OK "Getting your horse in an outline" question

[MrsMagoo]

i used to ride the normal, legs asking for them forward and hands moving to ask for bend and outline etc...

But since having Star and a new dressage instructor, that has all changed. With her we do alot of circles in sitting trot, making sure Star is using her hind and coming underheath, then instead of pulling or asking on the mouth, I give with each rein. She then takes the contact herself and feels lovely. I've now been taught that the feel on the reins shouldnt be like your pulling against them, more like pushing!!! Like some people above I also ride with my hands higer and together, suppose the classical approach..

 

[Sal_E]

MM - I recognise that approach! Is your instructor's initials ML by any chance?

 

[not_with_it]

It all really depends on the horse. I like to ride with a loose contact geting the horse to take the contact forward.
Im lucky in the way that Gin is well schooled and goes into an outline when I take up the contact. The problem with her is that she tries to avoid taking weight on her hind legs. Therefore I use lots of lateral movements such as half pass, pirouettes, leg yield etc to get her to take weight back. I think its not so much how you get your horse in an outline that makes them work properly its more what you do with them when you are there.
Position has a lot to do with it, if you can sit up and keep your lower leg wrapped it helps the horse balance and become more confident.

 

[Vicki1986]

when i bought my pony i was told she would never work in an outline as she just refuses to.

so i am delighted to say she now does - when worked in properly - not neccesarily perfectly/consistantly but its a dam sight better than having her ears in my face..and feeling that lovely spring when it all comes together is lovely.

i do it by working in for 20 mins minimum then taking up a solid contact but not pulling, ensuring my hands are a hips width apart and holding them steady, slowing up the pace and applying the leg - not kicking as that just brings excess speed, but by sqeezing the leg and seat. x

 

[siennamum]

I never actively ask a horse to work 'on the bit' in a straight line. If I have warmed up and I want more roundness, or the horse to work 'on the bit' then it is always inside leg to outside hand, which is invariably because I'm on a circle or could be with a shoulder in.
It always works and I teach the children to do the same.
There is no pulling or fiddling, and you are working from back to front.
I believe that you cannot get a soft or supple back if there is any tension in the neck. I will ask a horse to be soft in it's neck, and submissive & relaxed, then ask for more engagement etc.

 

[AmyMay]

I think that it also very difficult if not impossible for some horses to work in an outline due to their confirmation - and no amount of battleing will solve that particular problem.

 

[druid]

Like my ickle fat cob with a huge but v.short neck!!

 

[EllieBeast]

My mare finds it difficult, especially when we first started working with her. we had to work in short bursts as her muscles were developed on the underside of her neck more than her topline. she is much better than she was. however she is built quite downhill and is large around the shoulder.
she is a little croup high - as you can see which doesnt help. her neck is more developed than it looks here, as she has a bib clip which makes it look more feeble! lol

 

[AmyMay]

[ QUOTE ]
Like my ickle fat cob with a huge but v.short neck!!

[/ QUOTE ]
Precisly!!!!

 

[MrsMagoo]

Why yes you could be correct there!!

do you have her to? what do you think of her approach?

 

[henryhorn]

LEC Having seen you ride I know you're lying!!!

 

[Tierra]

Its true some horses finding working in an outline very very difficult (and possibly painful) due to conformation. One of the things we look for in potential dressages horses is the with between the jawbone and the atlas vertebra which is a good indication of whether the horse is going to be able to free its jaw and soften at the poll. I used to have a beautiful welsh cob x hanoverian who had very little room between these two points which meant that when he tried to bend at the poll, his salivary gland would get pressed outwards and restrict him

The problem with outline work is that its easy to become so preoccupied with getting their heads down

 

[Seahorse]

I do about 10-15 mins of 'long and low' work first in trot, I then pick up a contact and do lots of sending on and bringing back in trot and canter. I do a few walk/trot transitions and half halts and by then Axey is normally nice and round. If he isn't I do some very slow sitting trot on a circle giving with my hands to get him really nice and round.
I like to have a nice contact on my outside rein and give with my inside rein lots, or give with both reins. We do lots of leg yielding and shoulder in, 10 m circles, spiralling in and out on a circle in trot and canter. I also like to ride a 'square' with a 1/4 turn on the forehand on the corners in walk. Mainly loads of exercises to get his inside hind underneath him. I often let him have a stretch down halfway through the session.
However I do ride with draw reins on at the moment as Axey is going through a 'flip top head' phase, and will, given the chance go around with his head horizontal, so much so I can see his blaze!
I use them for the first half of the session, then tie them in a knot and leave them on his neck and don't touch them. This is working well now and I'm planning on leaving them off soon.

 

[BBs]

Over the years this has so changed, used to squeeze with the outside rein, kick with the inside leg, then just squeeze both reins - god it got confusing.

Now I have been doing something very similar to what you see SJers do when then come into the ring - but without sawing.

Its a very definiate open the inside rein, getting the horse to bend and lift its wither/shoulder whilst obviously using your leg!

Once the horse gives then you can straighten and ride your horse forward up into the contact. This in turn engages the back end and connects the horse up.

It works very well on all the horses I have ridden in the past year of so, without niggling and fiddling!

However, it is very important you do not cross your hands over the wither you must open that rein up and out! if you cross the rein you will block your horse which basically means you are working against the horse.

 

[racingdemon]

errrrrrrrrrr.....

pickles, i tend to walk for about 5 mins, then straight into trot & then squeeze him like a tube of tooth paste until he starts to step under & use his back, he likes to know your hand is there & works nicely into a contact, if you don't 'hold' the reins, he won't take the contact & will shove his head in the air

ian on the other hand requires totally different riding, and likes little or no actual contact until he decides he want s to take it (if that makes sense) he is still at the stage where his head wobbles esp in trot, but he;s improving (TBH i'm not so fussed about a wobbly head, his legs come thorough from behind and his back is soft & round, so he isn't consistant in taking the contact (& is so sensitive in the mouth you can't hold something that isn't there) but as he gets more confident & stronger that will improve, to get him to the stage where he is happy to take the contact he needs 100x more leg than pickles, and lots of transitions & circles

but i am rubbish at dressage so TBH am probably not the best person to ask

 

[leanne123]

molineux my horse is very tense too, if you put any leg on him at all in the first 10 to 15 mins of riding he just shoots off, really un nerving but if you try to take a stronger contact with him it comes down to a big fight with him dragging me around the school.
but i've know realised if i sit really quite and have a good trot round until he relaxes he will start to co operate better, but still won't drop into an outline while maintaing impulsion yet.
hence we are starting lessons on thursday.
we maybe be able to get the hang of walking soon i hope, as going hell for leather round the school is really knocking what confidence i have left with the big lad.
but still deep down i know theres a good horse just waiting to come out and suprise me (sooner would be better than later though)