Old horse 23 do I buy her as a first pony?

[Clodagh]

I bought a 20 year old pony with EMS for my son. She was £2000. The vet said ‘just don’t ’. But she was perfect, forward going yet super safe, an absolute perfect pony.
But after 2 years, when he had pretty well outgrown her, she couldn’t be managed any more. She couldn’t eat grass at all without getting laminitis. I had her at home so could adapt as needed but once we got to that I had her pts.
So I’d buy her if you can afford to lost the money and if you are strong enough to PTS when needed. I’m disgusted they are selling her though, poor thing.

 

[Glitter's fun]

Looking for a first pony is a hard lesson in human behaviour. There are people who will hear that you are inexperienced and rush to offload their rubbish onto you. This will not be the last.
Please walk away and get some help from a trustworthy person who is experienced and knows your riding ability.

 

[Red-1]

I bought one who had EMS, was borderline cushings, was just finishing box rest for lami, is asthmatic, not good in traffic and didn't load. Oh, and his back legs had stiffened up with the box rest. Not to mention he was registered as a rig on his passport (I mean, I didn't mention it until I had a blood test to confirm that it was wrong LOL).

I started a thread, it is on here. (1) I just bought my first cob! Introduction + feed advice + photos! | Horse and Hound Forum

BUT...

1. I was keeping him at home so was in charge of every aspect of his care.

2. The idea was as a short term hack while I got over a traumatic time, followed by retirement for him as a companion.

3. I could afford the vets bills.

4. I could afford to write off the purchase price.

5. I was experienced at horse keeping.

6. I am bl**dy minded and liked the horse.

7. I would be able mentally/emotionally to PTS when the time is right, even if that had been shortly after purchase.

He is still here, large as life, 2 1/2 years later. Hacks out, can do a bit of dressage, pops a fence, is a nice horse for friends to hack out on. He also visits the local OAP home on occasion for a pat visit. He was younger than yours, but is a horse so I think comparable. He has cost as much as a more expensive horse, with all the adaptations we have done! He has been amazingly value for money though, for the pleasure he gives.

I do know that one day his time will come, and it is likely sooner than later, though.

In your position, I would consider a loan, so he can be returned if he starts to flag. But even then, only if you would be hard enough to actually return, which is much harder with a first horse!

 

[luckyoldme]

Actually op you have done a brilliant thing here, there's a wealth of knowledge and experience to go at.
A lot of people (myself included) came on here asking these questions after buying their horse.
Well done you and good luck finding your first pony. ❤

 

[paddy555]

Hi not that I know of, I can ask, I had read about cushings and being common in older horses
Ok thank you for the advice, so once they’ve gone lame it’s very certain it’ll happen again?

yes with amazing regularity.

Sweetitch is a PITA to manage. A sweetitch rug is over £100, you will need a spare for when it gets damaged which is often. The pony will also need a mask.
A vet is needed for a cushings test. Done 6 monthy, that is vet call out and test. Probably around £120 a time.

Cushings meds are over £1 a tablet, that is over £1 a day for life.

cushings, EMS and laminitis may well need keeping off grass all the time. Can you do that?

Laminitis is VERY painful. It happens quickly, often cannot be controlled so you would have to be prepared to PTS very quickly on welfare grounds. Alongside the cost of PTS and disposing of the carcass (a lot of money) is the considerable mental cost.

If the pony has laminitis which is very difficult to avoid there will be no riding for a considerable time but a lot of vet fees, farrier fees and the cost of X rays which need a vet's visit.

Bear in mind that many of the people replying to you have very many years of horse keeping experience and some still struggle and would struggle with the potential problems in this pony. Cushings/Sweet itch/ EMS and laminitis are VERY common problems in older ponies.

ETA there is one other point I missed. Cushings/EMS and laminitis ie your going lame are linked. You need to medicate. The cushings drug is prascend.
One symptom of cushings is lethargy. So a cushings pony may well be quiet to ride. Once it is given prascend (and that is needed) then the pony may well come to life again. That may not be quite as quiet to ride.
I had a cushings haflinger. He was very quiet to ride. He had to have prascend. He became like the Jungle Bunny on speed. There was no way to take those long life duracel batteries out. He became the horse that he was in fact not the quiet ride the cushings had forced him to become.

Would you be happy if that happened and the pony become a lot more active.



If you even consider loaning then make sure they pay the vet's fees unless you have VERY deep pockets. Also make sure you are emotionally stable yourself not to be upset if the pony has to be PTS or cannot be ridden for long periods.

 

[SO1]

The average life span of a horse is 24. For this reason even if in top health for her age I would say no. It is heart breaking loosing a horse and also as a first time horse owner you may have little understanding of the cost and heartache managing any ailments or having to PTS your equine companion.

 

[Starzaan]

I’m afraid I wouldn’t touch her with a barge pole. I think it’s incredibly off of the owners to be selling her, and they’re asking a silly price.

 

[ycbm]

The average life span of a horse is 24. For this reason even if in top health for her age I would say no. It is heart breaking loosing a horse and also as a first time horse owner you may have little understanding of the cost and heartache managing any ailments or having to PTS your equine companion.

I'm not sure where you got that from SO1. I think it's possible that the average lifespan of a horse who dies or is PTS for age related issues is 24, but I'm pretty sure that the average lifespan of a horse who dies or is PTS for any other reason as well as those dying of old age is no more than 15.
.

 

[SO1]

I think I saw it on a petplan advert on Facebook. I would not buy a 23 year as statistically you might not get many years with it if average lifespan is 24. I appreciate some people are lucky and they have horses or ponies still going into their late 20s and 30s.

I'm not sure where you got that from SO1. I think it's possible that the average lifespan of a horse who dies or is PTS for age related issues is 24, but I'm pretty sure that the average lifespan of a horse who dies or is PTS for any other reason as well as those dying of old age is no more than 15.
.

 

[Equi]

Honestly you would be out of pocket and have a broken heart very fast with this one, making your first owning experience a poor one. Ems, laminitis and sweetitch can be a pain to manage for experienced horse owners, you say you are a novice and not that it means you couldn’t manage it but it may prove a little much right now (trying to get used to a new horse and it being spring i.e lami & sweetitch danger time)

There are plenty of younger more healthy horses who are just as safe. If budget is an issue, look for a loan or share. This is not the pony for you.

 

[m1stify]

I wouldn’t do it just for the fact that the owners will get away with passing on their older problem horse to someone else and get paid for it. It’s disgraceful that they are trying to offload the pony which has probably given them many years of pleasure now that is is older and will cost money to manage

 

[ifyousayso]

I'm not sure where you got that from SO1. I think it's possible that the average lifespan of a horse who dies or is PTS for age related issues is 24, but I'm pretty sure that the average lifespan of a horse who dies or is PTS for any other reason as well as those dying of old age is no more than 15.
.

Unfortunately according to science they only count lifespans as dying of old age which is 25-30 years. They don’t count deadly injuries, illnesses, diseases or just behavior problems. There really should with all animals because it’s actually very unrealistic. Also small pony’s like Shetland ponys or just very small pony’s in general who generally live longer are skewing with the lifespan that’s why 25-30 years because they generally live longer it should really go by breed like dogs breeds have different lifespans the same should apply for horse breeds. Obviously the are horse that live well into 30s and 40s but it’s more rare.

 

[Glitter's fun]

Everyone ‘horsey’ I’ve spoken to has said don’t go there but she is so ideal for my riding ability and safe!

I really am sorry you didn't get the answer you wanted. I get that you really want to ride this pony but you can't keep asking different people until you find someone who tells you what you want to hear.
Could you ask for a share agreement where the pony stays in the current ownership & they remain responsible for vet bills but you pay a weekly amount to ride it?

 

[Gloi]

OP, if the owners try any emotional blackmail about the pony make sure you stay strong.

 

[Nari]

Not what I want to hear

No, what you really don't want to hear is the vet saying the only humane thing you can do is pts because despite your best efforts the laminitis is out of control and has done irreversible damage.

Please, from someone who's been there, do yourself a favour and walk away.

 

[I don’t like mondays]

Great advice on here. The recent lameness would make me walk away. I bought my daughter a 20year old (who had no previous ailments) and at the viewings he looked 10 (still does). He’s still full of it now and living life to the full. A hardy pony (who is sound) but older wouldn’t necessarily put me off but not if they’ve had previous health or soundness issues and they’d need to be cheap (and doing the job you want and staying sound doing it). The 2 horses I’ve recently lost were youngsters so it’s always a gamble whatever the age. And speaking as someone who has had lots of bad luck don’t knowingly take on a problem

 

[Ample Prosecco]

These owners should be totally ashamed of themselves. They are off-loading a sweetitch pony before the midges are problematic, and an EMS/Lami pony before the Spring grass comes through. Run a mile. This pony will be a heart-breaking money pit. The owners probably know that, and are trying to cash in now, so they aren't the ones paying for meds, vets, remedial farriery & Boett rugs; aren't the ones struggling daily with the managements issues. And aren't the ones who have make the awful PTS decision. Sooner rather than later, probably. Pony deserves so much better. It is hard to buy with a budget of £1500 but this pony is not worth any money at all. There are better options, even at that price.

 

[Connemara24]

Having just had my 26yr old who had EMS pts because he started getting laminitis again and I didn't want him to suffer. As much as I loved him and would of done anything for him it's so hard and worrying looking after them, and I'd never buy or loan a horse who had EMS or had laminitis before.

 

[Aperchristmas]

I currently have a pony with sweetich and prone to laminitis, and previously owned a horse with suspected EMS (vet & I were certain so we didn't see the need to put him through the test) and one, very bad bout of laminitis. Take it from me - do not buy this pony. Managing these conditions is really hard, you're constantly having to compromise and making the wrong compromise could prove fatal. It's really really hard work to give them a good quality of life and it certainly adds a lot of stress and worry to your own. The chances of you making mistakes with management is also high given that this would be your first pony. I'm so sorry that this pony's owners are being so irresponsible and putting you through this emotional time, but I promise that there will be another pony out there for you.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Having just had my 26yr old who had EMS pts because he started getting laminitis again and I didn't want him to suffer. As much as I loved him and would of done anything for him it's so hard and worrying looking after them, and I'd never buy or loan a horse who had EMS or had laminitis before.

I totally agree with you I've had 2 with laminitis I never want to go through it again it's my worst nightmare.

 

[Red-1]

I totally agree with you I've had 2 with laminitis I never want to go through it again it's my worst nightmare.

Mine is aggressively managed and if he gets lami again, we won't be doing rehab for recovery. There would be no point, I can't do more for him than I am. It is a worry for sure.

It is also hurtful when people say he is too skinny, yet the vets say he could lose some more.

That said, I have never regretted buying him as he was just what I needed at that moment in time.

 

[misst]

My feeling would be that as a first time owner would you recognise low grade lameness?. At that price they are likely hoping you wouldn't bother to vet/do bloods so you may well have viewed a pony with low grade lameness (especially if it is bilateral or in all 4 feet) without actually knowing she had it.
I have had a cushings pony who we'd owned for years and she did eventually get raging laminitis one summer and I'm afraid we just PTS - she was 27 and a lovely field ornament. She had been out on loan for a year or so until she was about 22 then we had her back. It is very difficult to manage in a livery situation and you do get a lot of comments about cruelty regarding no grass/keeping weight down etc from ignorant people.
I suspect if you don't know what you are doing she will likely develop laminitis very quickly and if you are not brave enough to make a quick decision she will suffer. Please don't take her.

 

[SilverLinings]

OP I don't have anything to add as the previous posts cover the many concerns about this horse. Well done for coming on here to ask for advice, sellers don't always tell you the downsides of the horse they are selling and even for those of us who are more experienced a second opinion when horse buying can be invaluable.

I hope that you find another equally suitable horse soon, but without the health problems, they are out there.

It is also hurtful when people say he is too skinny, yet the vets say he could lose some more.

One of mine has suspected EMS and I don't think people realise how much it can grind you down to constantly hear people saying your horse is too thin when actually they are a healthy weight, and it takes a lot of hard work to keep them like that. I think a lot of horse (and dog) owners have lost sight of what a healthy weight actually looks like.

 

[southerncomfort]

I had to have my daughter's 21 year old pony PTS last year.

Despite being on medication for EMS and cushings, she kept having repeated attacks of laminitis and the vet said she could never be turned out in a field again. I couldn't bear to see her in pain any more, and missing her friends when they were out in the field.

It was a terrible life for her and it was a devastating decision to have to make.

Don't buy this kind of heartache.

A healthy horse in its mid to late teens is ideal for a first horse, but not an elderly pony with medical problems.

 

[Red-1]

One of mine has suspected EMS and I don't think people realise how much it can grind you down to constantly hear people saying your horse is too thin when actually they are a healthy weight, and it takes a lot of hard work to keep them like that. I think a lot of horse (and dog) owners have lost sight of what a healthy weight actually looks like.

It grinds me down because even I think he is a bit skinny! He would look twice as magnificent if he had a bit of weight because it goes first on his crest and he looks wonderful. It is, however, cr@p for his body so I don't do it.

Vet insists that the back 3 ribs must stay clearly visible. Vet insists on no crest being more healthy. With Rigs, that also means his back is skinny as that loses before the ribs/crest. But such is life and he is healthy and happy in himself, thrives on some jolly hacking and is much loved.

It would be twice as hard on a cliquey livery yard though!

 

[SilverLinings]

It grinds me down because even I think he is a bit skinny! He would look twice as magnificent if he had a bit of weight because it goes first on his crest and he looks wonderful. It is, however, cr@p for his body so I don't do it.

Vet insists that the back 3 ribs must stay clearly visible. Vet insists on no crest being more healthy. With Rigs, that also means his back is skinny as that loses before the ribs/crest. But such is life and he is healthy and happy in himself, thrives on some jolly hacking and is much loved.

It would be twice as hard on a cliquey livery yard though!

I think a lot of people believe that if any bone structure is visible then the pony/horse must be seriously underweight. Rigsby and mine (a Connemara) look like the photos of any pony in books and articles from 1960 and before, when horses tended to be lean to good, whereas now the majority seem to be anywhere from a little overweight to obese. Seeing (lightly) ribs or the point of hip does not in isolation mean a horse is emaciated.

 

[Red-1]

I think a lot of people believe that if any bone structure is visible then the pony/horse must be seriously underweight. Rigsby and mine (a Connemara) look like the photos of any pony in books and articles from 1960 and before, when horses tended to be lean to good, whereas now the majority seem to be anywhere from a little overweight to obese. Seeing (lightly) ribs or the point of hip does not in isolation mean a horse is emaciated.

This is Rigs' most recent photo, taken this month. The vet was here for his teeth/ 6 monthly check up, and said he was a little overweight. Yet, some people would castigate me for him being too slim.



His ribs are easily felt but not quite visible as he has a proper cob winter coat on!!!

I do allow a little extra weight when he isn't on grass in winter but he has to skinny up in summer so he can have time (muzzled) at grass.

 

[SilverLinings]

That is not a thin/underweight pony, he looks far better than about 90% of the ponies I see though! It is even harder to monitor their weight with a full coat though, I admire you for not letting him slide under the fluff, mine is clipped as in work so a bit easier to see changes.

Worryingly I think a lot of people think Thelwell's drawings of ponies were true to life...

 

[Peglo]

I really commend you OP for looking for an older horse that suits your ridden needs and not wanting to over horse yourself but this horse is not for a novice. Ridden wise maybe but management/care wise this horse is completely unsuitable and I’m so annoyed with the horses owners for not only minimising how difficult the horses care will be but also happy to offload the horse to someone as a first horse and trying to charge you £1500 is ridiculous.

Sorry it’s not what you want to hear but the struggle and heartbreak this horse could give you may put you off horses altogether. The owners should be taking responsibility for their elderly horse with health issues, not selling the horse where his future and management is so uncertain.

 

[splashgirl45]

My mare was really sparky and spooky to ride and one summer she was easier to ride and as I had moved yards and she had more grazing time I thought that was why , however she went quieter and I knew something was wrong,, got her tested and she had cushings, once the meds kicked in I had my loony horse back so although this pony is very quiet and you feel safe this could be due to cushings or she is sore on all of her feet. I feel really sorry for the pony and angry that the owners are trying to sell such an old girl who has health problems. It would probably be kinder to the pony to PTS now