Old horses - are people getting unrealistic?

cptrayes

cptrayes

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I am reading an increasing number of posts on all sorts of different subjects (verterinary, sale, rehoming) where people are talking about horses over 20 years old as if they are still in the peak of life.

For me, any horse over 20 could pop its clogs at any time. To reach 25 still in work I consider to be very lucky. I've just read of a 21 year old going through major colic surgery with intestine removal.

Are vets operating on and otherwise keeping alive horses that should be put to sleep? Are horses being kept alive beyond when they should be by owners who can't bear to part with them? Or am I just out of touch with modern horse medicine and the longevity of modern horses?



ps I mean horses, not ponies, ponies have always had the capacity to live a lot longer than horses.
 
I think it is entirely down to a vet and the owner to decide if that individual horse is fit and well enough to go through an op etc.

Also, I do not think that just because a horse reaches old age, it should be pts. If somebody is keeping an elderly horse alive when it is physically suffering because of age effects, then yes fine, but otherwise, I don't think it's very fair of someone to pts just because a horse is old.
 
Hm. I've been thinking the same, but less to do with age and more to do with the sort of treatment that insurance opens up - I do think people sometimes put horses through more than they always should. Not all the time, but sometimes, I think the end result trumps the means - and I'm not convinced it's always the right path.
 
I lost my mare at 35 last year. She was hacked out gently only a few days before she died and was fine. She had major colic surgery (> 30' gut removed) due to pedunculated lipomas when she was 24. Would I do it again, not sure. Tbh she was already in pre surgery room at Liphook before my YO/good friend got hold of me. At the time it was right and I don't regret that decision. She was still out competing and winning showing classes at 29/30. This was her not long before the colic op.

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Oooo I think this may become a bit controversial!
I have a 21yr old TB. She is fit and healthy and I hack her out and have plans to do a couple of pleasure rides this year. As much as it breaks my heart I wouldn't put her through colic surgery as I don't think its fair, she hates the vet and I just couldn't do it to her. I am realistic I know she won't be around forever and I just want to enjoy her while I can. :)
 
No, it depends on the chances a horse has of leading a happy life. I ride a 23 year old 17hh tb x id. Hes fab but can be a little stiff in the morning and takes a little more warming up.

Personally, i wouldnt put a horse 15 years + through surgery - and i would only ever have an op on a horse if they have a reasonable chance of survival/recovery.
 
I think it entirely depends on the horse, you could send a 6 year old horse for colic surgery and it could die and the 25 year old going through the same thing could survive and thrive.

I wouldn't personally put a horse over a certain age through any major illness/veterinary treatment, when it might be kinder just to PTS. It's a tricky one though, I've seen 20 year olds that look in better health than my 8 year old!
 
My first pony was hacking and competing well into his 30's so age is just a number as far as I am concerned.

With regards to colic surgery, I dont think I could put my pony (or myself) through it. He hates stables and confined spaces so the same would go for any significant period of complete box rest too. It would break my heart, but not as much as months of nursing, huge bills and no guarantee of a positive outcome. x
 
Theocat said:
Hm. I've been thinking the same, but less to do with age and more to do with the sort of treatment that insurance opens up - I do think people sometimes put horses through more than they always should. Not all the time, but sometimes, I think the end result trumps the means - and I'm not convinced it's always the right path.
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I agree with this. I work full time and keep my horses at home and I couldn't look after a very sick horse in the way I'd like to, post surgery.
I have done it, every four hours, when one was in recovery from serious illness - but I couldn't choose to put myself or the horse, through that and major surgery means electing to have that commitment. Just doing them twice a day is not enough, for me, anyway. I don't think vets always take into consideration the nursing care required when they suggest surgery to owners.
 
serena2005 said:
Wow! You are unbelievable
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Emilieu said:
Is it maybe a little insensitive to start this thread tonight while the owner of that same 21 year old is on here looking for support? Just a thought.
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Alaadin said:
Totally agree!
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I am sorry that the three of you do not see this as a serious subject of horse welfare that needs to be discussed, but I do.

Serena2005 I did not connect your thread with your post here, but please do not cause yourself any further grief by opening this thread again. I understand why you have have elected for surgery and I wish your horse the very best.
 
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cptrayes said:
I am sorry that the three of you do not see this as a serious subject of horse welfare that needs to be discussed, but I do.
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That's really not nice if you actually started the thread knowing that. I hadn't seen Serena's thread till this was posted. You have received lots of support from the forum when times have not been good for you. Please show a little sensitivity to others. It's Serena's horse and she is doing her best for him. Now she has to also worry about nasty things being said about what she is doing. :(

ETA - now seen your edit but not sure it changes my comments above.
 
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I've just read of a 21 year old going through major colic surgery with intestine removal.


That appears pretty connected to my post!
Let's hope no one starts an insensitive post when your waiting for the phone to ring telling u if your pony is dead or not!
 
I don't know about you but I think when I was younger I certainly wouldn't have looked at a horse 16+ as to me that was old but so was 40+ in human years but I was myself 16-18yrs old at the time and now I'm in my 30's I think 40 (for humans is young) and I wouldn't put an age on a person as acceptable and fit or "over the hill" and now my gelding who I've had since 3 is 20yrs old he is genuinely as fit and healthy as he was 10years ago and is so young in spirit. He feels great to ride, my instructor says she couldn't pick him out of a line up of younger horses. He doesn't look his age, act his age or by anyway incompacitated by his age. Now when I was 16yrs old I would have 100% said he would be retired by now. In saying that I do agree with OP as I'm lucky as I know my boys background and would hate to think of him bring passed around, but disagree that he should be considered over the hill but no I wouldn't be going out of my way to buy a horse in its 20's as it is an inevitable spiral but do I think he's going to pop his clogs any minute...absolutely not he is playing with my youngsters and giving them a run for there money. Would I put him through a major OP probably not but he genuinely does have years left him but I wouldn't be selfish and put him through that as his quality of life would then be in question and would love him to go out on a high....
 
I can't reply to pm as on phone. I think it is an interesting question and would read the discussion with interest for help with making my own difficult decisions in the hopefully distant future but I simply felt that
a) your timing was poor
and
b) it was unfair to reference a case which is unresolved and currently causing a lot of distress to a person on the forum
 
cptrayes said:
I am sorry that the three of you do not see this as a serious subject of horse welfare that needs to be discussed, but I do.

Serena2005 I did not connect your thread with your post here, but please do not cause yourself any further grief by opening this thread again. I understand why you have have elected for surgery and I wish your horse the very best.
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Age is just a number. There is no certain age that should be a cut off for surgery. Some horses are still going round Badminton in their 20s. Do they not deserve surgery if required?
 
20 is a good age for a horse but there are plenty of horses around this age still out hunting/sj/eventing etc, around half the horses out hunting at the last count were in their late teens etc, horses these days can go on as I guess they have a relatively easy life compared with their ancestors. My oldie is 22 and have managed a few shortish days hunting on her, she is a little creaky but loves it, oldies need to be kept going with a little of what they love doing & not being just left out in a field! I have a younger horse so do not have to rely on her for everything I want to do, nor would I want to..she owes me nothing after all these years eta ..would not put her through any colic ops etc etc,sell her or anything at this age though!
 
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In the 70s there were quite a few top flight showjumpers still competing - and winning at 20 plus.

I think that, without taking into account improvements in veterinary medicine, horses are ageing faster...which I personally put down to over complicated diets and lots more inexperienced people taking on horses. Maybe some horses give up and die of boredom because their owners are so obsessed with 'schooling' , over protecting their darlings from the cold, and carrot stick work :)

A horse can kick the bucket at any age, and I certainly would not put a number on when a horse is considered old ..its far to individual

Vast generalization and a tad tongue over the bit I know, but maybe theres a germ of truth somewhere.

I would consider quality of life and the opinion of a respected vet over anything else.
 
Woah, just read the latest posts.

VERY below the belt CPT.

Very sorry Serena about your situation and I wish you and your boy all the very best. I will keep fingers crossed for you and him.
 
cptrayes said:
I am sorry that the three of you do not see this as a serious subject of horse welfare that needs to be discussed, but I do.

Serena2005 I did not connect your thread with your post here, but please do not cause yourself any further grief by opening this thread again. I understand why you have have elected for surgery and I wish your horse the very best.
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Oh stop it! You love to be controversial! Shame on you :mad:
 
It depends on the horse but I think more people are trying to prolong their lives. I know of one horse in his 30's who is lame, skinny and in pain but is still going to hacks because he likes it :rolleyes: and another who looks like an RSCPA case and can hardly eat but because he's otherwise 'healthy' is being kept alive despite spending all day with his head down looking depressed. Obv wth advanced in medicine, care etc horses are working for longer but there almost seems to be a rivalry as to who can have the oldest horse still in work :confused:
 
Theocat said:
Hm. I've been thinking the same, but less to do with age and more to do with the sort of treatment that insurance opens up - I do think people sometimes put horses through more than they always should. Not all the time, but sometimes, I think the end result trumps the means - and I'm not convinced it's always the right path.
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Agree with this, but then I wouldn't put any of mine through colic surgery, regardless of their age.

As for old horses, I agree with you OP, they could pop their cloggs at any time once over 20 and every year of hunting or competing over that age is a bonus. But you do get some people who go on too long with them and/or do more than is fair with an older horse and there's usually a corus of 'doesn't he look good for his age!' when quite often he doesn't, he looks like an old hose!
 
Age is just a number. If this thread was started in response to another persons issues then shame on you OP, you wouldnt like it if your horse was ill and I started a thread about you! very insensitive
 
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