolute pish so now lost all faith in any of them 🙄

So right now i have a 16.5 thorowgood wide pony saddle on him which fits but come winter it wont 🤷🏼‍♀️

 

[maya2008]

Any good fitter should do all of that, but any good saddle fitter may cost over £100 if you include travel and adjustment fees. I spend a minimum of 75 minutes on a saddle check, 2.5 hours for a new saddle fit.

Scrap the not being serious about taking a course, I spent 4 years at university to earn £25 per hour (education) and I pay for my own travel! For £2.5k + time spent being an apprentice, earning £80 per hour sounds very attractive!

 

[Slightlyconfused]

Scrap the not being serious about taking a course, I spent 4 years at university to earn £25 per hour (education) and I pay for my own travel! For £2.5k + time spent being an apprentice, earning £80 per hour sounds very attractive!

The problem is you will still need to take out of that £80 money for tax, insurance, any other running costs you have so it doesn't go far when you think about it.

 

[milliepops]

and you won't be working 9-5 kind of regular hours :/

 

[Wheels]

..then there's holding stock / demo saddles, girths, pads, stirrups, bridles, running a van, being on call pretty much 24/7, keeping up to date with CPD etc.

 

[Darkly_Dreaming_Dex]

I don’t sell saddles, only reflock existing and have been busy for over 30 years without a single advert, all my work is word of mouth recommendations and having read this thread I have realised why I am so busy as clearly it’s a rare service I offer (oh and I need to considerably increase my charges!)

And that seems depressing that honest saddle reflocking is so difficult to find

 

[maya2008]

The problem is you will still need to take out of that £80 money for tax, insurance, any other running costs you have so it doesn't go far when you think about it.

I have been a co-director of a business (shop with employees, large amount of stock etc - earned us a fair whack when we sold it!) and have been self-employed. £80 per hour is still really good money, unless you only have one client per day. For most of those saddles you are only using a little bit of flocking and giving your time (as usually anything more than that and the saddler charges more money). Initial set-up costs money that you have to leave in the business (then get back if/when you sell it) for van, second-hand stock etc, but you earn money on those saddles you sell, and all costs are tax deductible.

And I currently work weird hours, getting home at 11pm some nights, weekends included, with a v long commute and travel costs.

 

[cobgoblin]

Scrap the not being serious about taking a course, I spent 4 years at university to earn £25 per hour (education) and I pay for my own travel! For £2.5k + time spent being an apprentice, earning £80 per hour sounds very attractive!

You could easily pay 2.5k for two badly fitted saddles these days.. Or even just one.
The course is beginning to look like a bargain even if one never does saddle fitting professionally.
.

 

[Barton Bounty]

Yeah but its the 4 years apprenticeship required, i earn decent money between my two jobs just now so couldnt afford not to have them 😶

 

[sbloom]

Scrap the not being serious about taking a course, I spent 4 years at university to earn £25 per hour (education) and I pay for my own travel! For £2.5k + time spent being an apprentice, earning £80 per hour sounds very attractive!

How on earth do you come up with £80 an hour? I spend more time in the van than with customers, so my days are often 16 hours long to be able to fit an economic number of fits in, I have plenty of hours working with no pay (like up to 50%) at my desk, dealing with stock, marketing, customer service, THEN add overheads (and overruns, underruns and cancellations, it's not easy to be able to get on with much else when sat in a layby twiddling your thumbs though I always try)! So I'm earning an "hourly rate" for maybe 1/3 of my overall working time, at the very most.

I work 6 days a week, frequently long hours. I can't commit to exercise classes or any other classes as my diary is never regular, I struggle to have a social life (after all, unless I do two early starts and late finishes back to back it means most evenings are either non-existent as I'm not home till 8pm earliest or need an early night as I'm up at 5) and would struggle to have a horse even if I could afford one. If I go on holiday there will be people clamouring for a saddle fit and upset I can't do it in a timely manner that suits them (and of course it's hard for all self employed to take holidays).

Overall I love my job but thinking I'm earning £80 an hour is laughable, then add in all of that....!

As for a master saddler being very poor, there are good and bad all over. But they are qualified to do a strip flock on a saddle, hence my recommendation. There will be very good ones out there too, same applies in all professions, saying that the person.

 

[JillA]

Yeah but its the 4 years apprenticeship required, i earn decent money between my two jobs just now so couldnt afford not to have them 😶

Is that the Master Saddlers scheme? I don't have much faith in it because a lot of it is apprenticed to/being mentored by an existing MS fitter. And judging by the regular posts on here a lot of them aren't that great - and will pass on their poor skills and lack of attention to detail to any students. SFFL is good but expensive, I don't know what other schemes there are (sbloom?) Ideally a combination of SFFL and MS registration maybe?

 

[sbloom]

I trained with the company I fit for but it was extremely thorough, I do CPD, and work with the team within the company so we learn from each other. I refrain from commenting on the SMS, there are good and bad all over, no matter the qualification or lack of. There is the MSFC which is not without issues, then the individual training offered by companies, one well known one is two days long and most of the first day is a guided tour of the factory!

And ultimately eventually, most customers change saddle fitter, it's just a fact. Things go wrong. Is that the fault entirely of each and every fitter, that they're massively incompetent, or is it that we all do our best, but there are still gaps in our whole understanding of saddle fit? That some horses respond to some approaches but not others, and horses change in which approach they respond to over time? And that customers often don't understand their responsibility in keeping a saddle fitting and a horse's back healthy.

After all look at how many customers put the saddle on in the wrong place despite being shown many times where it should be? I have had someone use the wrong girth straps despite being told at two fittings, and writing down, what the correct girth straps are, and in this case it led to serious issues for the horse as the saddle was sitting in totally the wrong place. Unnecessary injections followed!

How many know they are too heavy for their saddle or their horse but ride anyway? How many educate themselves in how to incorporate non-ridden work to maintain back strength? As riders and owners we do all sorts of bad things to horses yet it's always the saddle fitter's fault....if you use some logic it can't be true that almost all saddle fitters are rubbish and that's the end of the story.

 

[ycbm]

..then there's holding stock / demo saddles, girths, pads, stirrups, bridles, running a van, being on call pretty much 24/7, keeping up to date with CPD etc.

No holiday pay, no sick pay, no pension, bad debts, accountant's fees,......

I do feel sorry for you constantly reading threads like this, SBloom. You are obviously really good at what you do, and your fee is very reasonable for the service you provide.

If only your profession could get rid of the people like the expensive and very experienced big-brand fitter who has just told a friend of mine to use a thick pad to raise a saddle that's too narrow, for a baby just learning its job under saddle

.

 

[Green Bean]

What annoys me is how cut throat it all is. I have bought 3 secondhand saddles from the same saddle fitter and had them fitted and checked after a year and feel my horse is comfortable in them but then a Chiropractor comes out and raises an eyebrow when I say the saddles have been fitted and my horse seems happy with them. She had some issues with her back but I get huffy when one specialist raises and eyebrow about another. I don’t know who is right, so what do I do? Get a third person who will say something else?

 

[milliepops]

What annoys me is how cut throat it all is. I have bought 3 secondhand saddles from the same saddle fitter and had them fitted and checked after a year and feel my horse is comfortable in them but then a Chiropractor comes out and raises an eyebrow when I say the saddles have been fitted and my horse seems happy with them. She had some issues with her back but I get huffy when one specialist raises and eyebrow about another. I don’t know who is right, so what do I do? Get a third person who will say something else?

well in this instance I possibly would get a third person in since you don't seen to have a gut feeling on who to trust and aren't sure yourself.

If the horse has pain in its back that could reasonably be caused by saddle fit then I would say the horse is "telling the truth" and it would be a bit short sighted to ignore that. Horses are stoics and some will put up with tack that doesn't fit brilliantly without really complaining so it's understandable if a rider doesn't notice immediately. it's awkward when you get stuck between 2 professionals but that's when it's helpful if you can find 2 that will work together to solve a problem.