On lead dog badly injured by a wild boar/domestic pig hybrid sow

[palo1]

I think many of the things mentioned in your last para are easily achievable and would go a long way towards helping the general public to become more familiar with a less 'tidy' local enviromnent, without being quite so worried about what the neighbours think about their unmowed lawn.

I agree in principle but think it likely that people would massively struggle to accept those kinds of changes in reality. I mean, not being allowed to wash your vehicle whenever you want, not have a neat, stripy lawn if you want, not have the surface of choice for your driveway? People will believe and say that their freedoms are being unnecessarily restricted I think.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I agree in principle but think it likely that people would massively struggle to accept those kinds of changes in reality. I mean, not being allowed to wash your vehicle whenever you want, not have a neat, stripy lawn if you want, not have the surface of choice for your driveway? People will believe and say that their freedoms are being unnecessarily restricted I think.

That is what I meant by familiarising people with the effects of the legislation that you mentioned. Change happens incrementally, over time and we should at least be facilitating it if not legislating for it. I live in a listed building, we would like to put solar panels on the south facing roof but are not allowed to do so. Also the cost is prohibitive. We should be allowed to make the change and financially encouraged to so, imho.
If one house did it, others would follow. The houses might not look exactly as they did when built but their effect on the environment could be lessened

 

[Clodagh]

If we didn’t mow our lawn it would be unusable very quickly. We leave edges and we are lucky to have a paddock but not mowing the lawn, here in Devon, would mean no more sitting out there or the dogs having a last pee after a few weeks.

 

[cobgoblin]

If we didn't mow our lawn we wouldn't get out of the house for oak and sycamore trees.

 

[Clodagh]

If we didn't mow our lawn we wouldn't get out of the house for oak and sycamore trees.

That would be proper rewilding

 

[palo1]

If we didn’t mow our lawn it would be unusable very quickly. We leave edges and we are lucky to have a paddock but not mowing the lawn, here in Devon, would mean no more sitting out there or the dogs having a last pee after a few weeks.

I hear you. I have 'rewilded/left unmown' a grass area at the back of our house where the laundry goes on the line. I moved a path to the washing line and one to another gate. That area is now overwhelmed by brambles and docks lol but I am sticking with it for now as have many other priorities. It doesn't look great - certainly no wild flower meadow lol. Family members say it is a shame to 'let the lawn go' too though I am pretty shameless. I have to accept that there are benefits to the plants and invertebrates even while it is sort of not aesthetically my bag. I am also slightly concerned about it providiing easy cover for Mr Rat and his many family members... I think many of us will have to face similar experiences and discomfort if we are to make a difference to biodiversity. I just hope it looks better in a couple of years tbh and OH says, rightly enough that the rest of our place is already wild enough...but that isn't quite the approach needed I don't think!

 

[Burnttoast]

I think rewilding covers such a vast spectrum of scenarios that it is difficult to pin down. Rewilding your lawn is very simple. Rewilding landscapes is far more complex and overlaid with all manner of cultural, logistical and other issues. I think rewilding has been a bit mis-sold tbh. I am in favour of the general principles and definitely would do anything I can to support the survival of wild species and environments but I don't think nearly enough has been said of the sacrifices that we MUST make to enable improved biodiversity and landscape level change. I know why that is obviously but I think it is really cynical 'insta' influenced ideology rather than nuts and bolts climate action. I have been on a safari and both OH and I agreed that we would rather pay to support that kind of landscape and NOT see the wild inhabitants than have the experience manufactured through a manipulated 'wilderness' or to risk losing species and landscapes for ever. But I think a great many people, if they invest emotionally in something like rewilding, want something in return. I think we should accept that what we get in return is an improved environment and possibly very little leisure or pleasure outcomes, yet those are the things that rewilding is relying on to support it economically (ie the argument that replacing farming with wilderness will result in income from tourism etc). I don't see that happening as if we have rewilding on the scale that some people suggest it is needed, it would not be enough of a novelty for people to put their money into it and it would probably not be ethical to have vast numbers of people trooping round an environment that is genuinely supposed to be self managing. I think it is difficult but there are much easier ways to make improvements to our environment than worrying about whether or not we can support wolves. Which I really don't think we can in the UK. Maybe people shouldn't be allowed to tarmac their driveways, use any weedkiller or pesticide, buy artificial grass for domestic purposes, cut hedges or grass at certain times of year etc. Maybe supermarket carparks should have to be permeable and their buildings covered in solar panels, maybe we should have far higher sanctions on the production and use of plastics etc. But then, those things would be massively unpopular lol!! I think many, many people want to have their cake and eat it...

As far as the sustainability of projects is concerned it rather depends on the project. A lot of the Scottish ones are run by (extremely) wealthy owners who don't have the need for much footfall, which is probably a good thing as not many people fancy getting to Alladale. In contrast Knepp was in need of funds given the massive overdraft they'd run up trying to farm intensively. The tourism side no doubt brings in money but it's hardly enormous and a lot of their income is derived from renting buildings and houses, which most estates would also have access to in some form. Ken Hill do a bit of everything, and still run an arable farm on the estate. Much of the other renaturing going on with the farmer's wildlife network in west Norfolk is done as part of farm management and there's no provision for public access beyond RoWs, and no need for it. On the other hand there's a pretty big market in the lowlands for nice cafes with a view of 'unspoiled' nature. The proportion of people who actually want to leave the cafe and walk about in it is quite small. My friend who runs a very successful farmshop/cafe/regen mixed farm, cow with calf, all very interactive, still has a vast majority of her visitors turning up for lunch and never going beyond the car park although the offer to see more is there.

The Wild East project is mainly about encouraging people towards the stuff you mention at the end of your post. There will always be plenty of people who have no interest in it though. I hope they won't complain too much when there's no fruit in the shops but I'm betting they will because they won't have the first clue why there's no fruit in the shops....

There's also the view, of course, that all this stuff, and this focus on people and their gardens and driveways, is just a way of diverting attention away from govts and FF and chemical companies.

Oh and there's the land sparing/sharing debate as well.....

I don't think anyone has the answers tbh.

 

[Parrotperson]

I hear you. I have 'rewilded/left unmown' a grass area at the back of our house where the laundry goes on the line. I moved a path to the washing line and one to another gate. That area is now overwhelmed by brambles and docks lol but I am sticking with it for now as have many other priorities. It doesn't look great - certainly no wild flower meadow lol. Family members say it is a shame to 'let the lawn go' too though I am pretty shameless. I have to accept that there are benefits to the plants and invertebrates even while it is sort of not aesthetically my bag. I am also slightly concerned about it providiing easy cover for Mr Rat and his many family members... I think many of us will have to face similar experiences and discomfort if we are to make a difference to biodiversity. I just hope it looks better in a couple of years tbh and OH says, rightly enough that the rest of our place is already wild enough...but that isn't quite the approach needed I don't think!

Quite right

Leaving something unmown isn’t rewilding it’s just leaving it unkempt!

There’s a lot of work that needs to go into rewilding up to and including mowing when necessary for the advantage of insects and plants alike.

Same as ‘plant a tree’ myth. Planing trees is all well and good but it needs to be done sympathetically and with the right species. Otherwise it’s a waste of time.

 

[Burnttoast]

Quite right

Leaving something unmown isn’t rewilding it’s just leaving it unkempt!

There’s a lot of work that needs to go into rewilding up to and including mowing when necessary for the advantage of insects and plants alike.

Same as ‘plant a tree’ myth. Planing trees is all well and good but it needs to be done sympathetically and with the right species. Otherwise it’s a waste of time.

Leaving grass long is actually incredibly beneficial for a large number of insects (eg certain grassland butterflies), small mammals and, depending on the location, amphibians.

 

[AmyMay]

Leaving grass long is actually incredibly beneficial for a large number of insects (eg certain grassland butterflies), small mammals and, depending on the location, amphibians.

This.

We’re lucky, we have a very large garden and small woodland. This enables me to leave areas unkempt and unmown. As well as enjoying more manicured areas and boarders.

Our back lawn (which is behind the house and not used) is mown maybe three times a year. It’s currently full of grasshoppers

 

[Red-1]

We keep the whole place cut short because of adders. Plus I can't find the dog poos on the lawn if it is long.

As far as that poor dog goes, was it not predictable that a wild boar hybrid may attack a dog? If so, and it is a public area, I think the estate should pay the vets bills.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Even a domestic sow with piglets might attack a dog walker, they are known to be protective. I love pigs, as it happens, but I wouldn't knowingly walk my dog through an area where I might encounter a free range pig.

The sow, the dog walkers and the dog have all been failed. I agree that the estate ought to pay the dog's vets bills.

 

[Parrotperson]

Leaving grass long is actually incredibly beneficial for a large number of insects (eg certain grassland butterflies), small mammals and, depending on the location, amphibians.

Yes. But. Not always and in all circumstances. It varies considerably as to where and when.

There’s a lot to consider in ‘rewilding’. And it still has to be managed.

 

[Burnttoast]

Yes. But. Not always and in all circumstances. It varies considerably as to where and when.

There’s a lot to consider in ‘rewilding’. And it still has to be managed.

I know that. I was responding to this sweeping statement:


Leaving something unmown isn’t rewilding it’s just leaving it unkempt!

 

[twiggy2]

As far as the sustainability of projects is concerned it rather depends on the project. A lot of the Scottish ones are run by (extremely) wealthy owners who don't have the need for much footfall, which is probably a good thing as not many people fancy getting to Alladale. In contrast Knepp was in need of funds given the massive overdraft they'd run up trying to farm intensively. The tourism side no doubt brings in money but it's hardly enormous and a lot of their income is derived from renting buildings and houses, which most estates would also have access to in some form. Ken Hill do a bit of everything, and still run an arable farm on the estate. Much of the other renaturing going on with the farmer's wildlife network in west Norfolk is done as part of farm management and there's no provision for public access beyond RoWs, and no need for it. On the other hand there's a pretty big market in the lowlands for nice cafes with a view of 'unspoiled' nature. The proportion of people who actually want to leave the cafe and walk about in it is quite small. My friend who runs a very successful farmshop/cafe/regen mixed farm, cow with calf, all very interactive, still has a vast majority of her visitors turning up for lunch and never going beyond the car park although the offer to see more is there.

The Wild East project is mainly about encouraging people towards the stuff you mention at the end of your post. There will always be plenty of people who have no interest in it though. I hope they won't complain too much when there's no fruit in the shops but I'm betting they will because they won't have the first clue why there's no fruit in the shops....

There's also the view, of course, that all this stuff, and this focus on people and their gardens and driveways, is just a way of diverting attention away from govts and FF and chemical companies.

Oh and there's the land sparing/sharing debate as well.....

I don't think anyone has the answers tbh.

The wealthy scottish estate owners are receiving so much funding from the government that they don't need any footfall they are getting richer by planting trees.
It's not rewilding though, it's not natural or managed regeneration, it's massive planting in straight-lines, too close together so natural regeneration has no chance, all non flying or climbing animals are fenced out and yhe fences are not removed, everyone should walk through these areas and witness the lack of mammalian wildlife. I am always wo during how many arachnids and invertebrates are being lost by changing the environments they live in so quickly.

 

[cobgoblin]

Land that is left untouched will definitely rewild itself. Wild implies untouched.

Perhaps it's time for a new name for this 'rewilding' especially if people want to reinstate predators and dangerous animals that the uk got rid of hundreds of years ago.

 

[Goldenstar]

That is what I meant by familiarising people with the effects of the legislation that you mentioned. Change happens incrementally, over time and we should at least be facilitating it if not legislating for it. I live in a listed building, we would like to put solar panels on the south facing roof but are not allowed to do so. Also the cost is prohibitive. We should be allowed to make the change and financially encouraged to so, imho.
If one house did it, others would follow. The houses might not look exactly as they did when built but their effect on the environment could be lessened

I always remind people that once no houses had chimneys , I think solar panels and the like are the same .

 

[misst]

We have a smallish back garden which we mow and have planted borders which I try to make sure are insect friendly. We have an area behind our summerhouse which is left rough and hedgehogs and small creatures can nest there. There is a woodpile for insects too. Then we have a chicken area. We have bird feeders and running water too - just a fountain but the birds and insects drink and bathe from it. It attracts a wide variety of insects and birds and small mammals including foxes.

Out front we have a large heather border which runs onto a common, no fence but a ditch marks our boundary- this is not managed except to cut it back once a year. The Surrey Wildlife manage the ditches. There are brambles and some gorse and some broom interspersed with it and we do get adders and slow worms and lizards coming off the common onto our drive. Next year we are going to put a proper pond on an unused front area which should attract more frogs toads and other aquatic creatures. It is the best we can do and not a lot but over the 10 years we have lived here we have increased our diversity around the house a lot. Small changes help more than people might think. None of it expensive or high maintenance.
I don't think you have to "rewild" to help nature. I think you just have to make these small changes and nature can help itself. We provide a route through our garden with holes in the fences to adjacent properties which do the same - it is a corridor to another part of the common and avoids them having to cross roads at all for all the small creatures.
The boar/pig hybrid sounds a bit over the top - pigs are used on our common as are goats and cows to manage the landscape very sucessfully. They chose breeds which are noted for their calm non aggressive natures. I have not heard of problems though the goats can get a bit whiffy in the summer .

 

[Honey08]

It sounds like an unlucky accident, the dog got too close to where it was rearing young. I’ve lived near wildfire in Italy and never saw one that didn’t run away if it heard you coming.

 

[Burnttoast]

The wealthy scottish estate owners are receiving so much funding from the government that they don't need any footfall they are getting richer by planting trees.
It's not rewilding though, it's not natural or managed regeneration, it's massive planting in straight-lines, too close together so natural regeneration has no chance, all non flying or climbing animals are fenced out and yhe fences are not removed, everyone should walk through these areas and witness the lack of mammalian wildlife. I am always wo during how many arachnids and invertebrates are being lost by changing the environments they live in so quickly.

As already said here sometimes rewilding needs help. Tree planting in an area where there are very few native trees left would be one of those times. There's nothing wrong with either govt subsidies (plenty of stinking rich landowners growing barley in the lowlands receive them too) or planting trees in straight lines. Natural wastage will make sure that they don't stay in straight lines for long. It's not forestry. Fences will be removed, that's the point, but not while the trees are still vulnerable to browsing or there was no point planting them.

 

[Clodagh]

As already said here sometimes rewilding needs help. Tree planting in an area where there are very few native trees left would be one of those times. There's nothing wrong with either govt subsidies (plenty of stinking rich landowners growing barley in the lowlands receive them too) or planting trees in straight lines. Natural wastage will make sure that they don't stay in straight lines for long. It's not forestry. Fences will be removed, that's the point, but not while the trees are still vulnerable to browsing or there was no point planting them.

I feel sure you can’t have been to a huge Sitka plantation and seen much wildlife?
There’s a lot of forestry commission round here and you walk through the fir plantations to deafening silence. Go to broad leaf and there are so many birds, insects, everything.
Planting crappy pine woods that you intend to harvest anyway is not rewilding or managing by any state of mind.

 

[cobgoblin]

It would seem farmers are not too happy with wild boar in Scotland...

Farmers in Scotland see wild boar pulling apart and eating sheep

The population of wild boar in Scotland is damaging livestock and land, say farmers.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Burnttoast]

I feel sure you can’t have been to a huge Sitka plantation and seen much wildlife?
There’s a lot of forestry commission round here and you walk through the fir plantations to deafening silence. Go to broad leaf and there are so many birds, insects, everything.
Planting crappy pine woods that you intend to harvest anyway is not rewilding or managing by any state of mind.

The rewilding projects are not planting Sitka and are not forestry.

 

[Parrotperson]

I know that. I was responding to this sweeping statement:


Leaving something unmown isn’t rewilding it’s just leaving it unkempt!

Sorry. Was just having a conversation. Didn’t mean to annoy.

 

[Burnttoast]

Sorry. Was just having a conversation. Didn’t mean to annoy.

Also sorry, am feeling a bit sensitive atm owing to complete lack of invertebrates around me and watching people carry on as normal in their gardens etc. I'm trying to encourage numbers of the only butterflies I have at the field and that means definitely no mowing (or grazing in fact) until the grass-eating caterpillars are putating.

 

[Parrotperson]

Also sorry, am feeling a bit sensitive atm owing to complete lack of invertebrates around me and watching people carry on as normal in their gardens etc. I'm trying to encourage numbers of the only butterflies I have at the field and that means definitely no mowing (or grazing in fact) until the grass-eating caterpillars are putating.

 

[Goldenstar]

I feel sure you can’t have been to a huge Sitka plantation and seen much wildlife?
There’s a lot of forestry commission round here and you walk through the fir plantations to deafening silence. Go to broad leaf and there are so many birds, insects, everything.
Planting crappy pine woods that you intend to harvest anyway is not rewilding or managing by any state of mind.

And plant building wood we must in large amounts because we can’t outsource everything unpleasant elsewhere .

 

[Clodagh]

The rewilding projects are not planting Sitka and are not forestry.

I know that, I was replying to your reply to Twiggy in which she talked about the forestry planting and you said it helped. Or that’s how I read it.

 

[Burnttoast]

I know that, I was replying to your reply to Twiggy in which she talked about the forestry planting and you said it helped. Or that’s how I read it.

Oh, I thought Twiggy was saying the rewilding projects weren't rewilding, effectively. Of course there are still people planting forestry but we do also need that given how much wood we import.

 

[Goldenstar]

On forestry they do plant more areas of mixed species within commercial woodlands now and without commercial woodlands red squirrels would be in an even more precarious position than they are .
Everything thing is interlinked and complicated and I think it’s inevitable that some early schemes will fail as everything is a learning curve that’s not an excuse for not trying things .
Theres some great content on YouTube particularly good is seeing how quickly straightened streams and rivers develop ecosystems when they are allowed to take a more natural route .