Old owner wants pony back

[amyc123]

Hi looking for some advice. 5 years ago my friend took on a pony from friends of hers who no longer wanted the pony as she was too small for them to ride and the owner didn’t have time for her. They had asked my friend if she could rehome the pony for them. I took on the pony and kept in touch with the previous owner for about a year and then they stopped getting in touch. They have now messaged me saying that they want the pony back, that they never rehomed her and that the pony was only ever on loan to me. I never paid money for her so don’t have a bill of sale but when I took the pony on they gave me her passport and signed the ownership form so on the passport the pony is in my name. They seem to think they can just come and take the pony.

 

[AmyMay]

Seems like they signed her away. Wha sort of correspondence did you have with them previously?

 

[amyc123]

Seems like they signed her away. Wha sort of correspondence did you have with them previously?

When the pony first came down they visited a couple of times and then from that it was a couple of messages of them asking how she was doing and I sent a few photos to them. After a while though they stopped messaging and I didn’t hear from the for years until now. They are trying to say that when they signed the passport form they didn’t realise what they were signing and the pony was never to be rehomed only loaned. They said though they didn’t want the pony anymore and that she was too small for them

 

[milliepops]

urgh horrible situation. it was my understanding that the passport wasn't a proof of ownership, though it clearly sounds like they did mean to sign her over to you.
with my freebie i paid £2 and we put it in writing, I was worried in case this exact scenario would happen.

are you a BHS member?

 

[AmyMay]

Seems so strange.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Does the form they signed specifically say 'change of ownership'?

 

[amyc123]

urgh horrible situation. it was my understanding that the passport wasn't a proof of ownership, though it clearly sounds like they did mean to sign her over to you.
with my freebie i paid £2 and we put it in writing, I was worried in case this exact scenario would happen.

are you a BHS member?

Looking back on it now I wish I had but it being friend of a friend I naively thought we wouldn’t be in this situation. What worries me is they paid for the pony but I’m not sure if they ever got a bill of sale or not. I’ve heard that passports are not proof of ownership. No I’m not a bhs member

 

[amyc123]

Does the form they signed specifically say 'change of ownership'?

I can’t exactly remember but it was downloaded from the passport website so it either had on it transfer/change of ownership. I had to fill my details and then they had to fill it out and sign it and I posted it off. They read the form and knew what it was. They just seem to think though that they can come and pick her up now

 

[AmyMay]

So the pony is recorded as being owned by you.

What paperwork did you get back from the Passport company?

 

[Fjord]

Can you contact the passport company you posted the form to? They will be able to provide you with a copy and hopefully advise.

 

[babymare]

Can you contact passport people. Surely they must keep records and maybe able to tell you what was actually signed. Also maybe some legal advice. Horrid situation x

 

[Goldenstar]

Do you have the messages still on your phone if so do any of them help your case that she was given away .
the fact they signed a change of ownership form will help to a certain extent .
I would move her pdq so they don’t know where she is .

 

[Carrottom]

My suspicious mind wonders if they have realized that pony values have increased substantially recently and they think they will be able to sell it.

 

[Velcrobum]

Having just checked the 2 passports in front of me Weatherbys TB and pet-iD both have "details of ownership" pages. Both were returned to the PIO and both have been over stamped confirming change of ownership. I understand that that does have a degree of proof of ownership.

 

[meleeka]

I’d just say regretfully the answer is no as the pony is yours now. They’d have to prove ownership and take you through the courts. Even if they did that they would only probably be awarded the value of the pony, not the actual pony.

You would however be better getting proper legal advice.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

They have no proof of a loan, and you have decent proof of ownership in that they signed over ownership in the passport and you've been footing the bill and primary care for a number of years with no contact or involvement from them. So I wouldn't give in. Tell them you are the owner of the pony, and if they dispute that, they should follow proper legal channels. Wouldn't hurt for you to get advice either.

 

[Equi]

So your friend paid for the pony then gave it to you? If that’s how it was then your friend owns the pony (Until she gives you a bill of sale) not them either, so in all instances they don’t own the pony. You don’t even need your friend to have a bill of sale just enough proof to show she gave x £x on date, a text saying “got the money thanks” it such.

have they had more kids/grandkids maybe?

 

[Red-1]

So they gave the pony to your friend, and you rehired the pony from your friend? I think I would pay the friend £1 and get a receipt!

 

[Mule]

Seeing as it was 5 years ago I'd just tell them no. If they want to go down a legal route they can but I doubt they'd bother.

 

[ihatework]

Whilst having the passport in your possession isn’t proof of ownership, the fact they have signed the change of ownership form should be very much in your favour. You wouldn’t do that for a loan.

Id tell them politely that the pony is legally yours and that you will not be handing it over. Then leave the ball in their court and don’t engage with them any further, tell them you will respond directly to their solicitors.

You won’t hear anything else, I’m 99.9% sure.

 

[HollyWoozle]

My suspicious mind wonders if they have realized that pony values have increased substantially recently and they think they will be able to sell it.

I had the same thought. Horses and ponies have been selling for higher than usual prices lately and I wonder if they are thinking of trying their luck in order to make some quick money.

I think @ihatework above is right. It's a horrible situation and I hope it works out for you.

 

[Ownedby4horses]

I was gifted a miniature from an ex livery, I paid £1 and she signed him over on a reciept. As another poster has said, pay your friend a £1 and get her to do a receiot for you.

 

[Polos Mum]

No help now but for anyone in similar circumstances always pay £1 and get a receipt. Technically / legally they probably are the owners (if you didn't ever purchase the pony it can't really be yours) - but morally it's clearly different.

Proving ownership isn't always straightforward esp. if no purchase receipt. There are lots of small bits of evidence that you can produce to prove you are the owner. They would then have to prove that those didn't count.

If you can get a copy of the passport documentation and IF is says 'ownership' not keeper or something more vague - that's great
A copy of your insurance showing you've insured the pony
A print out from your vets showing you've done annual vaccinations is good evidence you've cared for the pony

I would start with saying - no that she is your pony and not for sales. Then in the background collect evidence / paperwork to show you've been the keeper and taken on ownership responsibilities

The next step would then depend on what the other side's response is.

I would let your livery yard know that there is some dispute and that on no account should they let the pony off the yard without you - some people can be very convincing in their stories!