Ok guys, I need some schooling ideas for a very difficult horse..

[kayleigh_and_rocky]

Yes i know what you are all saying - and actually saddle might be a problem (owners just use his mums saddle - they bred the horse themselves)

Amymay - when i said Hey Ho what else could I say? I cant make them pay can I? There was no need for such an arsey response I am asking for genuine experiences and advice here.

Henryhorn - Yes horse is definately bored of schooling though still stops and plants out hacking but no so badly. But what can I do? Owners want me to school it - they're very difficult people to work with - i've suggested loads of different things and anything that requires me going out of the school other than for a 20minute romp around the road is a HUGE no. There is a professional gallops available to rent for a small amount of money opposite their farm - this would really benefit him but when i suggested it blimey.

I honestly 100% do NOT think it is a back problem, but teeth and saddle may well be a problem but i can guarantee she will not get saddle person out and prob not dentist, so what do i do? Refuse to ride the horse?

I'm not a confrontational person so instead of being mean (not directed at HH anymore) can someone PLEASE advice me as to how to approach this with the owner as i have tried and quite frankly she can be rather nasty.

 

[AmyMay]

[ QUOTE ]
Amymay - when i said Hey Ho what else could I say? I cant make them pay can I? There was no need for such an arsey response I am asking for genuine experiences and advice here.

[/ QUOTE ]
It wasn't an arsy response - I was stating my astonishment that someone purporting to be a professional would not at that point have said that they would not ride the horse until these things had been checked. Plain and simple.

 

[kayleigh_and_rocky]

Yes well I AM saying that to her and have tried on two other occasions but then the horse has decided to show me up and behave for two weeks and then behaviour deteriorates again and then improves and then deteriorates etc

I don't know what purporting means, sorry, but yes i AM a professional but I am a newly professional and I am finding confrontation with owners VERY hard - particularly with this owner as she is very mean at times and has the amazing ability to make me feel stupid! However as other more encouraging people have said I have to have more faith in myself and put my foot down and say that as a professional i will not ride a horse that has the slightest possibility that it is in discomfort.

 

[AmyMay]

[ QUOTE ]
However as other more encouraging people have said I have to have more faith in myself and put my foot down and say that as a professional i will not ride a horse that has the slightest possibility that it is in discomfort.

[/ QUOTE ]
That's the spirit!

Purporting means - 'claims to be'.

You're on a steep learning curve. But follow your instincts and you'll win out in the end.

 

[kayleigh_and_rocky]

Thanks - i've just gota get more courage about putting my foot down with people - after all i'm sure this isn't gonna be the first awkward owner i'll have to work with!

 

[AmyMay]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks - i've just gota get more courage about putting my foot down with people - after all i'm sure this isn't gonna be the first awkward owner i'll have to work with!

[/ QUOTE ]
But it doesn't have to be about putting your foot down or confrontations remember.

As a professional employed to do a job, if you suspect there is a problem that needs another professionals input you raise it, discuss it, and make an informed decision.

In your shoes I would simply be saying 'I've really enjoyed working with you and the horse, but don't feel I can progress him any further at this time. Once some of the issues of concern have been addressed, I would be delighted to resume his training'.

There's no argument - just a statement.

 

[steffielu]

Hi there..
It sounds to me as if this horse has had these issues long before you got involved with it (probably why it was broken late, and turned away!)
Its attitude may be down to temperament, possibly pain etc, but more likely to do with its inconsistant training. You're teaching it thngs now that usually a 3-4yo would be learning, and its harder as he is stronger and wiser than a real baby!
I think as obviously you are getting somewhere with it, and probably don't want to just give up on it (i wouldn't want to, in your situation) you must approach the owners about checking the saddle and teeth. You say that you have checked its back yourself? Try to be really assertive, and say it needs doing immediately, or else you wont be willing/happy to continue training!

So training.. He needs to learn to go forwards off the leg when you ask. If he enjoys the jumping/polework, keep this up as it will keep him thinking forwards, while incorporating lots and lots of transitions. And remember to reward him when he does it right!
Do tons of hacking, with a companion if he is better and again incorporate a bit of schooling as you go along.
Have you tried long reining? At least then if he does stop and buck you'll be in a better position to chase him forward. Also, this may show up any problems with the fit of the saddle..
May also be a good idea to take along another profesional next time you ride him to get their opinions of his problems.
Its hard to give advice when you cant actually see whats going on, but i hope this helps.

 

[kayleigh_and_rocky]

Yeh you're right its about saying it tactfully and informatively. I was gonna start with "you have employed my services and part of what you pay me for is my professional opinion...." then proceed to say I think the horse needs to get his teeth and saddle checked and until that has been done i cannot work with him

 

[AmyMay]

Perfect.

Good luck, and let us know how you get on.

 

[kayleigh_and_rocky]

Thanks

Will be seeing said horse tonight so fingers crossed and will let you know how it goes down! x

 

[jenbleep]

question: is it really safe to long rein a horse which is known for bucking? isnt that just a recipe for disaster?

just asking not aimed at anyone in particular, just replying to a post someone mentioned doing this xxx

 

[Rueysmum]

TBH if the owners are not going to play ball, then where is the point of you trying to school the horse?

You are young and have your whole life ahead of you. Why risk your neck on somebody's difficult horse if they can't even do you the courtesy of listening to your advice?

There are plenty of other horses out there you could be schooling and plenty of owners who are not complete imbeciles

 

[jenbleep]

[ QUOTE ]
TBH if the owners are not going to play ball, then where is the point of you trying to school the horse?

You are young and have your whole life ahead of you. Why risk your neck on somebody's difficult horse if they can't even do you the courtesy of listening to your advice?

There are plenty of other horses out there you could be schooling and plenty of owners who are not complete imbeciles

[/ QUOTE ]

oh yes agree, is it really worth it? i know its a horse that needs help yada yada yada but if you're doing this as a career whos going to give you money when youre lying in a hospital bed!

*dont mean to be nasty!!! but....*

 

[magic104]

Why do humans insist that an animal is being difficult, especially if it behaves one minute & plays up the next? I will never understand that way of thinking. There could be any number of reasons why this horse is the way he is & until they are ruled out it really is unjustified to state "He is being difficult". If these people dont want to invest money in trying to eliminate possible causes then they should sell him to someone who will. I am so sorry but over the years I have come across this attitude so many times & at the end of the day the poor horse/pony was trying to tell us dumb humans that they were in pain/uncomfortable. Sometimes I get up & I am in real pain with my back, other times nothing. I can explaine why I feel a bit off one day & not the next, animals dont have the advantage of speech. I am not talking about tree hugging, I am suggesting people spend a bit more time observing their animals. I can tell straight away if one of mine are not moving as it should. I know what is normal for them & what is not. Humans also seem to forget horses are a herd animal, to survive they have to work together, so most of them are going to want to work with you not against you. Though for some reason too many people believe otherwise & just think their horses want to be difficult. Teeth should be done at least once a year though 6mths is the ideal. Horses should have an mot yearly, well for those that care about the well being of their animals. There has been a recent case where the pony could not walk off once mounted, sometimes he would rodeo. He had his teeth checked, tack, back, you name it & then it turned out to be a problem in his shoulder. This pony was written off as being dangerous. Only his owner had faith that there was something not quiet right, for one reason he was so easy to deal with on the ground. To date I have not met a horse that was difficult because he was born that way. Yes you will have horses with temperment issues, but they can be managed either way depending on their handling. The longer you push a horse in pain the longer he will take to recover because he will take time to get over anticipating the pain/discomfort. We cant tell them, it is ok you are fixed.

 

[mrsdoyal]

Magic: you took the words right out of my mouth.

There's no such thing as problem horses, but there are plenty of problem owners....