Olympic test event- reactions to the XC

[Over2You]

If there are thousands and thousands of old, young, rich, poor etc etc using the park on a daily basis. Shouldn't they be stopped in their tracks ,they must be doing untold damage!

That is exactly the point I was going to bring into this debate. The vast majority of those opposing the use of Greenwich, all like to point out that their beloved park (used by many thousands of people a year), must not be damaged, without realising that irreversible damage WILL have been done already. Inevitable, really, considering all those thousands of feet tramping over the grass.

On the subject of manure, and the effect it will have on the grass. What about bird droppings? You cannot protect against those, and they are very acidic too. The park is also frequented by countless dog walkers. Surely, all the urine that dogs excrete must be harmful as well. In fact, a dog urinating on grass has just the same effect as pouring undiluted bleach onto it. Not to mention all the other animals that use the park as a toilet. Once again, damage HAS been done.

I am really sick of all those whining about the park's closure too. By the way they keep harping on, you would think the park is being taken away from them forever. It is only for a couple of months for heaven's sake! It reminds me of the residents of several Perthshire communities who are so selfish, that they will go to great lengths to try and stop an annual bicycle race. They have even been known to put carpet tacks on the roads to stop the bikes. Their reason: They can't get out in their cars for a few days! The residents of Greenwich are as petty as that. With all the stirring you have done, Ms. Mawhood, it would not surprise me if people are inspired to try and sabotage Greenwich as a result of your hate-filled rants!

Also to Ms. Mawhood: You are vilifying equestrian sports, yet seem to support football. Well, my cousin stopped going to football matches years ago because of all the trouble it causes. If it's not players disgracing themselves on and off the pitch, it's the crowds and their anti-Semitic chanting. I'll never forget reading about a boy with Down's Syndrome who was beaten and killed. His crime? Wearing a Celtic shirt. If anything, you should be focusing your energy on having football violence stamped out. Instead of persecuting a collection of sports that are full of positive role models, and that are open to a wide range of competitors. By the way: I have never heard of a single arrest at an equestrian event.

Do yourself a favour and leave this forum. You only joined, so you could get peoples backs up. That is what you call trolling. Besides, you are fighting a losing battle anyway.

 

[millimoo]

Rachel Mawhood - stop being such a NIMBY.
The Olympics is a once in a lifetime event... if it ever comes back to London, we'll all probably be 6ft under. It's going to happen, get over it.

Your fight should have been taken to the IOC & BEF ahead of the decision, and if it were, it clearly fell on deaf ears.
I just hope poeple like you don't spoil it for attendees when the time comes, because that would be truly pointless and tragic.

You have a very biased view, and this forum is not the place for your posts.
Goodbye

 

[CarolineB1962]

I am in full agreement with you Rachel. I just cannot understand why the Equestrian Olympics are being held in Greenwich Park which is totally unsuitable, when we already have established courses which could accommodate a far larger crowd of people. £60 million is being spent on developing Greenwich Park only to be ripped down after the event with no lasting effect for the equestrian community. If one of the already established venues was used, probably only a fraction of this money would have to be used and a far greater number of people could be accommodated, therefore bringing in a larger revenue. The venue could then be used for training for future olympics and maybe even some of the money saved could be put to better use - Riding for the Disabled? You are right, the equestrian community need to get behind this and stand up and say "No, we deserve better". We are, after all, one of the main contenders for Olympic Gold, why not then hold it where more people can have the opportunity to see this on our home soil. There is still time to change it so let's try!

 

[wilde2]

I rarely post, but after reading this through again feel compelled to. I was not keen on Greenwich as a location originally, and when I went to the test event, still had some concerns although to be fair isn't the whole point of the test event to identify these? I think at this point the decision has been made, and the athletes are identifying areas that could be improved for next year rather than just saying its wrong to hold it here (even if they think that) Plenty of people made their opinions known early on. It won't be changed now - surely the best option would be to work to improve things rather than campaign for something that will not be altered? I am sure there are valid arguments against (as for) - but equally, I presume there would be similar arguments on other venues if selected. I realize that this is not your opinion, and nothing said on here will influence you. However, I think you are loosing rather than gaining supporters here. No one on here will be able to change the venue - and if you are trying to drum up support for your campaign, in my case where I was a sympathizer to some extent, after reading these posts, I am no longer. I think your passion for the cause and how you have presented things here will alienate people - really was that what you wanted to achieve?

 

[bseage]

I'm just concerned that Horse and Hound, the most respected equine journal is unreservedly supporting a three day event at Greenwich

Surely a more cautious initial reaction to the test event at Greenwich would have been appropriate, (Riders, Spectators and even Grooms were unanimous in their praise for Greenwich etc), as reviews in other publications were not so supportive of the venue. Daily Telegraph 7 July 'Riders Slate Greenwich' for example. Quotes from internationally respected riders were also cautious, Fox - Pitt felt that one descent was 'punishing', Andrew Nicholson a veteran of 6 Olympics, 'It's not my ideal terrain for a championship', and Pippa Funnell felt that it required a particular type of horse, Redesigned rather than Primmore's Pride. In the arena, the surface was nowhere near good enough. With only 19 of the 40 jumps in place and only 9,000 spectators of a capacity of 78,000 on the course, the venue was hardly under the pressure it will experience on cross country day.

Many experienced people have reservations about staging the event at Greenwich which covers barely 1.5 square kilometers, with much taken up by the Observatory, the ancient monument now occupied by the Maritime Museum, gardens and the connecting drives and pathways. Into this small area there will be 78,000 spectators, over 100 horses and their riders, grooms and other staff, and the media.

We all wish our sport well , but there is still time to move the three day event to a tried and tested international venue.

 

[SusannaF]

Hmmmmm.

 

[pootler]

I am a Greenwich resident and regular park user (well daughter is, just kicked her out there to walk the dogs). I have lived here for nearly ten years and have seen the parked used for all kinds of events, the biggest of which being the London Marathon with some 120,000 runners.

I annually face more disruption from the marathon than I have from the test event. Despite the disruption I support these events as I believe they are good for the Borough.

The park recovers very well despite heavy usage and I'm afraid any argument about damage etc is very hard to support.

I believe the general consensus of the locals is that the Olympics are great for Greenwich. The 12,000 applications for 1,000 tickets at the test event show that.

Whatever anyone says they are not going to change RM's mind, her mind is firmly made up and no amount of rational discussion will change the mind of a hardened NIMBY!

 

[Rachel Mawhood]

the biggest of which being the London Marathon with some 120,000 runners.

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear - pluck a number out of the air, why don't you? The number of runners in the 2011 London Marathon was 35,000. Source: the BBC

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-13107523

That's on one day, they all (a) arrive in Greenwich the night before or very early on the morning and (b) leave Greenwich altogether within two hours. And 35,000 is much less than the 50,000 that LOCOG wants to squish into Greenwich Park, on more than one day, and all arriving at the same time.

The park recovers very well despite heavy usage and I'm afraid any argument about damage etc is very hard to support.

You - we - aint seen nothing. The main event next year will have 10 times as many people in the stadium than there were in the arena this year; four times as many horses participating; the world's media; all the logistical stuff (that wasn't needed this year). There has already been damage to habitat and trees (irreversible).

I believe the general consensus of the locals is that the Olympics are great for Greenwich. The 12,000 applications for 1,000 tickets at the test event show that.

They were FREEBIES, and nearly 4,000 of them were distributed in schools. And you are wrong about the general consensus - did you hear BBC London "Drive Time" this evening?

Whatever anyone says they are not going to change RM's mind, her mind is firmly made up and no amount of rational discussion will change the mind of a hardened NIMBY!

At least I get my facts correct.

 

[Rachel Mawhood]

a capacity of 78,000 ...there will be 78,000 spectators

Just a point of information. Whenever LOCOG mentions 78,000 spectators, that includes 23,000 in the stadium. The maximum possible - ie safe - number of spectators for the cross-country would be about 50,000. Which is one quarter/one fifth of the spectators able to enjoy cross-country at Badminton.

Think of all the eventers being needlessly disappointed because they can't - because of LOCOG's insistence on this tiny tiny venue - obtain tickets to the Olympics cross-country.

 

[Rachel Mawhood]

That is exactly the point I was going to bring into this debate. The vast majority of those opposing the use of Greenwich, all like to point out that their beloved park (used by many thousands of people a year), must not be damaged, without realising that irreversible damage WILL have been done already. Inevitable, really, considering all those thousands of feet tramping over the grass.

Very funny. Just as funny as Derrick Spurr saying that joggers' plimsoles damaged the grass more than half-ton horses wearing studs going at a hundred miles an hour.

Ms. Mawhood, it would not surprise me if people are inspired to try and sabotage Greenwich as a result of your hate-filled rants! ... Also to Ms. Mawhood: You are vilifying equestrian sports, ... You only joined, so you could get peoples backs up. That is what you call trolling. Besides, you are fighting a losing battle anyway.

There have been no "hate-filled rants" from me. I have not "vilified" equestrian sports. I am not a troll.

 

[Rachel Mawhood]

Your fight should have been taken to the IOC & BEF ahead of the decision, and if it were, it clearly fell on deaf ears.

There was no public consultation before the decision about using Greenwich Park.

I just hope poeple like you don't spoil it for attendees when the time comes, because that would be truly pointless and tragic.

To be honest, from what I have seen of LOCOG's project management over the last 18 months or so, I believe that LOCOG needs no help at all in spoiling this event for the participants.

I am not against the Olympics. I do believe that Greenwich Park is not the right venue for the equestrian events, for the reasons I have given on this thread.

 

[Rachel Mawhood]

However, I think you are loosing rather than gaining supporters here. No one on here will be able to change the venue - and if you are trying to drum up support for your campaign, in my case where I was a sympathizer to some extent, after reading these posts, I am no longer. I think your passion for the cause and how you have presented things here will alienate people - really was that what you wanted to achieve?

If you had really read the whole thread, you will see that what prompted me to join was the apparent tendency of some - Test Event "fence judges" among them - to treat the locals as untermenschen.

That and the incredible amount of disinformation that was being spread around on this thread unchallenged.

 

[Over2You]

Very funny. Just as funny as Derrick Spurr saying that joggers' plimsoles damaged the grass more than half-ton horses wearing studs going at a hundred miles an hour.

Hundreds of miles an hour? You have just said you deal in facts. And, yes, thousands of footsteps (even made by plimsoles) a year over the same area will cause damage. It is called erosion.



There have been no "hate-filled rants" from me. I have not "vilified" equestrian sports. I am not a troll.

Oh, but there have been hate driven rants. With responses such as this:

Originally Posted by Spudlet:

"Actually, I used to live and work in London and have spent a lot of time in some extremely deprived areas as a volunteer, resident and professional - including yours. I have also seen deprivation VASTLY more severe in my current role with an international organisation. And I'm not exactly one of the silver spoon brigade myself (state school where assault and battery was the norm, drug addication in the family, broken home etc). Hate to burst your bubble of stereotypes there."

Your reply:

"Which makes your determination to make things worse for Greenwich children and young people - and the young people who travel to Greenwich Park from all over east and south-east London at weekends - completely incomprehensible."

You are making the Equestrian Olympics out to be some kind of horrible, evil entity for depriving people of a park for a couple of months.

You have made more than fifty-posts, but all in this thread. The only thing you have done is castigate the event. There has been nothing positive from you whatsoever. You are out to point a very long finger at the equestrian community for spoiling your enjoyment of something for several weeks. Now, you do not join an equestrian forum, then vent all your frustrations at its members for all the disruption their sports will cause. Like it or not, that is what you call trolling - thereby, making you a troll.

 

[Sleighfarer]

One of the elements on this thread that prompted me to join is the slightly sinister portrayal by equestrians of Greenwich opposition as untermensch.

See also other posts describing opposition as, say, "idiots" and old ladies who claim to know what HM The Queen is thinking.

NOGOE - which leads the opposition, since all the amenity society executives were bought off with free tickets, flattery, and LOCOG hospitality - has several lawyers on its committee, as well as other highly-skilled professionals.

I didn't say the ladies I spoke to were old. You have made that up.

 

[millimoo]

THE LOCATION IS NOT GOING TO CHANGE!!!!!
Take it up with your local MP, the majority of forum
Members are not going to fight your crusade. Your posts are pointless, and I'm not actually sure what you're trying to achieve, and getting you friends to add to your trolling will not get you anywhere either???
Go and spout to someone who can actually take your grievances further.

 

[Rachel Mawhood]

Oh, but there have been hate driven rants. [et seq]

I hesitate to suggest that you are projecting but I don't know what else it could be. I am angry about the obscene waste of money - £60 million and no legacy - the damage to rare habitat and ancient trees, and the way the people of Greenwich and the surrounding poor areas of London have been treated but I don't feel hatred. There is nothing wrong with anger. Anger can change things for the better.

You have made more than fifty-posts, but all in this thread.

This thread is about the Test Event held in Greenwich last week. I am in Greenwich. I know quite a lot about the impact of the equestrian event preparations on Greenwich Park.

There has been nothing positive from you whatsoever. You are out to point a very long finger at the equestrian community for spoiling your enjoyment of something for several weeks.

Actually, I have suggested alternatives and backed up them with reasoning. It isn't my spoiled enjoyment that prompts me to oppose the 2012 equestrian events in the Park. (I have a garden and other interests.) No, as I have also pointed out, it is unjustifiable damage to a World Heritage Site that will take years and a great deal of public money to put right (if it can be put right which, in the case of the rare acid grasslands, is doubtful), and it is the impact on thousands of people who do not have many other options for places to play and relax and socialise safely.

 

[Rachel Mawhood]

THE LOCATION IS NOT GOING TO CHANGE!!!!!
Take it up with your local MP

Greenwich and Woolwich is incredibly, undeservedly unfortunate in their MP. He is (since July 2010) chairman of Triathlon Homes which is the Olympic Village on the other side of the River Thames, ie not in his constituency. He will make a lot of money when the Village is sold so he has no interest whatsoever in representing his constituents' best interests in this matter. He has no interest in the Village being smaller, as it would be if equestrians didn't have to be accommodated there, ie if the equestrian events were held - say - at Windsor.

I'm not actually sure what you're trying to achieve

Getting the 2012 equestrian events moved to a better - larger - venue where there will be something left to show for the £60 million.

 

[Rachel Mawhood]

Two things, before I go and walk the dog and do some work.

1. Equestrians deserve to be better served by the BEF. It was the BEF that signed off the diagram (in the London Bid) of Greenwich Park drawn to the wrong scale, thus purporting to show that the Park was twice as large as it actually is. It has all been downhill since then, with the BEF trying to justify that decision. With your - ie taxpayers - money (central funding grant-aid). Trebles all round.

2. Yesterday evening, BBC London's "Drive Time" programme was broadcast live from General Gordon Square in Woolwich, asking people about Olympic legacy for Greenwich and Woolwich. A local councillor and the MP for Eltham (not the MP for Greenwich and Woolwich) took part, and both of them tried to pass off any new development (Crossrail, a new school) as "Olympic legacy". Neither said anything about a new riding school on Shooters Hill so I think we can assume that that is not going to happen, that it was all a "sop" to keep people quiet.

 

[bseage]

It is fascinating to see the conflicting views on the viability or otherwise of the Olympic 3 day event at Greenwich. I have had horses that have evented, point to pointed, showjumped and hunted for over 40 years and do not feel 'precious' about horses.

But we seem to have lost sight of the point that eventing, dressage and show jumping are the only events in which the athlete is not a human being and so we have to just think about them, the horses, for a moment.

As dressage and show jumping pose little real dangers for a horse, I'll just talk a bit about eventing.

The test event has been hailed as a success by the major equine magazine, Horse and Hound. But they failed to balance their article with the negative comments made by some competitors. Restrained though these were, because the riders have their sponsors and their places in the team to consider, there was evidence that they felt the venue and its steep terrain was less than ideal for an Olympic 3 day event.

A very steep, twisting course, at least twice as long as the one for the test course and with three ascents and descents of the steep hill will be highly stressful for the horses, but their riders will be keen to push it to get a medal. There were falls during the test event on a course that was described by Horse and Hound as 'not unduly difficult'. It was also run in ideal sunny dry conditions. What would three times up and down the hill, with 40 jumps and and over 5 kilometers of galloping do to these event horses on a wet day and with all the pressure to win that the Olympics requires?

Horse and Hound has also indicated that there will be no tangible legacy from the event, 'If the only legacy of 2012 is nailing down equestrianism's place in the Olympic pantheon then it will have achieved something momentous' H&H.

So, for an ego trip for Coe who wants a spectacular in London, to ensure eventing remains an olympic event, to please the sponsors, and to give their riders a chance of a medal, horses will have to compete at a totally unsuitable venue from which there will be no lasting legacy for Greenwich or London.

 

[watertray53]

So, for an ego trip for Coe who wants a spectacular in London, to ensure eventing remains an olympic event, to please the sponsors, and to give their riders a chance of a medal, horses will have to compete at a totally unsuitable venue from which there will be no lasting legacy for Greenwich or London.

Bravo! Well said bseage! Got it in a nut shell

 

[millimoo]

Rachel Mawhood - having done 5 minutes of googling I think you have a nerve to come onto an Equestrian forum with your friends.

The fact that you (I quote) describe 'Equestrianism is an "elite sport". completely undues any credibility you think you have.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23597474-2012-chief-greenwich-park-wont-be-harmed.do

I think you need to decide the basis of your objections.
Is it the environmental impact, lack of legacy, or just generally being a NIMBY. Fundamentally you could be perceived a bigot who thinks Horse Riding is for Toffs??? When if fact if you spent some of your energies educating yourself about the Equestrian community across the UK you may well be surprised that we come from all walks of life - with the majority working damn hard to make ends meet to take part in a sport we love.

Do you not think now is the time to accept that this fantastic event is taking place alongside all the other Sports held during the Olympics.
I'm British and proud that I will be attending Greenwich Park for this once in a lifetime opportunity.

 

[pootler]

Given all the concerns about the damage to the park, it is now possible to access areas where the horses have competed. RM seems to have a lot of time on her hands so we would all be very grateful to see photos of the irreversible damage done to the park.

 

[teapot]

Given all the concerns about the damage to the park, it is now possible to access areas where the horses have competed. RM seems to have a lot of time on her hands so we would all be very grateful to see photos of the irreversible damage done to the park.

I walked some of the course on Saturday and you had to look very carefully to find any track markings/hoof imprints. The difference in the ground though from marked course to normal parkland was HUGE and I know which one I'd rather be walking/running on as a park user. I only took one pic, and as you can see, you can only just make out where the horses landed and went forwards to the water (you can clearly see where the fence was but that'll change within days back to normal):

 

[pootler]

Exactly!

 

[Rachel Mawhood]

Given all the concerns about the damage to the park, it is now possible to access areas where the horses have competed. RM seems to have a lot of time on her hands so we would all be very grateful to see photos of the irreversible damage done to the park.

There are tons of photographs on our Flickr site

http://www.flickr.com/photos/greenwich_park/

Eg these of the prepared cross-country track where it traverses the ancient, rare acid grassland habitat. In these two pictures, you are looking at the most appalling damage - mutilation, no less, by LOCOG. So that a tiny handful of you guys can win a medal.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/greenwich_park/5929703409/in/photostream

and

http://www.flickr.com/photos/greenwich_park/5929703055/in/photostream

 

[Rachel Mawhood]

I only took one pic, and as you can see, you can only just make out where the horses landed and went forwards to the water (you can clearly see where the fence was but that'll change within days back to normal):

That jump, into the boating pond, was created specially last autumn.

This is what it usually looks like, seen from the other side of the boating pond,

https://si0.twimg.com/profile_background_images/165628731/nogoe-for-twitter.jpg

 

[Rachel Mawhood]

Rachel Mawhood - having done 5 minutes of googling I think you have a nerve to come onto an Equestrian forum with your friends.

Not aware that any of my friends is posting here. Funny attitude, you have. This is the web, and anyone can come onto this forum by creating a login and agreeing to the terms and conditions.

The fact that you (I quote) describe 'Equestrianism is an "elite sport". completely undues any credibility you think you have.

"Completely", eh?

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23597474-2012-chief-greenwich-park-wont-be-harmed.do

Lord Coe has been economical with the actualite. Greenwich Park is already harmed, in parts probably irreversibly. All because the BEF pretended to the IOC that the Park was twice as large as it is and, also, believes that an "iconic backdrop" is a sensible criterion for choosing a site for equestrian events. Isn't Coe married to an equestrian?

I think you need to decide the basis of your objections. Is it the environmental impact, lack of legacy, or just generally being a NIMBY.

All those things - and 13,500 "NIMBYs" signed our paper petition; 3,500 signed a Downing Street e-petition; more than 2,000 letters of objection were submitted to Greenwich Council (a Greenwich record) against LOCOG's original planning application. Greenwich Park is the "backyard" for hundreds of thousands of people in run-down east and south-east London.

you may well be surprised that we come from all walks of life - with the majority working damn hard to make ends meet to take part in a sport we love.

Then go and do it somewhere else - why destroy our Park? (Incidentally, for many people, I myself would qualify as a "toff". But I don't believe that that gives me the right to destroy community assets for the sake of a nice day out for myself.)

I'm British and proud that I will be attending Greenwich Park for this once in a lifetime opportunity.

You could still be proud to be British, if the 2012 equestrian events were being held at a suitable equestrian venue such as Windsor. I am not stopping you being proud to be British. In faraway Yorkshire.

 

[Kokopelli]

Rachel Mawhood you lost all credibility when you dragged your friends into this and markinf horse riding as an 'elitist sport' a very misinformed ignorant opinion.

Or even Hartpury. Most Olympics the actual equestrian venues have been about that distance or more from the host city. The money used to stage the Olympics at somewhere like Hartpury would have left a lasting legacy for equine training and development in the UK. And kept the cost of staging the actual events down considering what is already in place there.

Please believe me, as one who has lived in Greenwich since 1979, Hartpury's access problems are tiny compared with those of anywhere in south-east London. LOCOG wants everyone (except the so-called Olympic family) to use public transport. However, it is a myth to say that Greenwich has good transport connections: on the railways we have rolling stock that stops working if a hot day is followed by a rainy day, and a stalled train can close the whole line from London Bridge to Charlton (Greenwich is inbetween those two stations); on the roads, just one lorry shedding its load can gridlock the whole of London for the next 8 hours, and we have roads "known to flood" too in heavy rain (due to blocked drains) or as a result of a burst water-main. A bomb alert can close the Blackwall Tunnel (which is on the Zil lane, the route for the "Olympic family", between the Olympic Village and Greenwich Park) for half a day, even if it turns out to have been a hoax.

There is no way Hartpury would be suitable for the olympics. For a start it has no rail links or even bus links to get to and there is no where near enough parking for the amount of spectators. The main arena grandstand has a capacity of 600 people, yes 600. That wouldn't even cover the grooms and connections to the riders let alone paying spectators.

As for flooding it is a big issue, may I ask what a flood in London is like? I'm guessing it's about 6 inches of water not much? In Gloucester the entire road is totally closed off from water as deep as 3ft on the roads with a current, that would kill you if you got caught in it. There is no way you could get a car across the road when the river floods. May I also remind you of the flooding of Gloucester in 2007 which could happen again, there would be no way of accessing Hartpury without being diverted for about an hour around country lanes. I'm sure 50,000 people driving around tight windy lanes without an idea of where they are is a good idea.

I suggest you take your ignorant opinions else where as the people on this forum are not the sort that take offensive comments about their sport lightly.

 

[mtj]

Can I clarify why Windsor is not an option.

Whilst some wonderful arena events, Euro Dressage Champs etc, have been held here, the ground conditions have been proven to be unreliable for the cross country. The transport system will also not be able to cope.

Getting to and from Greenwich will not be fun. As I spent a number of years living and working in London, its not going to come as a shock.

I have read your links and noticed that the grassland habitat is specified as rare for London.
It looks very much like my poor grazing (keep it like that as i think its more natural as a horse diet) and I'm extremely confident the soil will soon revert once the games are over.

I am disappointed that we will not have access to the shops/cafes etc in Greenwich. That had always been part of my plan for the day. OH might be releaved...

 

[Rachel Mawhood]

Can I clarify why Windsor is not an option.

Whilst some wonderful arena events, Euro Dressage Champs etc, have been held here, the ground conditions have been proven to be unreliable for the cross country.

If some of the £60 million had been spent preparing the cross-country track in the same way (I have read up on this) as that in Hong Kong, it would be perfect.

I'm extremely confident the soil will soon revert once the games are over.

No, it won't. Acid grassland is called "acid" because of the low-nutrient and natural extreme acidity of the soil (pH 4-5.5). LOCOG's preparations on the cross-country course included applying an (alkaline) surfactant and then watering with London tap water which has a pH of 9. When we carried out tests, about two months ago, we got astonishingly high (alkaline) readings on the cross-country course. We are going to repeat the tests, at least once.

If, and it is a big if, the acid grassland can be restored - I hope you will acknowledge Natural England to be experts on this? - it will take about a decade, cost a great deal, and require specialised dedicated management. Eg the track will have to be mown separately from the rest of the acid grasslands and the clippings swept up, not allowed to rot down.