ok really stupid question r.e shoes vs barefoot

ThePony said:
Our horses are now in harder work than when they were shod, and tbh they could take a hell of alot more as my arse is wearing faster than their horn does!!

I think some barefoot people come across abit evangelical - it is often because a much loved horse has been looking at pts as its next option due to long term lameness, then a wonderous and magical thing like barefoot comes along. A year down the line the death row horse is competing and hacking like never before. That sort of thing can make a person a bit thrilled with a different way of working and approaching a lameness problem!!
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LOL love your first paragraph. Also agree with the rest. ;)

Perhaps the 'old way' of removing shoes for the winter or summer depending is a good compromise? Endurance horses seem to do especially well barefoot, exercise is clearly crucial.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horsesforever1
If a horse can cope with its work load without shoes then thats great. If it cant it needs shoes.Simples! I have had horses that I have had shod and horses that I havent and sometimes the shod horses have been shoeless as their work load decreased or they just went on grass. What I cant stand is the barefoot brigade who have a holier than thou attitude.


Agreed! "
unQuote


But it isn't simples. It can be very difficult to work out why your horse can't work without shoes. If you don't want to do that, fine, but your disrespect for people who have put a huge amount of research into getting their horses able to work without shoes is uncalled for.

In my own case, I could simply have shod my horses. THAT is simples. Instead, I did some research and I found out that my land is heavy in manganese and iron. More research told me that both block the absorption of copper. One more step and I now know that copper is implicated in the regulation of sugar and the regulation of sugar is implicated in foot sensitivity. I now supplement copper and my horses are rock crunching with lovely concave feet all year round when they used to go flat as pancakes every summer.

Now, since the sugar regulation affects the health of the whole horse, it is undeniable that my horses are now healthier than they would be if I had shod them and failed to find out why they were having any trouble.

Just WHAT in this effort by barefooters to do find out how to make their horses high-peformance without shoes is so much to be derided as a fad, can you tell me?

The fact remains that most horses could work shoeless to a high level. It is the owner who either cannot (no criticism there) or will not (your choice, do what you think is right) provide their horse with the perfectly tuned environment for it to do so.
 
ps I reckon it will cost you an additional £10 or so a week to shoe your pony. Factor that into your costs of whether you could afford to keep her somewhere where she can go out overnight and be in during the day.
 
I have a 7 year old ex-racer, end of 2009 he did this:
DSC00990.jpg

Horrible injury, farrier looked at it and said that I wouldn’t get shoes on in six months as the whole rear quarter of the hoof would like likely to come off and scar.

So start of 2010 I took his shoes off as it was the middle of winter and I thought I’d pre-empt not being able to shoe in summer.

Anyway, the broken chunk had grown out far earlier than farrier predicted (feet were growing quicker without shoes) and amazingly enough the hoof didn’t scar either, for a while there was a slight bulge in the scared area but now he has two normal feet.

...and for a horse that was once called ‘the worst moving horse i’ve ever seen, make sure you always ride him with brushing boots’ he’s suddenly developed some rather nice natural paces :D shoes currently aren’t going back on either!

(NB he injured himself whilst we were trying to teach him leg yield and totf, that's how uncordinated he used to be with his feet!!)
 
Dizzle said:
I have a 7 year old ex-racer, end of 2009 he did this:
DSC00990.jpg

Horrible injury, farrier looked at it and said that I wouldn’t get shoes on in six months as the whole rear quarter of the hoof would like likely to come off and scar.

So start of 2010 I took his shoes off as it was the middle of winter and I thought I’d pre-empt not being able to shoe in summer.

Anyway, the broken chunk had grown out far earlier than farrier predicted (feet were growing quicker without shoes) and amazingly enough the hoof didn’t scar either, for a while there was a slight bulge in the scared area but now he has two normal feet.

...and for a horse that was once called ‘the worst moving horse i’ve ever seen, make sure you always ride him with brushing boots’ he’s suddenly developed some rather nice natural paces :D shoes currently aren’t going back on either!

(NB he injured himself whilst we were trying to teach him leg yield and totf, that's how uncordinated he used to be with his feet!!)
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Yes have seen very similar on a French Trotter.. Shoes are responsible for some horrific injuries and I guess some cases where people will PTS
 
I'd be interested in people's opinions on this situation.

I have an elderly retired TB who has been unshod/barefoot for many years because once she retired from racing she was a broodmare. I use her as a companion, so all she needs to do is pootle about being lovely. :D

She gets very stressed in the yard and cannot cope with being stabled. I have got her to the point where I can bring her to the yard for the farrier or a quick groom/check but she doesn't like it.

When I lived in Hertfordshire (flat paddocks), she coped fine although she would have small chips around the edges of her hooves if we went without rain and the ground was very hard.

Now she is on the Welsh hills and last summer (very dry) she became footsore on all four feet, with much bigger chips than ever before. I got the farrier to put some shoes on her and she was looking alot better the same day. Once the ground softened in the autumn, I had her shoes taken off again and she coped without any trouble.

This spring I had her shod again when the ground started to get very hard and she'll go back to barefoot/unshod again in the autumn. I think that this works for this particular horse. Her temperament and job dictate that she needs to be turned out all the time.

Horsesonthehilltwo.jpg

^ She's the bay. :) This shows the contour of the land.

DSCN4523.jpg

^ The old flat paddocks.

One point of interest, the old flat paddocks were much richer than the new hilly ones.
 
To quote Zuzan 'horsey people are taught by 'experts',

The ex, as in past it, and a spurt is a drip under pressure, more like.

I reckon lots of folk are told things by so called experts and it has the effect of closing the mind, for ever in some cases.
 
I tried keeping her barefoot, but she is not coping well with the roads and woodland hacking, she is very slow and tentative, where as very forward going on grass.

I considered fronts but feel a full set would suit her best.
 
Faracat I would check the mineral content of the Welsh land. I can't see any reason why she would be footie on a Welsh hillside if she wasn't on a plains paddock. So maybe there is low copper, high manganese, high iron, and I have also heard that some plants are high in natural steroids that can start footiness too. Chips in the summer may well be due to poor hoof laid down over winter, and being out 24/7 any imbalance in your grazing is going to have a big effect. It's not the slope of the paddock, that's for sure. Mine's just as bad :)!

Your routine of shoes on/off sounds like a good compromise for a paddock ornament to me, too. She does "pootling about being lovely" rather well, doesn't she???
 
AndySpooner said:
I reckon lots of folk are told things by so called experts and it has the effect of closing the mind, for ever in some cases.
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AndySpooner said:
#

This is very true ^


Im the only barefooter on my yard, nobody has ever questioned me about the lack of horseshoes on my mares (one of which is worked pretty hard for an oldie 5 days a week for 4-6 miles a time and grows horn like nothing else!!).

I would never preach to people about going BF, and that seems to be part of the fustration against the barefoot brigade. BF to me, is something that needs to be discovered. There is nothing holy about it at all, its just owning horses that when kept correctly and methodically and exercised well, can go without shoes.

Now about the aching limbs question, well people with abnormally high arched (supinated)feet will have more concusion during the gait cycle, so are more prone to strains and shin splints than a foot that rolls in (pronates) correctly which will absorb and distribute the force of weight during the gait cycle (think barefoot hoof). Just thinking outside the box a bit.
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I think that with the amount of hoof boots on the market, shoes really are'nt as nessesary as believed. New boots are always being designed, and many are suitable for everyday riding, roadwork, and competition. Many even come with stud holes!

For me, if my barefoot horse wasnt up to the amount of work i required of him, it would be easy enough to boot up, instead of nailing something to his feet. Boots also have the ability of absorbing shock, wereas shoes increase concussion, especially on roads.

So in reality, its not nessesary to shoe our horse's, (except in some rare instances where shoes are a life or death siuation), because there is a boot to cater for the majority of our needs. Ideally, our horses would live in their ideal invironment, have the ideal diet, and have brilliant feet. Unfortunately this isnt really a reality, and we sometimes have to provide our horses with something that makes there everyday working life easier. Some people still rely on shoes, some rely on boots. Its really a personal choice.
 
I know theres boots, personally im not keen on them, i know its a bit controverisal but i really think being fully shod will work for her.
 
I think you mean it will work for you :) It's not controversial in the slightest. Most people do it and most horses have no obvious problem with it.

I would repeat my advice, though, particularly as she is out 24/7 to watch for laminitis like a hawk, because with shoes on you won't see the warning signs until it's too late.
 
Put shoes on.

Barefoot is not the be all and end all, and only works for a proportion of horses. Don't make your horse suffer to appease the evangelical.

And @ jennyharvey - studs in boots? Are you serious? Do you even have a clue about the stability needed to have people stud horses in the first place?
 
Changes said:
Put shoes on.

Barefoot is not the be all and end all, and only works for a proportion of horses. Don't make your horse suffer to appease the evangelical.

And @ jennyharvey - studs in boots? Are you serious? Do you even have a clue about the stability needed to have people stud horses in the first place?
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Nobody on this forum has, to my memory, suggested that anyone's horse should "suffer" to go barefoot. So there is no question of appeasing anyone, evangelical or not. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you did not mean that to be as offensive as it sounded.

And yes, there are boots with studs that can be fitted to stop the boot slipping on grass. What is your problem with that? I for one would prefer the boot to give a little than I would to transmit all that pressure directly through to my horse's joints, which is what happens when you stud shoes.

No-one is suggesting that you throw a horse at full speed around a BE cross country course in them. It sounds to me like you need to calm down a little !
 
I think it suits to do what you have always done, without thinking about it. There are some brilliant websites and information on the web about barefoot, of course I am not suggesting you should believe everything you read on the internet without question, but it is a good starting point.

Have a look at the mustang natural trim, these horses travel huge distances over rough ground, self trim and have brilliant feet.

Even barefoot horses can have problems if they are not trimmed correctly, so yes you can have issues with a barefoot horse, there is more to it than just taking the shoes off.
 
Pod77 said:
I would never preach to people about going BF, and that seems to be part of the fustration against the barefoot brigade. BF to me, is something that needs to be discovered.
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This is imo so very, very true. Sadly though the discovery all too often comes when the end of the road is reached or as a last resort. I am hoping this will change over time as we all learn more and people see the benefits for many horses general health.
 
cptrayes said:
Nobody on this forum has, to my memory, suggested that anyone's horse should "suffer" to go barefoot. So there is no question of appeasing anyone, evangelical or not. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you did not mean that to be as offensive as it sounded.
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So the 'transition' to barefoot when the horse is frequently sore is not suffering?
You have posted about restricted turnout times, making your horses wear muzzles etc - all so that you can 'go barefoot'. Not very natural for the horse - more about you following your ideals.

cptrayes said:
And yes, there are boots with studs that can be fitted to stop the boot slipping on grass. What is your problem with that? I for one would prefer the boot to give a little than I would to transmit all that pressure directly through to my horse's joints, which is what happens when you stud shoes.
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Because a sliding boot will damage the soft tissue as the horse moves.

cptrayes said:
No-one is suggesting that you throw a horse at full speed around a BE cross country course in them. It sounds to me like you need to calm down a little !
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So you would shoe and stud correctly for XC then?
 
Wether a horse is shod or barefoot does not matter to me in the slightest, mine however are shod & it suits them. The issue I have is when people decide to go barefoot & phone up a 'barefoot trimmer'. There are few of these who have any recognised training, they have a course over a few days, read a book & then go out hacking at horses feet. Some will go on holiday to America & while away do a quick course & come back 'Qualified'

If you wish to go barefoot then call a registered farrier. He will take the shoes off professionally & will professionally trim the horses feet so they are balanced & level. A farrier will also be able to tell you very often if your horse has a problem. You can't cram years of training into a few days of a course & expect to really know what you are doing.
 
Toby_Zaphod said:
Wether a horse is shod or barefoot does not matter to me in the slightest, mine however are shod & it suits them. The issue I have is when people decide to go barefoot & phone up a 'barefoot trimmer'. There are few of these who have any recognised training, they have a course over a few days, read a book & then go out hacking at horses feet. Some will go on holiday to America & while away do a quick course & come back 'Qualified'

If you wish to go barefoot then call a registered farrier. He will take the shoes off professionally & will professionally trim the horses feet so they are balanced & level. A farrier will also be able to tell you very often if your horse has a problem. You can't cram years of training into a few days of a course & expect to really know what you are doing.
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Can you please tell me all about this few-day training course you know so much about? I was thinking about becoming a two-day trimmer and you seem to know most about it.... very interested to hear your thoughts as I don't like the idea of training for years on end just to learn about a hoof. I imagine it can be like learning to build a spaceship and sending it off into space and I'm not brainy enough to do that.

I really hope you can help.

Thanks,

th!
 
melandjazz said:
My horse used to be shod but us now barefoot. Its quite a long process as can take anything from a month to a year for a horse to adjust. when they start to get the feeling back in their feet this is when they get 'footie'. It just takes time for there feet to harden up from having shoes on :)

the impact on a horses leg with shoes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fql-xsofeg0

and without:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6yLEdr2EOM&feature=related
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Fasinating, as was the other video posted further up.

I was having a major wobble last night, about have I done the right thing, (and I have only done the hinds so far) and these yet again re-affirmed it all.

I just wish there was a less "painful" way of doing the transition (and that is for the owner and not the horse!)

I can understand the OP's train of thought, but would like to thank her for posting this for those that are having less public wobbles.

Since diet is so important, how does one go around getting the paddock tested??
 
Paddock testing is done by getting a mineral analysis done on a sample of your grass, maybe soil as well, Im not really clued up in this area yet, but it's something that I am going to look into soon.

Try googling' mineral analysis for horse paddocks', or there are people on this board who have mentioned in their posts that they get their paddocks tested.....i think maybe Oberon on here does?.

Good luck with your horse.
 
Angua2 said:
I just wish there was a less "painful" way of doing the transition (and that is for the owner and not the horse!)
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How about imagining that if the world ended tomorrow and there was no-one to nail a metal band on to a horses foot... which horses would survive longest?
 
Changes said:
So the 'transition' to barefoot when the horse is frequently sore is not suffering?
You have posted about restricted turnout times, making your horses wear muzzles etc - all so that you can 'go barefoot'. Not very natural for the horse - more about you following your ideals.



Because a sliding boot will damage the soft tissue as the horse moves.



So you would shoe and stud correctly for XC then?
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Are you saying that nailing shoes on and then turning out in squares is more natural? Or is that following ideals?

The IDEAL would be for them to run wild. Barefoot and muzzles is a better compromise in horse-human partnership than shoes and stable 24/7.

oh and lol about sliding boot... do you wear shoes? You do? Then does all your soft tissue fall off too?
 
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tallyho! said:
Are you saying that nailing shoes on and then turning out in squares is more natural? Or is that following ideals?

The IDEAL would be for them to run wild. Barefoot and muzzles is a better compromise in horse-human partnership than shoes and stable 24/7.

oh and lol about sliding boot... do you wear shoes? You do? Then does all your soft tissue fall off too?
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Ypou can't have it both ways - ie claiming it's not natural for a horse to wear shoes, and yet stabling them and restricting them (far more than my shod horses are) from grazing through the daytime? My shod horses, btw, are out 24/7, except in the worst of weather, and when they choose to let themselves stand inside in the shade of the barn.

The ideal is that the horse is as happy and comfortable as we can make him because we have domesticated him.
It's a spurious and ridiculous comment to say that the ideal is the horse running wild when we both know that doesn't and couldn't happen in the current world.
ETA, except in the case of the New Forest ponies, Welshies and the Dartmoors,and that's not going well, is it?

Did I say the sliding boot caused soft tissue to fall off? If you want to question my post, at least read what I've written.

Yes, I wear shoes, but then I'm human. And if your argument is failing to the extent that you have to compare a biped with a quadruped then you are seriously struggling..........
 
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