Olympic test event- reactions to the XC

[doveys]

I was a Fence Judge at yesterdays XC Test Event and found the whole experience to be excellent. Without doubt 'the schoolkids' made a great impression on both the riders and spectators, and apart from a couple of young horses who had eyes on stalks, all the others really seemed to come alive with the enthusiastic cheering. In terms of the childrens safety, the only comment I needed to make to the chaperoning teachers, was to make sure the children, when sitting on the grass, kept their feet behind the ropes as some of the riders took a very tight line on some of the course turns. I think that one of the things that I observed the most, was that of 'locals' being inappropriately dressed. The number of ladies in 'business' dress and heels defied belief.

The course itself rode very well. My concern that the uphill stretch could cause some distress to the horses, especially if hot and it was, was entirely unfounded. I was based at the end of the course and only a couple of horses came through looking tired.

Most of riders I spoke to, both competing and spectating, thought the venue and organisation to be excellent. It will be interesting to hear their thoughts once 'the dust has settled'. I for one think it's great (even if I can't use my car as a base!).

At the end of the day I got the chance to talk with a number of local residents, who to a man (and woman) were quite vociferous about 'the idiots' (their words) who are complaining at the use of Greenwich Park. Their thoughts were that having the event in their locale would be so good for the community, bringing in lots of trade and visitors. They agreed that they may have to put up with some inconvenience for a short time during the games, but on the whole the vast majority of residents welcomed the attention.

 

[Sleighfarer]

I bumped into another angry lady today. She calmed down *slightly* when I told her the course and arena were going to be dismantled; she had thought the whole thing was permanent until after next year ... Had trouble persuading her, though. She looked at me suspiciously and said: 'How do you know that?'

I told her I was in MI5

 

[teapot]

PMSL seafarer Didn't head that way in the end, am going for a mooch on sat instead.

Have to say there is a buzz of something in London now, and seeing Olympic posters everywhere helps too. Even heard a couple of people talking about '2012' on the tube.

 

[Wondermare]

I didn't mean to sound like a NIMBY. I guess I just felt a bit defensive of my kids, especially when they are local but were made to feel so unwelcome. As I said earlier, lots of them have never seen a horse, and bless them, they asked at the end if they could ride one (!). As for getting them hooked - many of their parents or carers don't have the money for a school uniform for them, let alone riding lessons. Of course, this is a whole other debate. I just wish they'd felt more welcome.

 

[teapot]

I didn't mean to sound like a NIMBY. I guess I just felt a bit defensive of my kids, especially when they are local but were made to feel so unwelcome. As I said earlier, lots of them have never seen a horse, and bless them, they asked at the end if they could ride one (!). As for getting them hooked - many of their parents or carers don't have the money for a school uniform for them, let alone riding lessons. Of course, this is a whole other debate. I just wish they'd felt more welcome.

Might be worth getting your school involved with this: http://www.hoof-in-town.com/london/schools_programme.php

 

[SusannaF]

I didn't mean to sound like a NIMBY. I guess I just felt a bit defensive of my kids, especially when they are local but were made to feel so unwelcome. As I said earlier, lots of them have never seen a horse, and bless them, they asked at the end if they could ride one (!). As for getting them hooked - many of their parents or carers don't have the money for a school uniform for them, let alone riding lessons. Of course, this is a whole other debate. I just wish they'd felt more welcome.

Try these guys too: http://www.emilefauriefoundation.org.uk/

I put a bit about Ebony Horse Club earlier – they're a great organisation started by one woman who just started taking kids to riding lessons.

 

[oldvic]

I didn't mean to sound like a NIMBY. I guess I just felt a bit defensive of my kids, especially when they are local but were made to feel so unwelcome. As I said earlier, lots of them have never seen a horse, and bless them, they asked at the end if they could ride one (!). As for getting them hooked - many of their parents or carers don't have the money for a school uniform for them, let alone riding lessons. Of course, this is a whole other debate. I just wish they'd felt more welcome.

Of course you feel defensive about your children and you don't sound like a nimby. I am sorry you were made to feel unwelcome - a polite e-mail to Tim Hadaway might be a good idea. Anyone suggesting underprivileged children will take up eventing is dreaming but there is nothing to stop them following it and maybe becoming involved in other ways if it really appeals to them. It is good for them to be encouraged to follow all sports, but especially one that Britain is good and successful at. Just imagine if we win a gold medal in their back yard (even if I support another nation more!!!!)

 

[Wondermare]

Thanks, I'll definitely put that info in front of our Head. Cheers all.

 

[Rachel Mawhood]

Hi forum - unusually, I have registered in my real name because there is an awful lot of disinformation about Greenwich Park as a proposed 2012 equestrian venue, and I hope to put some of that right.

Umm am I missing something? But as far as I'm aware most of Greenwich park is still open to the general public is it not? And the royal parks are for everyone, not just the locals. This attitude of 'our' park comes across as really really NIMBY.

Some facts about Greenwich Park, one of the Royal Parks.

1. It is still illegal to ride horses in Greenwich Park (Royal Parks Regulations 1997, regulations 3(7) and 25).

2. Actually, about 3/4 of the Park was closed to the public and, two days before the Test Event started, part of the remaining 1/4 was annexed for a "warm up track".

3. Greenwich Park is the "back yard" for thousands of Londoners from east and south-east London and further away: there is a lot of social deprivation and children living in poverty on this side of London, on cramped crime-ridden estates and run-down Victorian terraces.

Also, most big equestrian bases have crap transport links because of location, Greenwich doesn't.

Actually, when TfL finally got around to commissioning crowd-simulation reports from the firm that did these for Sydney, one of the things they discovered was that it could take 8 hours for all spectators to get from Greenwich Park to the nearest station in Greenwich.

That said, I fully agree we could have done with a long standing permanent equestrian venue, that in itself would cause issues as people would argue over location. ... then I think a round of applause is needed for the officials who have got everything ready so far and actually proved that Greenwich can be a suitable event.

The British Equestrian Federation are not doing the UK equestrian community any favours by sticking to Greenwich as 2012 venue come hell or high water. Think about it: £42 million and nothing to show for it at the end. In fact, LOCOG have been asked - and not denied - that the cost of staging the 2012 events in Greenwich is nearer £60 million now. You could have built a state-of-the-art equestrian centre for that, all paid for by the taxpayer. But instead there will be nothing, no upgraded facilities, just memories - while the UK's competitors in this sport (Germany, France, the USA) are upgrading their national facilities. See what Mark Phillips wrote in his column in the H&H 23 June 2011. Insisting on pouring this £42m (or is it £60m) gift horse into the ground in Greenwich WILL - not may - WILL impact badly on the UK's competitiveness in the years to come, eg at the next Olympics.

At the Test Event, LOCOG did not have permission to draw water from the water mains or discharge to the main sewers. There is a reason for that, and the reason will not go away between now and 2012.

 

[Rachel Mawhood]

I attended with 29 local schoolchildren, most of whom had never seen a horse. They were very, very excited and controlling them was a bit like nailing jelly to a wall. We had several complaints from fence judges and fellow spectators, and whilst I can understand their ire, I also feel that our local green space has been taken away from us and we have been given no local legacy. ... Why are we doing this? I wish some posh horsey folk would stick their necks out and admit that it's a massive mistake.

Hi Wondermare - just wanted to endorse everything you said.

 

[Rachel Mawhood]

How brilliant to take 29 young children who had no idea about the sport and keeping them under reasonable control. I really hope they enjoyed their day out. I am sorry that there were killjoys who complained. What is wrong with a bit of excitement and noise?

I gather that it affected the concentration of both horses and riders.

I am sorry they turned off the fountain (may have been a good reason for it)

Yes, LOCOG does not have Thames Water's permission to draw water from the mains for anything Olympics-related.

 

[Rachel Mawhood]

For those who say the venue is small - don't forget that this was a very much shortened course and next year there will be much more parkland available.

The course is just as twisty on the rest of the Park. Have you actually looked at the course on a map?

I did wonder about getting 50K people on given the amount of security to get in

Security for the Test Event was almost nothing except when the Duchess of Cornwall was attending. In 2012, as an Olympic venue, Greenwich Park will be - as are all crowded places - a prime terrorist target. The security will be like Heathrow to the power of 10.

I don't agree at all that the venue felt crowded. In fact my friend and I both commented that it was much LESS crowded than say Badminton where you can't get to see the fences without waiting for half an hour!

No surprise there. Badminton typically attracts 200,000-250,000. At the Test Event, there were probably less than 5,000 people there on any day.

is an advantage of having the horse events in the city because it brings them to a whole new audience. And THAT is what is important in terms of legacy in my view.

There is no equestrian legacy for children in this Olympic borough and none for children in the Olympic borough in which the Olympic stadium has been built. (Ebony is in Brixton, which is not an Olympic borough, and a lot of the children who go there are from families on State benefits. When the benefits dry up, Ebony's clientele will disappear.) The children will not be at the main event next year unless they have bought a ticket, and given the socio-economic profile of this borough I doubt that any of them has.

 

[Rachel Mawhood]

The going was incredible, you could really feel the difference when you walked onto the course as opposed to the rest of the course

Hahaha - did you walk over the course on the west side? The going would make any horse lame in minutes.

I gather some of the locals are now whingeing that the grass is a different shade of green where its been improved!

This is a misconception that LOCOG and the BEF assiduously foster, viz that Greenwich Park is just an urban park with just "amenity grass". LOCOG would hate it if you found out that Greenwich Park is an important area of biodiversity and home to protected species (bats and stag beetles). In the context of the Park, the cross-country track is not "improved" - non-native grasses have been brought in, rare habitat has been destroyed by fertilising.

 

[Rachel Mawhood]

Re. the legacy.

On the ground, the truth is that nothing has been heard for a long time about a new riding club on Shooters Hill, and Greenwich Council won't issue up-to-date information. There was talk of £200,000 - but that would be match-funding, and with all the cuts being made in Greenwich, I do not know where the rest of the money would come from - and two hundred thousand quid goes nowhere.

Mudchute Farm, which is in an Olympic borough, is receiving nothing, although many of its clientele come from south of the River Thames.

Everyone is puzzled about Ebony getting Olympic "legacy" because Brixton isn't an Olympic borough.

 

[SusannaF]

a lot of the children who go there are from families on State benefits. When the benefits dry up, Ebony's clientele will disappear.) .

Not true. Not how their funding works. They've hardly had any money from the council in all their years of operation.

Re. Ebony being chosen, they're not the only ones, and it's interesting to have the info about Shooters Hill and Mudchute, but you have to bear in mind that Ebony had no stables of their own, and they were spending longer in the bus than on a horse. It really limited what they could do.

 

[Rachel Mawhood]

The woman who told me the Queen disapproved was also going on about how she hadn't seen any squirrels for days I walked through the flower garden later and there were loads of them.

Well, the Royal Parks do cull the squirrels because they damage the tree bark. So perhaps you were lucky.

but the people complaining tend to be rather privileged.

This is so inaccurate.

 

[Rachel Mawhood]

I was a Fence Judge at yesterdays XC Test Event ... I think that one of the things that I observed the most, was that of 'locals' being inappropriately dressed. The number of ladies in 'business' dress and heels defied belief.

Hey, welcome to our capital city. Perhaps they were on their way to the office, after the Test Event.

At the end of the day I got the chance to talk with a number of local residents, who to a man (and woman) were quite vociferous about 'the idiots' (their words) who are complaining at the use of Greenwich Park.

Perhaps they were being polite to you. I am hearing EVERYWHERE that people who were for the equestrian events in Greenwich Park have changed their minds because of the brutal way the Park was made unrecognisable to those who walk in it every day, who remember their parents walking there, etc.

Their thoughts were that having the event in their locale would be so good for the community, bringing in lots of trade and visitors.

So you didn't tell them about the IOC's "clean venue" policy or about how local businesses are being told they'll have to trade only in the evening or take deliveries only at night, or how no spectators will be allowed out of the event at lunch-time so no sandwich business there. And we saw, during the Test Event, what happened to the poor visitors to the Observatory.

on the whole the vast majority of residents welcomed the attention.

I am sorry but this is not true. Hey, Greenwich Park is the home of the Prime Meridian - we have been "on the map" since at least 1886 and the introduction of Greenwich Mean Time. We welcome thousands of visitors every year to our baroque landscape and busy markets, while at the same time not being shut out of our own Park. We don't "need the attention" - we already have the world's attention - as a UNESCO World Heritage Site - the clue is in the word "world".

 

[Rachel Mawhood]

Even heard a couple of people talking about '2012' on the tube.

Yes, usually in a sentence that starts "I am getting out of London in ...", "commuting is going to be hell in ..." - no, I am not making this up, just read the Evening Standard web site and Twitter.

 

[starr_g]

Having watched the very funny docu-spoof "2012" on BBC4, it would seem Stag beetles will thrive on tree stumps so any trees cut down will benefit the beetle population!

 

[Tinkerbee]

Should have given it to the French

 

[gmw]

Should have given it to the French

Too right bet they wouldn't moan about it!!!! We were lucky enough to spend Wednesday at Greenwich it was fantastic. We traveled all the way from Anglesey to it. We haven't a chance of being there for the 'real thing'. Why cant people enjoy this ONCE IN A LIFETIME EXPERIENCE. Beetles bats squirrels and grass will survive. Wonder how many 'local' people usually use the park on a regular basis.? And as for the kids on Wednesday they behaved like kids do. Noisy, laughing, happy, running round, whats wrong with that?

 

[Rachel Mawhood]

Having watched the very funny docu-spoof "2012" on BBC4, it would seem Stag beetles will thrive on tree stumps so any trees cut down will benefit the beetle population!

You wouldn't expect a docu-spoof to be accurate, and indeed what you have just said is inaccurate.

Try here, instead

The stag beetle is a globally threatened species, protected under the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 (as amended), and listed as a priority species in the London Biodiversity Action Plan. ... Stag beetles need dead wood to complete their lifecycle. The eggs are laid underground by logs, or stumps of dead trees, and the larva (or grub) will spend up to seven years inside, slowly growing in size. But as adults they are very short-lived and generally die after mating.

http://www.wildlondon.org.uk/Habitatsandspecies/Species/Londonspriorityspecies/Stagbeetle/tabid/176/language/en-GB/Default.aspx

Normally, if the Royal Parks have to cut down a tree, they leave the stump (and therefore leave the stag beetles' habitat untouched). LOCOG requires that the stump is ground into the soil, therefore destroying the stag beetles' habitat.

 

[Rachel Mawhood]

Why cant people enjoy this ONCE IN A LIFETIME EXPERIENCE.

I'd be enjoying it as much as the next person, if the equestrian events were not destroying a site of important biodiversity, rare habitat, and threatening Bronze Age remains and trees.

Greenwich Park is a Conservation Area and so every tree has a Protection Order on it. But LOCOG's plans and contractors are damaging trees on every side.

Beetles bats squirrels and grass will survive.

LOCOG has applied a surfactant to the cross-country course on its entire length, to facilitate water take-up. This surfactant kills everything to a depth of one metre. Tell me, then, how the beetles will survive that?

All bats are Protected. Do you know what that means - it means it is a criminal offence to disturb them or harm them and their roosts.

Wonder how many 'local' people usually use the park on a regular basis.?

Thousands and thousands and thousands, old and young, rich and poor. Day in, day out, in all weathers, from all walks of life.

 

[Rachel Mawhood]

Should have given it to the French

The French would never have allowed one of their World Heritage Sites to be mutilated in the way that LOCOG's development is mutilating Greenwich Park.

The French would not dreamed of spending £60 million on a horse show in such a way that their own Olympic equestrian competitors did not benefit from it in years afterwards.

 

[Rachel Mawhood]

Unsurprisingly a google search reveals that Rachel Mawhood is an ardent and long standing campaigner against the use of Greenwich Park.....

That's why I used my real name when registering here so that people don't have to waste time wondering where I am "coming from".

I have lived in Greenwich since 1979. Back in 2005, I was neutral about the proposal to hold the equestrian events in Greenwich Park. Then I read up on LOCOG's plans and the Olympics Act and the effect these would have, not just on the Park but on the life of the whole area.

People think that Greenwich is all palaces and Listed buildings. But there is huge deprivation - and now LOCOG wants to deprive them of the one most beautiful (and free to access) thing in the Borough. For a nine-day wonder that would better be held at Windsor where there would be legacy for the UK's equestrian community. To spend £60 million in Greenwich and have nothing to show for it afterwards is just obscene, in my view.

Yes, LOCOG will "give back the Park" but only after having damaged or destroyed hundreds of trees in this Conservation Area - LOCOG has no plans whatsoever to replace any trees that die as the result of their development - and perhaps killed what used to be a "stronghold" of the stag beetle (a Protected species) and destroyed a large area of rare acid grassland habitat. This is vandalism.

 

[Swirlymurphy]

Thanks for the wake-up call Rachel. Sadly the 5,000 people there on Tuesday seemed to be having a marvelous time despite the obviously tragic circumstances. Poor fools to be so misled

What about the locals raking in the funds through impromptu B&B offerings? The ice-cream vendors, hotels, restaurants and the pubs? Shouldn't they be told as well?

 

[Rachel Mawhood]

Thanks for the wake-up call Rachel. Sadly the 5,000 people there on Tuesday seemed to be having a marvelous time despite the obviously tragic circumstances. Poor fools to be so misled

I'm not calling them "fools". Nearly 4,000 of them were children, on free tickets handed out by Greenwich Council. You wouldn't expect children - and some of these looked to be aged about 6 - to understand the implications, and I am sure that no one has tried to tell them.

Every spectator at the Test Event was there on a freebie ticket.

What about the locals raking in the funds through impromptu B&B offerings?

Greenwich is a tourist attraction so the B&Bs are in business every summer, without the Olympics. (Can you make an "impromptu" B&B offering? I thought that you had first to fulfil local authority hygiene criteria and so on.) But for the most part visitors stay in central London, not in Greenwich. The per-visitor spend in Greenwich is actually pitiful, much less than - say - in Canterbury.

The ice-cream vendors, hotels, restaurants and the pubs? Shouldn't they be told as well?

Ice-cream vendors will not be allowed to operate around the Park. The way the spectators will be "processed" to/from the local railways and roads and the Park will bypass the pubs and restaurants. There are few hotels in Greenwich, and these are already booked up with corporate bookings at four times the usual price.

We are telling the small businesses but we can't do their research for them.

 

[oldvic]

I gather that it affected the concentration of both horses and riders.

Some of the horses competing were young and not that experienced. You cannot train for crowds at home so these horses are unaccustomed to the noise and sight of lots of people. However they soon learnt to cope and will have grown for the experience. Next year the horses will have competed at top level already in order to qualify so they will not be so raw.
If it distracted the riders then they better learn to concentrate!!!!

 

[Swirlymurphy]

Well I quite understand that 6 yo children couldn't be expected to understand the implications - they were just having a good time some of them even seeing a horse in real life for the first time. What a shame. Luckily the local residents I talked to understood what was happening albeit they seemed to be having a good time too. Someone really must try and point out the error of their ways to them.

And as for handing out free tickets for a test event - shocking. Why they didn't charge everyone instead I just don't know. Then there wouldn't have been any happy children which would obviously have been much better.

And as for the B&B-wannabe-hosts - they all seemed to be booked up with lots of individuals, and the hotels likewise. Of course they all need to be advised of their foolishness too. I presume someone will do so soon.

The ice-cream vendors I spoke to, and even the pub landlord, seemed to be very happy with the games coming to the Park. I trust someone will also put them right. They seem to be expecting quite a few visitors next year, indeed they seemed to have quite a few this year as a result of the test event.

It seems so awful that there are so many local people who are all having such a good time as a result of the test event and who are clearly looking forward to the games next year, when really they are just deluded.

 

[BEUnderTheInfluence]

Oh my goodness, the amount of drivel I'm reading on here!

Suck it up, please. It is rather tedious and all this mongering will come to nothing, I'm sure you can all keep your pacifiers in until next year.

At this rate it won't be terrorist threats security will need to worry about but incensed activists doing an "Emily Davison" infront of Pippa Funnel on the XC or something.

Lest we forget the beatles.....good greif...