Old horses - are people getting unrealistic?

marmalade76 said:
Agree with this, but then I wouldn't put any of mine through colic surgery, regardless of their age.

As for old horses, I agree with you OP, they could pop their cloggs at any time once over 20 and every year of hunting or competing over that age is a bonus. But you do get some people who go on too long with them and/or do more than is fair with an older horse and there's usually a corus of 'doesn't he look good for his age!' when quite often he doesn't, he looks like an old hose!
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Any horse can 'pop it's clogs at any time'. Just because a horse turns 20 that doesn't make it more likely
 
So the OP shows her true colours on this forum yet again. You are seriously unpleasant at times, show a little consideration won't you.
 
Tbh I am surprised that the OP was this insensetive. I do not consider 20 to be old for all horses, some may be old at that age. However we have had a number of horses who have survived well into their 30's. My Old Appy lived to 33 and was in work until she was 30, not because I was in 'some competition' but because it suited her. I only retired her in the end as she refused to take an easy ridden life. Our current Oldie retired at 25, following a week long bout of colic (which was medically managed by our vet, with no offer of surgery) she is still a happy, healthy mare six years on. My maternal grandmother died in her 90's, my mother in her mid 70's. My GSx bitch is 11 years old, her sister died nearly two years ago. Whatever the species, different animals have different life expectancies, within the species. One horse at 20 may appear old, another may still appear to be as active as if it was in the prime of life.
 
I have a very different idea of what an old horse is compared to most posters on here. I personally don't view most 20 year old horses as particularly old. I have horses in their mid-late 30s and they're still being ridden and are in good shape; I class them as old horses. Regardless of age I wouldn't put any of my horses through colic surgery irrespective of their age, but I certainly don't think it is in any way wrong of another owner to take an opposite decision to mine. I've known quite a number of horses who have gone through colic surgery and only 1 has survived longer than a couple of years post surgery. Whatever choice an owner makes for their own horses is entirely up to them and I would always wish them well.
 
quirky said:
I wouldn't put any horse of mine through colic surgery. Age doesn't come into it for me.
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I don't quite understand this view point. I fully respect that it is an individual decision, but at the end of the day, surely it should be dependant on the temperament and general health, plus the financial and time situation of the owner?

I would go to the end of the earth and back to try and provide my mare with every chance of life (depending on whether myself and the vet thought her quality of life and comfort was positive).

I find it quite sad in many ways that people don't seem to want to do that.
 
Moomin1 said:
I don't quite understand this view point. I fully respect that it is an individual decision, but at the end of the day, surely it should be dependant on the temperament and general health, plus the financial and time situation of the owner?

I would go to the end of the earth and back to try and provide my mare with every chance of life (depending on whether myself and the vet thought her quality of life and comfort was positive).

I find it quite sad in many ways that people don't seem to want to do that.
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Some people may consider that the cost to the horse is too great, the lengthy box rest, etc etc and would consider it not in the horses best interests to go ahead with surgery, often with a low rate of full recovery. I am quite sure that it is not people not wanting to put the needs of the horse first, as you suggest.
 
Horses do not age like cats or dogs or even humans.

They do not get progressive organ dysfunction and failure, due to age like us (until they're VERY old and usually teeth or legs have got them long before that). They don't start getting heart disease due to age. Nor do they become more prone to cancer. Its probably due to their diet. There isn't even an age related scale for biometric parameters for horses, unlike dogs (i.e you won't compare a 9yr old dogs blood results against an normal scale, you need to use a geriatric scale)

Unless they get an outright disease or injury (and only a few are age related) the only thing that kills them is lameness (arthritis usually) or teeth issues. The only common age related illness is Cushings.

A 25yr old horse has no extra risk of anesthetic than a 5yr old horse.
 
YorksG said:
Some people may consider that the cost to the horse is too great, the lengthy box rest, etc etc and would consider it not in the horses best interests to go ahead with surgery, often with a low rate of full recovery. I am quite sure that it is not people not wanting to put the needs of the horse first, as you suggest.
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If you read my post properly, I say it should be down to the owner and vet to decide if that individual horse is of the temperament and general health to withstand the surgery and recovery. That combined with the owner's financial and time constraints are the important factors.
 
Also my 36 year old pony was jumping little fences still.....
She was pts aged 42 as she went off her feed and became disinterested. I didn't want her to have any poor quality of life and to put her through investigations at that age would have been very selfish.
 
Moomin1 said:
I don't quite understand this view point. I fully respect that it is an individual decision, but at the end of the day, surely it should be dependant on the temperament and general health, plus the financial and time situation of the owner?

I would go to the end of the earth and back to try and provide my mare with every chance of life (depending on whether myself and the vet thought her quality of life and comfort was positive).

I find it quite sad in many ways that people don't seem to want to do that.
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Why pick on Quirky? She's not the only one who's said that.

I love my horses, which is one of the reasons why I wouldn't put them through colic surgery. I also have a family, me having to nurse a horse through such surgery, not to mention the cost, would not be fair on them. Do you have children Moomin, or are you one of those who's children have four legs?
 
Moomin1 said:
I don't quite understand this view point. I fully respect that it is an individual decision, but at the end of the day, surely it should be dependant on the temperament and general health, plus the financial and time situation of the owner?

I would go to the end of the earth and back to try and provide my mare with every chance of life (depending on whether myself and the vet thought her quality of life and comfort was positive).

I find it quite sad in many ways that people don't seem to want to do that.
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And if you lived where I live you might have to go to the ends of the earth to take your horse for colic surgery. From me it's a 4-5 hour trip to the major vet hospital which performs colic surgery. There is no way I would ever travel one of my horses 4 or 5 hours in heavy city traffic when it would be in a very poorly state before setting off.
 
I have a 19 yr old tb who is still hacking out happily. We did a walk and trot dressage test recently also (prelims are too much for him now) and came 2nd.

He broke his leg 2 yrs ago and spent 3 months cross tied and 4 months of box rest after that. I wouldn't put him through another long recovery again / or an op, but I am very grateful I still have him and he is happy.
 
Would i put my 22yr old through colic surgery, No.

For two reasons A- his chances are too slim and recovery too harrowing at his age despite being healthy and still perfectly useful. B- hes not longer insured for illness and I dont have 6k+ sitting in the bank to pay for the treatment.

Thats my personal choice. I do feel sorry for anyone having to go through any such surgery with their horses regardless of age/type etc. Its a harrowing experience for all involved.

I dont agree with the whole expecting to go longer etc. I believe they keep going until they cant. Im happy my old boys still enjoying likfe and happy, makes me happy and I know im doing summat right but the day hes not and is dull disinterested or in pain then he will have made the decision for me.
 
My share mare was 21 and still ridden while acting like a 5 year old when I had her a few years back. Still going strong with her owner.
I've known horses half her age who couldn't keep up with her and she loves her riding. Will happily deposit someone if she doesn't want them on her! If she started to slow shed be retired but is happy enough and it's only hacking.

I think it depends entirely on the individual. We've a retired broodie at 14 who will live her days out as a horse now.

I wouldn't put any of mine through certain treatments and would judge on the individuals as to what I would do for other treatments. I certainly don't think 20 is that old though.
 
marmalade76 said:
Why pick on Quirky? She's not the only one who's said that.

I love my horses, which is one of the reasons why I wouldn't put them through colic surgery. I also have a family, me having to nurse a horse through such surgery, not to mention the cost, would not be fair on them. Do you have children Moomin, or are you one of those who's children have four legs?
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I did not 'pick' on Quirky, I 'picked' one quote to use. :rolleyes:

Would you like me to go back and requote everyone of the same opinion. Jeez.

No, I do not have 'biological' children. I have two 'step children' if you like.

Why on earth does that make a difference? If you are inferring that I am a fluffy bunny who can't bear the thought of pts, you are very very mistaken. I have pts many animals myself, by injection and shooting.

If people took the time to read my posts, I have said that EACH INDIVIDUAL DECISION SHOULD SURELY BE MADE ON EACH INDIVIDUAL MERIT. For someone to say they would 'never put any of there horses through this that and the rest of it' is surely a very blanket and blinded viewpoint.
 
Welham and Gammon won the Hickstead Derby when they were 21.
Hooray Henry completed Badminton (long format) at age 19.
Lenamore completed the Olympic three day event at 19.
Over To You completed Badminton at 19.
Glengarrick competed at the World Equestrian Games 3de at age 20.
 
If people took the time to read my posts, I have said that EACH INDIVIDUAL DECISION SHOULD SURELY BE MADE ON EACH INDIVIDUAL MERIT. For someone to say they would 'never put any of there horses through this that and the rest of it' is surely a very blanket and blinded viewpoint.[/QUOTE]

People have taken the time to read your posts and I would think that the bit that annoyed them was your suggestion that they were less than caring if they did not do 'all that they could' to 'save the horses life', as that 'saddened' you.
 
Moomin1 said:
I did not 'pick' on Quirky, I 'picked' one quote to use. :rolleyes:

Would you like me to go back and requote everyone of the same opinion. Jeez.

No, I do not have 'biological' children. I have two 'step children' if you like.

Why on earth does that make a difference? If you are inferring that I am a fluffy bunny who can't bear the thought of pts, you are very very mistaken. I have pts many animals myself, by injection and shooting.

If people took the time to read my posts, I have said that EACH INDIVIDUAL DECISION SHOULD SURELY BE MADE ON EACH INDIVIDUAL MERIT. For someone to say they would 'never put any of there horses through this that and the rest of it' is surely a very blanket and blinded viewpoint.
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So I was right, then :p

It was the 'end of the Earth' bit I was refering to, I would go to the ends of the Earth for my children, but not for my horses, sorry.
 
marmalade76 said:
So I was right, then :p

It was the 'end of the Earth' bit I was refering to, I would go to the ends of the Earth for my children, but not for my horses, sorry.
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You are taking things far too literally.

I merely mean that I would do as much as I possibly could to ensure my animals have the best chance of life, comfortably.

I would, and will, do that despite having children.

If you don't feel that necessary with your animals, that's your choice. I personally don't understand that logic.
 
zefragile said:
Welham and Gammon won the Hickstead Derby when they were 21.
Hooray Henry completed Badminton (long format) at age 19.
Lenamore completed the Olympic three day event at 19.
Over To You completed Badminton at 19.
Glengarrick competed at the World Equestrian Games 3de at age 20.
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Granted, there are a few exceptions, but this doesn't mean that everyone should drag their 20somethings out drag hunting, bloodhounding, endurancing, etc, etc, hell, why not run some oldies in the Grand National!?

Just because these horses were upto it doesn't mean they all are. As I said before, some people go on too long with sad looking old horses who should hang up their boots but they think it's Ok because so and so jumps 1m60 on their oldie.
 
Moomin1 said:
You are taking things far too literally.

I merely mean that I would do as much as I possibly could to ensure my animals have the best chance of life, comfortably.

I would, and will, do that despite having children.

If you don't feel that necessary with your animals, that's your choice. I personally don't understand that logic.
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You wouldn't 'cause you don't have children of your own.
 
My gelding is 23 this year, he still does pretty much everything I ask of him. I always thought he would get to 18-20 and I would retire him however as it turned out he really came into his prime aged 17 and we started going out competing / pleasure rides every weekend. Last year he held his own on the local showing circuit against much younger animals.

He is insured for vets bills still until he is 25, I pay for this to ensure he would get colic surgery / expensive treatment if he needed it. I have had him for 18 years and would like to do my best to have him around for as long as possible!

However he is a very stressy boy in the stable so if he had an accident, broken leg or similar where a long period of box rest would be required and a small pen in the field next to his friends would not suffice then I would have to call it a day for his mental well-being.
 
marmalade76 said:
You wouldn't 'cause you don't have children of your own.
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Right, so what you are saying is, that because you have children (which you are fortunate, perhaps more fortunate than some of us, to have) you woul not actually wish to give your animals every chance of life possible? Even if they were comfortable, and you could afford it, and you had the time to deal with it?

I am glad I am not, and never will be, like you in that case.
 
What the hell has having kids got to do with it. Perhaps there is a reason that particular person doesn't/can't have kids. And if kids turn you into someone that makes comments like that I'm glad mine have 4 legs!
 
Everyone has there own opinions on age and appropriate treatment but horses are living longer and are in better health in general, due to advances in veterinary medicine and care.
More than half the Badminton horses a few years ago were in their late teens,so its more than a few who are living and performing longer.
 
Moomin1 said:
Right, so what you are saying is, that because you have children (which you are fortunate, perhaps more fortunate than some of us, to have) you woul not actually wish to give your animals every chance of life possible? Even if they were comfortable, and you could afford it, and you had the time to deal with it?

Not at the expense of my family, no.

I am glad I am not, and never will be, like you in that case.
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Likewise :)
 
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