ok really stupid question r.e shoes vs barefoot

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Brambridge04

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Typical chat in pub and mentioned to horsey friend mare getting full set on. Currently barefoot. Non horsey OH said he'd googled it out of interest and as her feet cant contract will her legs ache??? Got me thinking.....
 
I have no idea what you mean by "her feet can't contract". Shoes are nailed to dead protein. Dead protein is not noted for changing shape by itself. The part of the foot that is working and contracting is the frog and you are not going to have shoes nailed to that.

I currently only have one shod horse out of my six.
 
re contract and expand. Shoes are not nailed on near the heels. This allows for expansion and contraction. The barefoot brigade evangalisise about barefeet expanding ,but shod hooves do too.
 
Well something causes this Jemima !

shoe.jpg


(this horse has one shoe on - can you guess which leg ?? )
 
I thought so but it got me thinking so i googled n youtube and thoroughly confused myself.

Originally considered fronts but full set going on in couple of days x
 
Hooves should expand on impact.. metal shoes will prevent this to a greater degree. The hoof should touch down slightly heel first.. the open end of effectively a c spring.

Hooves are far more complex than simply dead protein
 
Shoes are supposed to allow the digital cushion to expand and contract as the foot hits the ground due to (as pointed out about) the placement of the nails not preventing this. That is the theory anyway, but something causes those contracted heels that slowly start to spread and repair themselves when out of shoes? I appreciate that the hoof still 'ought' to be able to contract just the same in shoes as out (and obv then the blood flow should not be compromised) as the moving area of the hoof isn't blocked by the placement of the nails, but I can't say that my experience of what I have seen in my own mares in and out of shoes matches with this.
 
Horsesforever1 said:
re contract and expand. Shoes are not nailed on near the heels. This allows for expansion and contraction. The barefoot brigade evangalisise about barefeet expanding ,but shod hooves do too.
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However many shod hooves have contracted heels.. Heels typically decontract when un shod and correctly trimmed.
 
Zuzan said:
However many shod hooves have contracted heels.. Heels typically decontract when un shod and correctly trimmed.
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which is exactly what I am seeing after taking my horses back shoes off, even after a short space of time (3 weeks).
 
AndySpooner said:
Why is it non horsey people always 'get' things like barefoot, as it makes so much sense, whilst horsey people just don't get it.
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Because you can tell non horsey people any horsey bollox you like and as they won't know any different, they'll believe you? :rolleyes:

I'm not against some horses working unshod btw.
 
I've never been able to understand why people put shoes on horses who don't actually need them - mine both hack, hunt & compete with bare feet... Mostly because a good trim is about a third of the price of a set of shoes...
 
If a horse can cope with its work load without shoes then thats great. If it cant it needs shoes.Simples! I have had horses that I have had shod and horses that I havent and sometimes the shod horses have been shoeless as their work load decreased or they just went on grass. What I cant stand is the barefoot brigade who have a holier than thou attitude.
 
Our horses are now in harder work than when they were shod, and tbh they could take a hell of alot more as my arse is wearing faster than their horn does!!

I think some barefoot people come across abit evangelical - it is often because a much loved horse has been looking at pts as its next option due to long term lameness, then a wonderous and magical thing like barefoot comes along. A year down the line the death row horse is competing and hacking like never before. That sort of thing can make a person a bit thrilled with a different way of working and approaching a lameness problem!!
 
AndySpooner said:
Why is it non horsey people always 'get' things like barefoot, as it makes so much sense, whilst horsey people just don't get it.
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You know that is so true!!
Although I don't mind whether a horse is shod or not as long as it suits the horse. I just don't know alot about feet or understand it! :D

I'm off to ring my farrier.. :D
 
Horses with shoes, every step is hard surface even in thick mud, imagine going everyway in flats with no flexibility, how your legs would ache!
 
She is a 5 year old forester, been barefoot all her life BUT now her road work, and hacking is increasing (some gravelly tracks leading to gallops) she is so footy and slow i think it is best.

i also had a flat footed Welsh c who needed shoes.
 
I would go barefoot if it was possible, but I also wouldnt worry too much about shoes aslong as they are shod correctly. Bad shoeing and bad trimming are just as awful as each other.

Mine has shoes front, because his feet break too easilly, and barefoot behind because those are better.
His feet are generally good and he has been totally barefoot, but I thought it the best for him to have fronts on. x
 
Brambridge04 said:
She is a 5 year old forester, been barefoot all her life BUT now her road work, and hacking is increasing (some gravelly tracks leading to gallops) she is so footy and slow i think it is best.

i also had a flat footed Welsh c who needed shoes.
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Your flat footed Welsh cob and your currently footie New Forest almost certainly need a low sugar, and particularly a low grass diet, and not shoes. They probably only need shoes if you cannot give them the low sugar, low grass lifestyle, and if you choose a different lifestyle for them, then that is your prerogative to do so. But is does not mean that your horses cannot cope barefoot , it simply means that they cannot cope with the lifestyle that you choose/have to give them without shoes.

You also need to beware. You have a footie horse, which is the very first sign of laminitis. If you shoe her and remove the footiness, as shoes will do very well in the early stages, you may miss signs of her having problems coping with the grass and end up with a full blown laminitic "suddenly" one day.

In addition, laminitis is a gut issue, not a foot issue. The foot is a symptom, the cause is bugs in the gut getting into the bloodstream. Many of us with barefoot horses notice our horses becoming itchy, grumpy or lazy before they go footie. So you can mask the foot symptoms but you will still have an unhealthy horse who is itchy, grumpy or lazy.

Over to you, anti-barefoot-brigade brigade :)
 
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She is grass kept with minimal feed of alfa a and fibre nuts and i am very sugar aware. She is fine on grass just gravel and concrete. X
 
Horsesforever1 said:
If a horse can cope with its work load without shoes then thats great. If it cant it needs shoes.Simples! I have had horses that I have had shod and horses that I havent and sometimes the shod horses have been shoeless as their work load decreased or they just went on grass. What I cant stand is the barefoot brigade who have a holier than thou attitude.
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^^^^ This!

I have 3 horses.....all were shod at one point- now non are shod. They didn't need shoes- I hack, school, jump and show without shoes. However- if one of them needed shoes...front/ full set- then thats what I would do.

And its 1/3 of the price too;)

PS.....my horses are unshod- not barefoot:D:p:D
 
Brambridge she is footie almost certainly because she is eating too much grass. Try a test - take her off grass completely for a week and see if she is still footie on concrete then. All my horses would be footie on concrete if I did not keep them in during daylight hours when the grass sugars are highest. One of them is very sensitive and I am also having to muzzle him overnight.

I'm sorry, but if you wanted to keep your horse unshod, you are not "sugar aware" enough. If you cannot or will not restrict her grass access then you will need shoes.
 
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poppymoo said:
PS.....my horses are unshod- not barefoot:D:p:D
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My horses are barefoot. Any old horse can be ushod, only a barefoot horse can do what any shod horse can do, but without shoes on :)

"put some shoes on it, I ain't ridin' no barefoot horse!" was in the original True Grit over 40 years ago. It's not a new faddish expression like people think it is. And the reason she wanted shoes on it was because she was about to ride it non-stop for days at a time when it had never worked in its life before, so its feet would not have stood the work. Properly conditioned, she'd never have needed shoes on a mustang.
 
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cptrayes said:
Your flat footed Welsh cob and your currently footie New Forest almost certainly need a low sugar, and particularly a low grass diet, and not shoes. They probably only need shoes if you cannot give them the low sugar, low grass lifestyle, and if you choose a different lifestyle for them, then that is your prerogative to do so. But is does not mean that your horses cannot cope barefoot , it simply means that they cannot cope with the lifestyle that you choose/have to give them without shoes.

You also need to beware. You have a footie horse, which is the very first sign of laminitis. If you shoe her and remove the footiness, as shoes will do very well in the early stages, you may miss signs of her having problems coping with the grass and end up with a full blown laminitic "suddenly" one day.

In addition, laminitis is a gut issue, not a foot issue. The foot is a symptom, the cause is bugs in the gut getting into the bloodstream. Many of us with barefoot horses notice our horses becoming itchy, grumpy or lazy before they go footie. So you can mask the foot symptoms but you will still have an unhealthy horse who is itchy, grumpy or lazy.

Over to you, anti-barefoot-brigade brigade :)
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Due to these posts I looked again at my TB's diet, and suddenly realised that there is far more sugar in there than she needs, which possibly explains the minor footyness and lazyness that I am seeing since pulling her hinds 4 weeks ago. Unfortunatly econmomics dictated diet for these last weeks, but will be weaning her off mollichaff and mollased sugarbeet this weekend so will happily report back.

I will say until she got used to her "new feet" and they hardened up, I was convinced I had done the worst thing possible to her, dispite the fact that economics dictated no other choice. Now seeing the side effect of healthier backs, I am wondering if we can cope with going totally barefoot??
 
Horsesforever1 said:
If a horse can cope with its work load without shoes then thats great. If it cant it needs shoes.Simples! I have had horses that I have had shod and horses that I havent and sometimes the shod horses have been shoeless as their work load decreased or they just went on grass. What I cant stand is the barefoot brigade who have a holier than thou attitude.
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Agreed!
 
I am unable to take her off the grass. I do not have stable access and school is used by others so cant use it for a week to try it :(
 
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