OMG Clayton Fredericks Burghley XC

Give the guy a break. After rewatching the footage on burghley tv I have to say his reaction was nothing of concern! He looks over, sees the horse is standing and gives it a pat as its lead away by the steward.
 
I find it unbelievable that folk are so darned judgemental. Crikey Clayton problably bloomin well hurt himself you know and it's not the done thing for a bloke to break down in pain. He clearly cared for his horse; he patted it as it went past - they were both in a great deal of shock I imagine.
These competition horses are impeccably looked after - they are shod regularly, wormed regularly. They have their teeth and backs checked and often have physio and body work etc.There have been threads on here asking people how often they worm shoe etc and there are I know many who delay calling the vet or booking the dentist and getting feet seen to - all far greater sins in my mind to show caring than Clayton at Burghley. How anyone can say that a rider doesn't care about their horse when they don't perhaps run to it after a winding fall on both parts is beyond me :mad:
 
LaurenBay said:
I don't understand why everyone is jumping on Clayton.

He took a bad fall and when he was up he looked over the jump to see the Horse standing up, he looked very relieved. He was also seen patting is Horse! what would you have liked him to do? Dive headfirst over the jump to see the Horse?!
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^This^ If the horse hadn't stood up or wasn't standing on all 4 legs then if he gave this reaction, then yes it would be disgusting.

On another point, the horse should have been retired earlier in the course. You can see he is visibly tired from the beginning but especially after the brush jumps in the water, you can hear him clip nearly every jump. There wasn't a hope in hell he was going to get over that huge jump cleanly!
 
Looked to me that he looked over the fence to check his horse was up and was then a) winded and b) walking round to get to the bottom of the fence, when he was (properly) accosted by a steward. Clayton did hack back, at a walk. The horse looked fine as it came past us, at the end of the course.

The judge/ steward briefing for Burghley is a whole day, with presentations from vets, doctors, etc. Many have been fence judging/ stewarding there for donkeys' years. In general terms, if there's a fall, someone will go for the horse, another for the rider. If there is any doubt as to whether horse/ rider is fit to leave the course, a vet or doctor is called for on the radio. First aiders are everyewhere you look. It's a very well oiled operation.

If a fence judge thinks a horse looks tired, (s)he will radio in and someone in control will look at it. I don't want to generalise but the fence judges I've spoken to are experienced horse people. Each fence judge has a red flag and will very quickly step in to pull someone up if that is radio'd through by control.

Of the horses that reached us, only a couple looked tired. I'd commented at quite how much a lot of them seemed to have in the tank - you don't always see quite so many riders hauling and throwing out 'whoas' coming into the last couple of fences! Of course, it was rather a quiet day, peppered by the odd horse, at the end of the course!
 
Sophstar said:
^
On another point, the horse should have been retired earlier in the course. You can see he is visibly tired from the beginning but especially after the brush jumps in the water, you can hear him clip nearly every jump. There wasn't a hope in hell he was going to get over that huge jump cleanly!
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Exactly the point I raised pages ago. The world was watching one of the top events in the horseworld. Some of the best in the world riders and horses showcasing horse sport. Many have commented on the difficult season event riders have had with lost starts and problems in fittening horses, citing these reasons for the sights we all witnessed of exhausted horses at Burghley.

In my rather simple mind, if the horse is not fit enough for the ask - don't ask. The racing world would not send a top class horse to a major meeting under cooked and then make excuses for an unsavoury sight.

I doesn't bother me if a horse is cussed or kissed, I do both on a daily basis with my rabble. What does bother me is the sight of respected, experienced riders pushing tired horses, the vast majority of them would only achieve a completed status rather than top 20 anyway. Then again, I suppose it is a business for many and horses that have completed are worth far more than those with a pulled up in their records.

Aside from the fallers, the sight of tired but still trying horses hauling themselves over the fences, landing in a heap and then being rewarded with a good few 'sharpeners' a few strides after the fence just makes me wince.

However, what do I know, never evented in my life, but when the hunter is ploughing a furrow with his nose and the reins are like two house bricks, I look for my box not for the next fence.
 
Sophstar said:
^This^ If the horse hadn't stood up or wasn't standing on all 4 legs then if he gave this reaction, then yes it would be disgusting.

On another point, the horse should have been retired earlier in the course. You can see he is visibly tired from the beginning but especially after the brush jumps in the water, you can hear him clip nearly every jump. There wasn't a hope in hell he was going to get over that huge jump cleanly!
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and
AdorableAlice said:
In my rather simple mind, if the horse is not fit enough for the ask - don't ask. The racing world would not send a top class horse to a major meeting under cooked and then make excuses for an unsavoury sight.

I doesn't bother me if a horse is cussed or kissed, I do both on a daily basis with my rabble. What does bother me is the sight of respected, experienced riders pushing tired horses, the vast majority of them would only achieve a completed status rather than top 20 anyway. Then again, I suppose it is a business for many and horses that have completed are worth far more than those with a pulled up in their records.

Aside from the fallers, the sight of tired but still trying horses hauling themselves over the fences, landing in a heap and then being rewarded with a good few 'sharpeners' a few strides after the fence just makes me wince.

However, what do I know, never evented in my life, but when the hunter is ploughing a furrow with his nose and the reins are like two house bricks, I look for my box not for the next fence.
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Seriously, wtf were/are you watching? Clayton was clear to this point. He jumped the Trout Hatchery as well as anyone all day - made the distance easily (LOTS didn't) and jumped out super-clean. He jumps the huge log spread (which is truly enormous) beautifully with ears pricked. He rubs the Pagoda (many did) but doesn't touch either part of the white rails with drop or the corner. Yes, he knocks the white parallel - again, many did! He doesn't touch the corner at the Rolex combo, although he brushes through the brush tops (many did, I think this saps energy, the drag of the brush, fwiw). He skips up the Dairy Farm steps as well as any did, makes the distance easily (again, some didn't).
The one before the Leap he jumps well, just rubs it a little, no big deal. These horses are used to rubbing xc fences here and there, they often do, it doesn't mean they are exhausted!
NO horse was galloping with its head on the floor. And this horse looked (and I bet felt) FINE until suddenly he didn't respond for some reason.

Watch Willa Newton's round. She's already had a silly run-out, and gone a couple of long routes. The little fence before the Leap, her horse chips 1 in and jumps it badly (far worse than Clayton's did!), she gives him a reminder, he sharpens up, and she gets a really good jump over the far larger Leap. That's what usually happens when you give a horse a reminder.

As for the fitness thing... tish tosh (that's the polite version.) Yes, lots of cancellations this year, but I'd lay my life that all the horses that got to Burghley would have had all the fitness work they needed. That's what their riders do fgs, they bet their lives on their horses being fit and ready for it.
The going was weird, sticky and dead, a bit holding. Horrible. It looked as if it would be great but the amount of rain we had on Wed, Thurs and Fri did not help at all.
But these horses were NOT exhausted and I bet Clayton's felt as fine as it looked, until suddenly it didn't respond as he needed.
 
kerilli said:
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Seriously, wtf were/are you watching? Clayton was clear to this point. He jumped the Trout Hatchery as well as anyone all day - made the distance easily (LOTS didn't) and jumped out super-clean. He jumps the huge log spread (which is truly enormous) beautifully with ears pricked. He rubs the Pagoda (many did) but doesn't touch either part of the white rails with drop or the corner. Yes, he knocks the white parallel - again, many did! He doesn't touch the corner at the Rolex combo, although he brushes through the brush tops (many did, I think this saps energy, the drag of the brush, fwiw). He skips up the Dairy Farm steps as well as any did, makes the distance easily (again, some didn't).
The one before the Leap he jumps well, just rubs it a little, no big deal. These horses are used to rubbing xc fences here and there, they often do, it doesn't mean they are exhausted!
NO horse was galloping with its head on the floor. And this horse looked (and I bet felt) FINE until suddenly he didn't respond for some reason.

Watch Willa Newton's round. She's already had a silly run-out, and gone a couple of long routes. The little fence before the Leap, her horse chips 1 in and jumps it badly (far worse than Clayton's did!), she gives him a reminder, he sharpens up, and she gets a really good jump over the far larger Leap. That's what usually happens when you give a horse a reminder.

As for the fitness thing... tish tosh (that's the polite version.) Yes, lots of cancellations this year, but I'd lay my life that all the horses that got to Burghley would have had all the fitness work they needed. That's what their riders do fgs, they bet their lives on their horses being fit and ready for it.
The going was weird, sticky and dead, a bit holding. Horrible. It looked as if it would be great but the amount of rain we had on Wed, Thurs and Fri did not help at all.
But these horses were NOT exhausted and I bet Clayton's felt as fine as it looked, until suddenly it didn't respond as he needed.
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Having not managed to watch any of the coverage and having met Clayton and Lucinda on a visit to their yard I just had to go and watch the clip to see what you were all referring to and to be honest I don't know what you are all going on about.

He falls...a nasty fall for rider and horse, gets up glances over at his horse, who is STANDING in the ditch then lets the stewards do their jobs!!

The guy has just had a massive off, it doesn't look like his air jacket deployed....maybe you should cut him some slack.

And as far as the horse whinying goes... sounded more like a 'oh s**t" wuffle than an in pain whiny!!!

I'm glad they are both well and ok.
 
I watched it on the tv and just thought it looked like a unfortunate nasty fall. Then today I spoke to a friend who was stood at the fence at the time and said that the horse looked very tired coming into the fence ( I did say that the horses did not look to be overly tired on the tv coverage) and didnt jump the fence before it very well either and his riding was one of the worst displays of horsemanship she had seen. Not good. Hope the horse is not too sore after it.
 
So if CF had started screaming for his horse the second he hit the deck, you'd all be okay with how he reacted?

To be honest, I think his reaction was the better one- the last thing a horse who has just had a crashing fall needs is his hysterical rider riling him up even more.
 
meandmyself said:
So if CF had started screaming for his horse the second he hit the deck, you'd all be okay with how he reacted?

To be honest, I think his reaction was the better one- the last thing a horse who has just had a crashing fall needs is his hysterical rider riling him up even more.
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Again - a bit silly. Not sure anyone has suggested that he should have been 'screaming' for his horse 'hysterically' and so 'riling the horse up'. Have you got a point without exaggeration?
 
welsh_horses said:
I watched it on the tv and just thought it looked like a unfortunate nasty fall. Then today I spoke to a friend who was stood at the fence at the time and said that the horse looked very tired coming into the fence ( I did say that the horses did not look to be overly tired on the tv coverage) and didnt jump the fence before it very well either and his riding was one of the worst displays of horsemanship she had seen. Not good. Hope the horse is not too sore after it.
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I was standing at the fence too, I was about 20' from it, on the side near Winner's Avenue, right against the ropes. I had a totally clear view of what happened and I'm pretty experienced and pretty vociferous about bad riding. I've watched the vid again and it is exactly as I remembered. He did all he could, he did NOT ride the fence badly, the horse just suddenly dried up on him, did not respond as it should have, as they usually do to a quick wake-up (watch the vid of Willa Newton over those 2 fences for a comparison). I feel really sorry for him for having had such a totally **** year, and all this horrible and imho totally undeserved criticism is not nice at all. "worst displays of horsemanship?" Give me a ****ing break.
I hope he doesn't see this thread.
 
Billie1007 said:
Again - a bit silly. Not sure anyone has suggested that he should have been 'screaming' for his horse 'hysterically' and so 'riling the horse up'. Have you got a point without exaggeration?
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Well, everyone on the other side of this argument is exaggerating- I figured it was my turn to have a go. ;)

Seriously though- what more do you expect of him? What didn't he do that you all wanted him to do?
 
kerilli said:
I was standing at the fence too, I was about 20' from it, on the side near Winner's Avenue, right against the ropes. I had a totally clear view of what happened and I'm pretty experienced and pretty vociferous about bad riding. I've watched the vid again and it is exactly as I remembered. He did all he could, he did NOT ride the fence badly, the horse just suddenly dried up on him, did not respond as it should have, as they usually do to a quick wake-up (watch the vid of Willa Newton over those 2 fences for a comparison). I feel really sorry for him for having had such a totally **** year, and all this horrible and imho totally undeserved criticism is not nice at all. "worst displays of horsemanship?" Give me a ****ing break.
I hope he doesn't see this thread.
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Agree again, Clayton may not be everyones cup of tea but he is a very experienced rider, and tbh the best person to judge if the horse is able to go on, is the person in the plate imo. These riders risk theirs as well as the horses lives taking on these courses, and im pretty sure theyre not going to continue to do that thinking ...... This horse cant make it, and neither would the ground jury
 
Interesting reading! Cut the poor bloke some slack - how can a split-second reaction following a really heavy, nasty fall escalate into an epic 18 page dissection of someone's private life, including how his family is perceived publicly and how he trains his horses?

For what it's worth, I know the owners of one of the Fredericks' horses and have met Team F lots of times whilst out supporting my friends horse at various events. They are always pleasant, friendly and the horses are meticulously cared for and at peak fitness - I don't think you could find fitter horses. I'm really surprised by the attitude of some people on here.
 
I wish some people cared more about their horse because some people just let their horse get on with it and walk away so that some other nice person has to go and get his horse for him. I know that as soon as I fall off I get up and go and see whether my pony is alright and give her a kiss and a hug. So I am very upset that that man didn't go and see whether his pony was alright.:mad::mad::mad::mad: I am very mad indeed so if you were wandering what kind of face I am pulling it is a mad face as in mad cross mad.
 
minnierosie said:
I wish some people cared more about their horse because some people just let their horse get on with it and walk away so that some other nice person has to go and get his horse for him. I know that as soon as I fall off I get up and go and see whether my pony is alright and give her a kiss and a hug. So I am very upset that that man didn't go and see whether his pony was alright.:mad::mad::mad::mad: I am very mad indeed so if you were wandering what kind of face I am pulling it is a mad face as in mad cross mad.
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Oh dear..................
 
Minnierosie, either you're a troll or you're about 12, I can't tell. ;) ;)
The rider had just had a VERY heavy fall. He was possibly winded, maybe in pain, and had a lot of adrenalin running through him as well as a lot of emotions.
"Some other nice person" is actually a TRAINED STEWARD who is there at the fence ready to do just what they did. Better to have the horse tended by a calm, trained person than a possibly injured rider. The horse does not care who loosens his girth, and doesn't need kissing and hugging at that stage.
To have a possibly injured, possibly faint rider rushing in to try to help the horse would really not be a good idea.
 
There's a subtle difference between falling off Pedro the shetland who's tripped over a daisy at a walk and taking a crashing fall over an enormous 4* fence.
 
Mildred said:
There's a subtle difference between falling off Pedro the shetland who's tripped over a daisy at a walk and taking a crashing fall over an enormous 4* fence.
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Excellent! FWIW I had a bad fall showjumping, tangled up in all the poles & very winded & trainer thought I had a broken pelvis, I was confused & shocked & for a few moments I couldn't even think about where my lovely mare was, I had no idea if she had fallen too, but I was winded & in a lot of pain, as I began to recover a bit, then I looked round for her & she was fine having been caught by a vet on a visit to the yard, trainer was attending to me, quite rightly. My fall was nowhere near on the scale of Clayton's, so if I was in pain & in shock & unable to focus on what was going on, then certainly so was he!
 
I dont really have anything particularly interesting to add to this thread that hasnt already been said by Kerilli et al (well said i must add!), but the 'pedro tripping over a daisy in walk' by Mildred comment actually made me choke on my cup of tea and end up spitting rather a lot of it over my laptop, and i have a horrible feeling some may have landed on my boss (not that he's noticed... yet...) so thank you for that, the highlight of my day so far!

I know when I have fallen off i have gone straight to my horse, however, I cannot compare any fall i've ever had with a fall over the Cottesmore leap, I walked the course with Sam Griffiths on Friday, and stood in the ditch and walked all around the jump... just approaching it would give most riders a heart attack - flying over the fence head first without your horse and landing the way Clayton did would definitely leave me a useless mess on the ground. I'm quite positive Clayton looked to see the horse was standing and then in likelyhood was told by the stewards to go with them! I'm saying all this and if i'm honest, I have never ever warmed to the Fredericks at all, however I can appreciate he is a professional and knows what he's doing!
 
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